Snow Leopard Bug Responsible for Loss of User Data Gaining Notice

[VenusianSky]

Why is everyone and their mother voting this negative? The fact that it's gaining notice should mean a greater likelihood of it being fixed (faster)!

Maybe because it has a negative impact to your data?

To be honest, I don't even know what the rating represents. Is it based on how well-written and accurate the information is, like a rating on the author? Or, is it based on importance and how relative the content is to the reader? Or, is it a rating on the subject of the content (example: How every Microsoft-based article scores mostly negatives regardless of the content)?
Or, is a combination of all of these?

 

[Eminemdrdre00]

So this is what Apple meant when they told me I would get about 6-10GB of hard drive space back?

 

[mach1andy]

This happened to me.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/791110/

I flipped open my macbook (running 10.6.1) yesterday, went to sign in as a guest and i got the spinning pinwheel. It eventually went back to the login screen for both my username and the guest account. When I entered my username's password it took me to a "guest" looking account and all of my data was gone. The user->desktop folder showed 0Kb, iTunes, Safari, iPhoto are completely empty -- yet when i navigate to the folders under 'macintosh', I see all of the files (minus my entire desktop).

Has this happened to anyone? Any suggestions? I tried giving her the old "APPLE + OPT + P + R" and took out the battery for a bit but to no avail. Completely puzzled & on vacation. Gnarly feeling.

 

[flopticalcube]

Maybe because it has a negative impact to your data?

To be honest, I don't even know what the rating represents. Is it based on how well-written and accurate the information is, like a rating on the author? Or, is it based on importance and how relative the content is to the reader? Or, is it a rating on the subject of the content (example: How every Microsoft-based article scores mostly negatives regardless of the content)?
Or, is a combination of all of these?

The ratings mean absolutely nothing:

https://macrumors.zendesk.com/hc/en...nd_negative_ratings_on_the_front_page_mean.3F

What do the positive and negative ratings on the front page mean?

They mean different things to different people. A positive rating can be a vote of confidence that a rumor is true, a belief that a product announcement is a positive development, happiness with the performance of a software update, and so on. A negative vote could have just as many different meanings. Even the most positive news can get some negative votes; that's fine, everyone has an opinion.
Note that the vote counts you see are not updated instantly when you vote. The display is cached for performance reasons, since we have a large volume of site traffic. Your vote was counted and the number will be updated within minutes.

 

[MacFly123]

No problems here whatsoever. Time Machine works great, no data issues.

Ya well, I have Snow Leopard and a Time Capsule as well, but this coupled with reports of failing Time Capsules = REALLY REALLY BAD!!!

I have been worried about my Time Capsule as it is getting about a year old which is when they are starting to fail. I have all my DVDs ripped on it and if I lost those I would literally lose hundreds of hours of work!!! GET ON THE BALL APPLE!

Anyone know if 10.6.2 is addressing this?

 

[3D0G]

Maybe because it has a negative impact to your data?

To be honest, I don't even know what the rating represents. Is it based on how well-written and accurate the information is, like a rating on the author? Or, is it based on importance and how relative the content is to the reader? Or, is it a rating on the subject of the content (example: How every Microsoft-based article scores mostly negatives regardless of the content)?
Or, is a combination of all of these?

I was similarly puzzled about what these ratings mean, but a while ago I came across the following on the MacRumors FAQ page:

"They mean different things to different people. A positive rating can be a vote of confidence that a rumor is true, a belief that a product announcement is a positive development, happiness with the performance of a software update, and so on. A negative vote could have just as many different meanings. Even the most positive news can get some negative votes; that's fine, everyone has an opinion."

So, I've pretty much stopped looking at the ratings, since, with an overly broad definition, they seem pretty meaningless.

 

[BongoBanger]

This is an awkward one for Apple - it has a low likelihood, high severity kind of impact which isn't good.

Best get it fixed as soon as possible.

 

[zacman]

Apple even advertised that you get 6-10GB HDD space back with Slow Leopard, didn't they? So it's not a bug but a feature obviously.

 

[calderone]

Would you mind trying to recreate the issue to confirm that a clean install does not cause this bug? If not, your comment was useless.

I know reading is tough...

"One suggestion for preventing data deletion is for users who had Guest accounts enabled under Leopard and then upgraded to Snow Leopard to disable the Guest account and then reenable it. This results in fresh Guest account settings created under Snow Leopard, reportedly eliminating the problem."

If this fixes the problem, the fix suggests that this is only a problem for those who brought a guest account from Leopard. WHich means it would not exist in a clean install.

Of course we don't have all the information yet, but it seems from this that a clean install would not have this problem.

Try reading before saying someone's comment is "useless."

 

[Amdahl]

This is not the only data loss, SL is also causing data loss by means of USB and FireWire External drives. What I don't understand is why this is taking apple so long to address this issue. ITS a BIG DEAL

Don't worry, they'll fix it before SL comes out of beta.

