I could be sitting on a toilet and thinking about work, but I don't consider that working. That's just me sitting on a toilet, not thinking about dropping a deuce.
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Smokers get more breaks during their work day than non-smokers...?
- Thread starter Prof.
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Not to mention the risk of getting your brains beat in.
This might be a little to advanced for some employers.
Yes, and they also inhaled noxious fumes, without masks.
Hum, I hate to break it to you, but you called his union lame for following about the same rules as your state law.
Think about it. 4 hour shift, 15 minute breaks. That means you get into work, work for 2 hours, get 15 minutes of break time, then go back to work for 1 hour and 45 minutes. That's actually better than your state law. So I'd say his Union is pretty much in the standards. BTW, here we get no breaks in our provincial law, save for a mandated unpaid lunch period.
As for the OP : Yes, the smokers take more breaks. It doesn't mean the employer likes it, but when the boss is also a smoker and doing the same thing, what are you gonna do ? When you see them get up and go out to freeze their butts off, just go get a coffee and hang around the coffee machine for 5 minutes.
They're also dumping poison into their bodies on a regular basis. They can go ahead and have the extra breaks while I continue to be productive. I often take no breaks at all, aside from a quick trip to the office kitchen and back. I'm too absorbed in what I'm doing. But that's just me. I'm not a clock-watcher.
Those who always clamour for more breaks or some sort of "break parity" with everyone else are suspicious to me anyway. Are you looking forward to being productive and successful, or are you looking forward to taking breaks?
So, others disagree, but for me it's still the same.
If I have to come up with a clever idea for a direct mail, or a folder, or a print ad or something like that, it doesn't matter where I have this idea, be it smoking or taking a dump.
In fact I often have the best ideas when I'm away from my desk, not staring at a blank Illustrator/InDesign document or a sheet of paper.
If I have to come up with a clever idea for a direct mail, or a folder, or a print ad or something like that, it doesn't matter where I have this idea, be it smoking or taking a dump.
In fact I often have the best ideas when I'm away from my desk, not staring at a blank Illustrator/InDesign document or a sheet of paper.
This. Ive always found the ones focusing on others at work are the ones who are not working while they look like they are. The fact is some sit at a desk for 8 hours and dont do anything.
There are a lot of places that schedule you for, let's say, six-and-a-half hours then give you thirty mins of unpaid breaks. So they're still getting a full work day (six hours) out of you. When I work eight hours, I get two paid fifteen minute breaks and one unpaid thirty minute break. So in reality, I'm only working seven hours.
I'm a cashier at a grocery store, my register is next to the door. I see almost everyone that enters and exits the store. I work my ass off while I'm working, I just happen to be extremely observant, and it doesn't affect my work ability.
I've never asked my smoking co-workers if they are billing a client for the time they are outside smoking. They shouldn't, nor should they be charging the employer for it. In any office situation I've worked in, you get one break, to eat lunch. Some people claim to "work through lunch" but I maintain it's impossible to work as efficiently while managing a bite and a drink every 30 seconds or so.
To preface, I'm not a smoker, I think it's a disgusting habit, but my mother does smoke, and as such I've seen her take a lot of crap from random people because of it, when it's none of their concern that she smokes (like people complaining about her smoking in the smoking section of a restaurant, or people at work complaining about being close to her desk because they "might get cancer from the smoke smell on her clothes").
I don't think smokers should get more breaks than non-smokers, unless they offset the extra breaks with longer shifts. Where I work (I'm a cook a walk up restaurant), everyone gets a 5 minute break every hour, or time can be saved and combined. The smokers tend to take their break every hour, and the non smokers like me tend to take a 10 minute break every two hours. Because of that some people have complained that smokers get more breaks which is totally untrue, and just a symptom of people needing to moan about something. If smokers are getting more breaks (and it is sanctioned by management) complain about it, but if management hasn't given the smoker explicit permission to take extra breaks, mind your own business knowing that they aren't sticking to the honor system. It doesn't hurt you if they take more breaks.
Agreed. It sounds like you just want something to complain about to be honest. What others do isn't any of your concern as long as it doesn't directly impact you. From what you've described the smokers aren't hurting any other employees by taking extra breaks.
Not hiring someone or firing them because they smoke is total crap. As long as smoking does not impede their job performance they should not be penalized for smoking. Your claim about more productive workers being non smokers is total bs. Where I work, most of the smokers work their asses off, and can turn out twice as many burgers as some of the lazy non smokers who are clock watchers. Sure there are lazy smokers, but they are proportionally equal to the lazy non-smokers at least in my place of work. Someone's work ethic does not have anything to do with smoking. The insurance argument is valid in some cases, but in most, if not all, cases smokers are charged a substantially higher insurance premium than non-smokers; with that in mind, I would say that smokers really don't affect the insurance premiums of those who do not smoke.
