Snow Leopard H.264 Hardware Acceleration and OpenCL Requirements

[*LTD*]

Too bad the 8600M GT isn't getting h.264 acceleration, but honestly, my MBP has never had any stuttering issues with playback anyway. I could see it being useful if you're running multiple simultaneous window instances of HD video, but I've never done it.

I'm thrilled that it's supporting OpenCL though. I just hope that using the GPU more often for computational tasks doesn't mean the supposedly fail-happy 8600M GT will fry itself all the faster.

The 8600M GT should handle h.264/1080p without any issues whatsoever.

And there's a recent firmware update that fixes previous issues. So your 8600M GT should be able to take a full load like a man.

I know that last part sounded odd, but you know what I mean.

 

[FrerkLovesApple]

Yarg, no support for the Radeon HD 2600 Pro?! This is in a previous-generation Intel iMac... sigh.

This is very disappointing. I hoped it would be supported, as I have an iMac with it. Please change this Apple!

 

[commander.data]

Wow. Lots of peeved peoples.

My vid card in my 2007 iMac is not listed, but what will that mean in real life terms? I don't do any video encoding - so that 264 thing doesn't affect me, right?
What will I be missing by not having Open CL? Anybody know what this will really mean

Rich

Well just from a high-level marketing standpoint, even Apple says there are already few big-name new features in Snow Leopard, but now it seems that 2 of those few features, OpenCL and H.264 acceleration, are only accessible to a smaller number of Mac users. That's not to say there aren't other features that make Snow Leopard worthwhile, but it's becoming increasingly clear that the $29 price tag is a good idea.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

It's probably a good idea that people give Apple feedback on the lack of H.264 acceleration support for most GPUs. OpenCL might be due to hardware limitations since the spec was finalized after the pre-HD4xxx GPUs were released, but H.264 has clearly been marketed for all GPUs since the nVidia 7xxx and ATI X1xxx series so the hardware is most decidedly present. Maybe like Firewire on the 13" MacBook, Apple can fix this before Snow Leopard launches.

 

[donbadman]

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1900/specs.html

Again partial H.264 acceleration was available in the nVidia 7xxx and ATI X1xxx series back in 2005. Full H.264 acceleration has been available since the HD2xxx and nVidia 8xxx series. The 8600M GT has the same video processing engine as the 9400M since they are the same architecture. Apple just chooses not to support it.

Aren't the 8600M GT's the cards with lots of manufacturing problems that Apple will replace if you experience the issues inherent in the chips? If so I'd expect Apple to not list them as supported as they've already stated there are problems with those cards.

As to ATI I've used one once, for about 5 days before swapping it back for an Nvidia card, I use them mostly for 3D animation and to be honest ATI have always been a bit poop for good support in 3D and CAD software. (in my experience)

I've been Nvidia only for GPU's since the first one, the Geforce 256!
Before that it was Voodoo II's in SLI!

 

[Saladinos]

My BlackBook wants to slap Apple for using such crap quality GPUs in their products for so long.

 

[*LTD*]

Aren't the 8600M GT's the cards with lots of manufacturing problems that Apple will replace if you experience the issues inherent in the chips? If so I'd expect Apple to not list them as supported as they've already stated there are problems with those cards.

As to ATI I've used one once, for about 5 days before swapping it back for an Nvidia card, I use them mostly for 3D animation and to be honest ATI have always been a bit poop for good support in 3D and CAD software. (in my experience)

I've been Nvidia only for GPU's since the first one, the Geforce 256!
Before that it was Voodoo II's in SLI!

The issues have been fixed, or rather there was a recent firmware update meant to fix those issues. It modifies the fan speed and timing.

 

[voodoofish]

Confusingly, the GS is referred to by both of those names (Hardware diagnostics shows a GS as a GT with missing pipelines and the card is referred to elsewhere as an 8800M GTS)

So it's not quite clear if it is supported or not. I would be thoroughly surprised if it isn't, however.

i hope so i have the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GS as according to System Profile too

 

[kas23]

And there's a recent firmware update that fixes previous issues. So your 8600M GT should be able to take a full load like a man.