I've been dismissing a lot of the SL bug complaints as rare cases to be expected in any release, but this one is making me seriously pause to think what other problems can be lurking under the covers. Believe me, I don't like saying this--I've been a big Apple fan since the Apple II.

Steve has no one to blame but himself. SL was clearly not ready to ship, and they just rushed it out the door because they needed to beat Windows 7's hype machine.

Of course, if you install an OS FOLLOWING MANUFACTURERS INSTRUCTIONS which did not include a CLEAN INSTALL option (but pretty much you had to do it yourself with disc utility) AND this install corrupts your computer and you lose all your data, IT'S YOUR FAULT.
Amazing. Just amazing.

When an Apple product fails to impress, it is always due to operator error.

 

[nullx86]

I havent had any data loss yet, but I am going back to Leopard tonight, too many bugs with SL for it to be safe... Maybe when 10.6.3 comes out, ill come back...

 

[knightlie]

Grasping at straws now? Yeah, the potential for the *latest* backups to be empty (assuming a backup completes after the data loss) is there, but unless you are using a tiny backup drive with only marginal room for a day or three of backups (instead of the weeks/months that is easy with Time Machine and a large backup drive) then there's nothing to worry about.

I don't think he's grasping at straws at all. I've just gone into Time Machine to find that it's not backing up the VMWare Fusion virtual machine I'm working on. So while I'm backing up my project separately, I would have to recreate the VM from scratch in case of a failure. Time Machine is, in this specific case, useless, regardless of my relying on it in ignorant bliss.

Either way, this fault is pretty unforgivable, if it's true. I'm just glad I don't use the Guest account for anything.

 

[commander.data]

anoter reason not to do upgrade.

I thought Apple is actually pointing users away from clean installs, by hiding the clean install option and defaulting to upgrade in Snow Leopard. In which case, Apple is basically bringing this on themselves. If they are encouraging people to do an upgrade install, they should at least thoroughly test the common cases, which having a Guest account seems reasonable.

It's true that users should have a backup and Time Machine makes things easy, but that doesn't excuse Apple from having a major OS data loss flaw. Unless Apple starts advertising Time Machine as a method to avoid data loss caused first-party functionality of the OS.

 

[knightlie]

Where are the Apple fanbois? I'm curious to know what they are going to say this time... Vista might have been a mess, but nobody lost their data...
Let's see... Maybe they tell us taht is good because Apple let us free some space in our HD... Or, wait, encourage us to get new friends or listen to new music by deleting all our previous pictures and music... Or just wants you to find a new way of doing your work, by deleting all that you have previously done...
Apple: always working for you!.

Actually, as someone who has lost all data from a Windows failure, I can safely ask you to take your boring trolling elsewhere.

 

[gerrynjr]

Just had this happen to me last week on my macbook pro... wasnt fun but not a big deal for me.
(This was on a clean install)
Anything local on my laptop that is needed is synced to my desktop. Thankfully, the desktop never had guest account enabled.

I do look forward to a fix for this very odd bug though.

 

[MH01]

Using the Guest account is extremely rare. You probably wouldn't find anyone doing beta testing on such an account. Whatever was changed in the code for that function was probably believed insignificant, so it wasn't thoroughly tested.

The article mentions a thread that contains 45 posts, most of which aren't from people with this problem, who claim an occasional issue with something that only occurs in a particular method, sometimes but not always. This bug in Snow Leopard is apparently not easy to reproduce, and will not even work on a clean install. So if you were planning on buying a new Mac, this wouldn't even affect you.

It helps to maintain the proper perspective on the issue.

I see your point, but do you have stats in support that Guest accounts are extremely rare? Alot of public places i go to that have macs tend to use them. We use them on all our video editing mac at work. Guest accounts are a good idea, the problem is that the people who get screwed by this are current mac owners and above average users, in other words people who have been useing macs for a long time. Though i agree that a average user would not use a guest account, but people who have data they want to protect on thier account may very well setup a guest account on their computer.

Anything around accounts should always be tested.

The issue here is that SL was rushed to beat windows 7 out the door. A shame really.

 

[Blair230]

Has anyone who had Data loss chimed in on this forum? If so, what happened?

I just find it strange that with such a HUGE glaring issue it is not all over the news nor anywhere else...

If the issue exists, it definitely needs to be addressed. I just figured there would be more about it (and not just on the occasional forum on the internets)

 

[Val-kyrie]

I don't think he's grasping at straws at all. I've just gone into Time Machine to find that it's not backing up the VMWare Fusion virtual machine I'm working on. So while I'm backing up my project separately, I would have to recreate the VM from scratch in case of a failure. Time Machine is, in this specific case, useless, regardless of my relying on it in ignorant bliss.

Either way, this fault is pretty unforgivable, if it's true. I'm just glad I don't use the Guest account for anything.