Do you realize how bigoted you sound? My mother who is a two pack a day smoker, has not taken a sick day in over a decade (the last time she called in sick was when I was 7 and was home sick and she was unable to find a sitter on short notice); while there are some people in her office who don't smoke and call in multiple times a month. As for disgruntled coworkers, they just need to get over themselves and focus on their work instead of the personal decisions of those around them. I bet you're the kind of person who would harass a smoker on the street because walking through their smoke might give you cancer one day. Get over yourself, you're not any better than a smoker because you don't smoke, you do however whine about other people's personal decisions more than any smoker I've ever met, which makes you a worse person than any of them imo. People who whine about things that don't hurt or impact them in anyway are a PITA.
dis·crim·i·na·tion
[dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1.
an act or instance of discriminating.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3.
the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4.
Archaic . something that serves to differentiate.
-Don
I don't think smokers should get more breaks than non-smokers, unless they offset the extra breaks with longer shifts. Where I work (I'm a cook a walk up restaurant), everyone gets a 5 minute break every hour, or time can be saved and combined. The smokers tend to take their break every hour, and the non smokers like me tend to take a 10 minute break every two hours. Because of that some people have complained that smokers get more breaks which is totally untrue, and just a symptom of people needing to moan about something. If smokers are getting more breaks (and it is sanctioned by management) complain about it, but if management hasn't given the smoker explicit permission to take extra breaks, mind your own business knowing that they aren't sticking to the honor system. It doesn't hurt you if they take more breaks.
Agreed. It sounds like you just want something to complain about to be honest. What others do isn't any of your concern as long as it doesn't directly impact you. From what you've described the smokers aren't hurting any other employees by taking extra breaks.
Not hiring someone or firing them because they smoke is total crap. As long as smoking does not impede their job performance they should not be penalized for smoking. Your claim about more productive workers being non smokers is total bs. Where I work, most of the smokers work their asses off, and can turn out twice as many burgers as some of the lazy non smokers who are clock watchers. Sure there are lazy smokers, but they are proportionally equal to the lazy non-smokers at least in my place of work. Someone's work ethic does not have anything to do with smoking. The insurance argument is valid in some cases, but in most, if not all, cases smokers are charged a substantially higher insurance premium than non-smokers; with that in mind, I would say that smokers really don't affect the insurance premiums of those who do not smoke.
Do you realize how bigoted you sound? My mother who is a two pack a day smoker, has not taken a sick day in over a decade (the last time she called in sick was when I was 7 and was home sick and she was unable to find a sitter on short notice); while there are some people in her office who don't smoke and call in multiple times a month. As for disgruntled coworkers, they just need to get over themselves and focus on their work instead of the personal decisions of those around them. I bet you're the kind of person who would harass a smoker on the street because walking through their smoke might give you cancer one day. Get over yourself, you're not any better than a smoker because you don't smoke, you do however whine about other people's personal decisions more than any smoker I've ever met, which makes you a worse person than any of them imo. People who whine about things that don't hurt or impact them in anyway are a PITA.
Um yes it is. See definition number two. I'd say not hiring someone because they smoke is "making a distinction in favor of or against, a person based the on group, class or category to which that person belongs rather than on individual merit." Employers are able to get away with not hiring smokers because society in general scorns and looks down upon smokers. Not hiring someone because they smoke is exactly the same as not hiring someone because they are black, Jewish, gay, short, fat, or old.
dis·crim·i·na·tion
[dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn]
noun
1.
an act or instance of discriminating.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3.
the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4.
Archaic . something that serves to differentiate.
-Don
Yup. I was a smoker for 15 years, and have been an occasional one for the past 7 or so. I have never taken a sick day in my life. In fact, except for a few runny noses, I haven't even been sick in a long, long time. The last time I remember actually being "sick" was over a decade ago.
And as for the productivity clause from eawmp1...I will take anyone in my line of work on any day. At one job, I do in a day and a half what takes the others almost FOUR DAYS. And the guy in charge says my work is much better by far (and I know it is). I also spend a lot of my time there just hanging and talking to the manager, while the others spend the whole time working. I'm the only one who's been a smoker. In this case, I've actually worked myself out of extra days on the job...they get more days of pay because they are slower and less productive. I actually save the company money by not needing as many days to complete a task. And all this while being a lazy smoker.
Moral of the story...if I'm much more productive than they, I deserve the extra breaks. It's their fault for not being better at their job.
I had no idea smokers were all such hardworking, glowing, inhumanly healthy people. When I used to go to college and university with smokers they were usually the ones who took more breaks for smoking, had colds more frequently, stunk out the labs and made walking through the entrance a very smelly (and uncomfortable) affair indeed especially for someone with asthma.