This all depends on what kind of lifestyle your 8600M chooses.

 

[rotlex]

Yarg, no support for the Radeon HD 2600 Pro?! This is in a previous-generation Intel iMac... sigh.

This is extremely aggravating. I have the same card, in a 2.8Ghz iMac. The machine is not even two years old. I fully understand the need to move forward with technology, but this card should at least be able to support open cl. One of the reasons I BUY Mac's is I like to not have to buy new hardware every 6 months.

My big issue here is with applications like Aperture, which I use pretty heavily. It already slows down a bit, and if the next release is even more GPU dependant, and takes advantage of Open CL, I'm screwed.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Whats this? Apple using new software features to make users upgrade their hardware? Sounds like something Microsoft would do

Apple been doing that for years. I don't think it's a "evil genius" plot as much as it is Apple moving the bar and improving overall usability. Technology improvements don't just come in H/W. Think Quartz Extreme, Core Graphics, Motion, even the 64-bit underbelly of SL requires at minimum a C2D chip.

 

[AidenShaw]

It might be deliberately disabled....

The 8600M GT has the same video processing engine as the 9400M since they are the same architecture. Apple just chooses not to support it.

Note that OpenCL (and to a lesser degree video decoding) can make the graphics chipset run hot - as hot as the CPU since in effect that's what it becomes.

Apple may have realized that some of their systems based on mobile parts don't have adequate cooling for the graphics chipset.

They may have chosen to disable certain models that would technically be able to use the acceleration to avoid damage to the machine.

 

[*LTD*]

This all depends on what kind of lifestyle your 8600M chooses.

Not that there's anything wrong with it!

 

[headfuzz]

Oh splendid. The video card in my ~£2k Mac Pro from just over a year ago isn't supported.

I know things have to move forward, but it's still irritating.

That is completely extracting the urine. Especially seeing as Snow Leopard development was already underway then and that's what the internal builds would have been being tested on.

Do you have the option to upgrade your graphics card?

 

[*LTD*]

Oh splendid. The video card in my ~£2k Mac Pro from just over a year ago isn't supported.

I know things have to move forward, but it's still irritating.

Can't you switch out the videocard in Mac Pros? Isn't that one of their selling points?

 

[Supermacguy]

I was really hoping my Radeon 1900xt would be supported. There aren't really any upgrade options for the 2007 Mac Pros, at least not direct from Apple. I really do not want to muck around with flashing PC video cards or such.

 

[rhpenguin]

Reading this thread, I'm glad I realized ages ago that Apple hardware is subpar dead-end hardware (unless you want to spend $3K+ on a machine) with almost zero upgrade options. Not that I need to, but if I wanted, I could go out and have many options ranging from $50 to well over $1K. No waiting on "Big Brother" to let something trickle out, just go to store - buy - install and enjoy

 

[buckyballs]

Aren't the 8600M GT's the cards with lots of manufacturing problems that Apple will replace if you experience the issues inherent in the chips? If so I'd expect Apple to not list them as supported as they've already stated there are problems with those cards.

Firstly, they're supposed to have fixed it.

Secondly, that's their problem not mine. I bought a MBP with an 8600M GT, and if a manufacturing defect has made them decide that they don't want to implement those features, then THEY can fix my laptop. I shouldn't be excluded from a feature because of THEIR mistake.

 

[DELLsFan]

Whats this? Apple using new software features to make users upgrade their hardware? Sounds like something Microsoft would do

What you won't see is a big stonkin' label next to keyboard saying "compatible with Snow Leopard".

You won't need to. Besides, Apple loathes being held accountable for silly hardware compatibility issues like this. It's all part of that holistic, vertically integrated Mac experience, right?