As a tip: TM only backs up a VM properly if the VM is not in use. This has been covered in VMWare's forums where users have been unable to restore VMs which have been backed up while in use. For this reason, I exclude my VMs from TM and include them only from time to time when I do a manual backup with TM.

 

[zorinlynx]

This should be a wakeup call to ALL to make sure your backups are current, complete and accessible.

Yes, ALL THREE. There are many cases where one of those requirements is not met for whatever reason, making your backups mostly useless.

 

[Doctor Q]

I log in and my data is gone. My backup is corrupt. I send my Mac to a data recovery service and they can't get my files back.

Then I wake up screaming.

Seriously, this type of a bug is the stuff of nightmares for Apple and its customers.

 

[MH01]

See my earlier comment about lack of pity for those who don't backup.

Data loss happens, either through virus' or situations like this. Just last night at Thanksgiving dinner I listened to a family member reminisce about 2 years of lost digital photos that were cooked when their XP machine was trashed by a virus. I reitterated the absolute necesity of backups to her and she's picking up an external drive this week.

Based on my observations Apple has at least made backups stupid easy and have advertised Time Machine enough that the average OS X user should know about it, and sheesh, it can't possibly be any easier to use.

Therefore, I come full circle about having little pity for those without backups. Even if money is tight you can get a used 500gig external USB drive for $30 or $40 and it'll do the job.

hmmm the major causes of data loss are not viruses or OS upgrades, these are the most rare occurances. Most common are user stuff ups and HD failures.

Did you even think of using recovery software to get the loss data back for your family?? What probably happened was that the virus trashed XP, and your family member did a fresh install formating the HD, i am very confident that their pictures could have been recovered.

I also hope you realize that backups do not recover 100% of your data, unless you are anal retentive in doing a backup every 30 min. If you do a weekly backup, and say your HD fails 5 days after, you have just kissed away 5 days of data.

 

[kupua]

Care to detail your allegations? I personally use a USB drive as an emergency boot drive and I haven't seen any issues like you describe. I also have two different Firewire drives attached (500GB FW400 and 1TB FW800) with no data losses. If any place, the corruption I'm finding is in the SATA internal drive.

Thus far you might consider your self lucky... but watch out.... big drives you listed...

10.6 changed Firewire and, possibly, USB. Lots of people with lots of issues. My external burner will no longer work with FW (will with USB). Lots of others with similar problems, so it's not just me.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2146924&start=30&tstart=0

 

[avidmacuser]

I'd like to hear back from all those people that strongly suggested the idea of upgrading to SN sooner than later so I could take advantage of all the new features and streamlining immediately. Surely they were not thinking that taking the time for the dust to settle to see if any such posts that say 'Snow Leopard Bug Responsible for Loss of User Data Gaining Notice' among other interesting issues people are having, would be a good idea before 'upgrading'. Perhaps they were not considering that valuable data loss may be at the top end of some people's worst expectations of what might happen this early in the Snow Leopard story. Perhaps they were so filled with excitement and anticipation of the hype, they forgot the reality of what first point releases mean. After all we can not compare it with, say, the automotive industry as an analogy. Because if we did, we might find that it of course is ridiculous to consider releasing a car or truck to the public where the automatic windows or (comparative to data loss in this case) transmission have yet to be assembled correctly.

Look at all these problems people are having! Some of them certainly more serious than others. For all those people that will reply with 'I'm not having any problems' - Yes yes, thats excellent for you... perhaps is only hundreds or thousands among millions, more or less - It matters only from the perspective of anyone involved right? - be it the end user experiencing the problems, or the developer taking bad reps that may arise from these kinds of issues - worse if they are widespread and many... Though I am truly happy for anyone without any major problems with Snow Leopard... and certainly feel bad for those (of us) that are experiencing them.

Lets hope that 10.6.2 will iron out 'most' of the wrinkles.

 

[*LTD*]

It seems this problem does not happen on Snow Leopard (upgraded from Leopard) upon enabling guest log-in, which suggests one possibility could be some Snow Leopard incompatibility with how the guest log-in was initially enabled. If you had it enabled in Leopard before upgrading and the problem happened without any changes to the guest account settings, then it could be from an incompatible setting between how Leopard and Snow Leopard handle the guest accounts. As such, try going to the Accounts system preferences and toggling the guest log-in setting to see if that refreshes the way the system is handling the guest account.

 

[MH01]

Has anyone who had Data loss chimed in on this forum? If so, what happened?

I just find it strange that with such a HUGE glaring issue it is not all over the news nor anywhere else...

If the issue exists, it definitely needs to be addressed. I just figured there would be more about it (and not just on the occasional forum on the internets)

It would have taken quite a while for people to realize that the data loss was related to having a guest account during an upgrade. And as LTD has pointed out, your average user does not use guest accounts. If it has made this site it means that it is an issue. Macrumors is good with the stuff that they publish.