My employer is self-insured when it comes to our health plan. That means the premium we pay is directly related to the health of the employees.
That also means I'm totally okay with them discouraging employees from smoking. We don't refuse to hire smokers (yet) but of the 500 people that work in the building, I only see a very small number in the break area out back smoking so I'd say we're doing something proactive.
And I say that as someone who only quit smoking 6 years ago after 30 years of 1 or 2 packs a day.
Now let's go after the people who let themselves get so fat they need a Hoveround motorized wheelchair by the time they're 60. Time to start being accountable for our own actions.
That also means I'm totally okay with them discouraging employees from smoking. We don't refuse to hire smokers (yet) but of the 500 people that work in the building, I only see a very small number in the break area out back smoking so I'd say we're doing something proactive.
And I say that as someone who only quit smoking 6 years ago after 30 years of 1 or 2 packs a day.
Now let's go after the people who let themselves get so fat they need a Hoveround motorized wheelchair by the time they're 60. Time to start being accountable for our own actions.
I agree with this and I smoked until this year. It is a bad habit which unfortunately distracts them from pretty much anything so they can get their fix and is very unhealthy.
There are lots of things in this world that are bad for your health. Many of them would affect job performance. The attitude towards smokers seems so fierce, and yet people who eat crap foods don't get the same vilification in this conversation? Do all the people here who complain about smokers have a really healthy diet? I hope so. Heart disease is as big a killer as anything else, and that includes smoking. That means more sick days for these people, and more than likely, lower general job performance due to poorer health.
I usually don't respond to petty ad hominem attacks (you might want to read the forum rules on this), but this was too good to pass up. I get it, you love your mother. If you would spend as much time and energy helping her kick her costly addiction as you do defending/enabling it she might be an ex-smoker.
For all those who provide anecdotal evidence that they are/know hardworking smokers, great...but your experience doesn't jibe with most researche published on this issue.
For all those deflecting the issue by pointing out bad dietary choices or obesity as an issue, it is, but in term of health cost to society, nothing beats the tobacco. And this argument has nothing to do with the OP's concern about extra breaks (don't see to many people stepping out for Twinkie breaks).
And Dmac77, I too have a parent who smoked. You don't have a monopoly on experience. And don't you dare project upon me your defensive vitriol. You have no idea about the "kind of person" I am.
Indeed, there are plenty of smokers who are gross, nasty people. There are also plenty of non-smokers who are gross, nasty people. There are also plenty of smokers out there who aren't gross, nasty people. I smoked for a whole year before any of my friends realized I did. Why? Because I don't stew in the smoke (because that's nasty) and always had some sort of drink while I was smoking to help "wash out" the stench in my mouth. It seems to help...I can't imagine smoking without a liquid backup. I do wish more smokers took the courtesy to blow their smoke away instead of stewing right in it, and thus wouldn't smell like an ashtray. I do NOT like those people. I did everything I could to not smell like smoke. I also always tried to put my butt in a can rather than throwing it on the ground, and would actively not puff while someone was walking by, especially if they had children with them.
But in the same sense, I wish some of the people I work with would take a shower more often, so they didn't reek of BO. Or eat different food so they don't gas out the place as often. Or wear different perfume so I don't choke. Or...or...or....it can go on an on. It's just another way for people to be annoying.
But back on topic with the breaks...you probably wouldn't even know if one of your coworkers was sitting at his computer on Facebook or YouTube half the day instead of working unless you were watching him. So who knows...maybe that person you think spends all his time at his desk is actually doing nothing, while the smoker is out responding to emails on his blackberry. Stop judging.
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Oh believe me, I know exactly what kind of person you are. You clearly stated that "smokers are PITA." You did not say "some smokers are a PITA," or "the smokers I know are a PITA." Instead you decided that you could project your view of smokers you know or think you know on to all smokers. What you did is exactly the same as saying, all Hispanics are illegal immigrants. And where is this "research" which you cited. Put up or (to be pc and to make sure I don't hurt your feelings) be quite.
Also don't you dare assume I support my mother's decision to smoke. I have tried many times to get her to quit, but after numerous failed attempts, I have realized that she is intelligent enough to make her own choices and decisions. Just because I call people like you out who think they are better than everyone else because they don't smoke or because they belittle those subhuman creatures that light up does not make me an enabler; it just makes me someone who stands up for people who deal with crap from people like you who think you are better than all around you.
Finally I did not ever state that I am the only person who has a parent who smokes; I'd like you to show me where I said that, and if you can't I suggest you think before you post, which you obviously failed to do here.
-Don
P.S. I'm not directing this to anyone in particular, but everyone who posts in this thread should seriously consider the phrase "There's nothing as pure as a reformed w***e."
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