This all depends on what kind of lifestyle your 8600M chooses.

LOL! I dunno about its lifestyle, but I'm thinking my Intel GMA 950 won't be asking, and I won't be telling.

upgrade your GPU, benefit of having a Mac Pro, right?

Right. Now what about those who can't upgrade? Hopefully the list of supported hardware will increase as the geniuses keep geeking and tweaking.

 

[cg0def]

WTF hardware accelerated video decoding only for 9400? Are you sure? Cause that kinda sounds dumb. Why would they pick 9400 only when there are quite a few other cards supported under opencl?

Ok so I looked up some specs and if the hardware acceleration really doesn't work on my last year MBP I'm gonna be really pissed. There is nothing that a 9400 does better than a 8600. In fact they both have the hardware needed for hardware accelerated H.264. I really don't care much if Apple is scared that their firmware patches to the nvidia manufacturing flaw won't hold. I paid exactly what Apple asked for my machine it's still under warranty and I do expect EVERY feature of 10.6 to work on it. And I am pretty sure that I'm not the only one. If Apple really limits the feature to just 9400 this would be an open invitation to hack QuickTime X. But there are still a couple of months so we'll see how that goes.

 

[eXan]

I was really hoping my Radeon 1900xt would be supported. There aren't really any upgrade options for the 2007 Mac Pros, at least not direct from Apple. I really do not want to muck around with flashing PC video cards or such.

Radeon 4870.

 

[chrisPA]

This is extremely aggravating. I have the same card, in a 2.8Ghz iMac. The machine is not even two years old. I fully understand the need to move forward with technology, but this card should at least be able to support open cl. One of the reasons I BUY Mac's is I like to not have to buy new hardware every 6 months.

Not to mention that you can still buy the 2.8Ghz iMac w/ the ATI Radeon HD2600 Pro today in the Apple refurb store! So it's possible you'll still be able to buy an iMac from Apple when Snow Leopard comes out that won't support OpenCL. Doh!

 

[Killyp]

God this makes me very irritated with Apple.

I specifically bought this iMac 8 months ago in order to have a computer which could make use of these 'amazing' new features of Snow Leopard.

I spent all my f•••••g cash on this damn thing and now it turns out it's about as much use as a handbrake on a canoe for running Snow Leopard.

I was going to buy SL, but I don't think I'll bother now. Don't worry Apple, I'm not spending £20 just to save 6GB of space.

 

[Adrian3300]

damn

guess my black book and 2.16Ghz white intel imac or SOL. Maybe my blackbook will break and apple care will replace with a new unibody. They don't even make the black books anymore, right??

 

[giffut]

My ..

... Nvidia 7300GT is running nicely with H.264 hardware decoding support. I think it started with the OSX 10.5.6 based graphics update.

I utilize a Core 2 Duo 1,87Ghz with OSX 10.5.7. Right now it has 30% from 100% CPU cycles (counting both cores) left - and I can run any 1080p trailer from Apples movie page just fine.

 

[thatdarnfish]

This is why I believe new iMacs will come sooner rather than later:

1. Most agree that the 2009 generation iMacs are only a minimal upgrade over the 2008's, as far as specs go.

2. Only the current generation iMacs will be able to utilize OpenCL due to the particular GPU's they use. The 2008 models will not, and therefore be comparatively obsolete.

3. Hence, the only iMac which will be able to utilize the latest OS fully will be six months old (a lifetime in technology terms) by the time SL comes out, and even older, when you consider that they don't differ that much from the 2008's. This is equivalent to buying the first electric car so that it can run without gas... but, in the end, you're stuck buying a car that's 15 years old.

Thus, I'm wagering that Apple will want a new iMac model to coincide with the release of SL that will: a. be the first substantial upgrade to the iMac line in 2 years, and b. allow for two generations of iMacs to fully utilize the new OS, instead of just the most recent (which happens to have rather outdated specs).