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Apple boldly said at the WWDC keynote that SL runs on all Intel Macs, without mentioning a single word that some models would be excluded from OpenCL.

To be fair, SL will run on all Intel Macs. You just will not be able to get 100% of its features. I just bought a 13 inch MBP 2 days ago. And I don't even expect this to be be able to use SL the same way an 8-core Mac Pro would. (but, then again, who am I to complain, I have a new MBP on the way!!)
 
Chill out!

Chill out, everyone! Remember, this is new technology and a 1.0 release. Support for a wider range of chips is certainly possible to follow if not likely even. Apple is probably more concerned about stability and bug fixes right now than adding support to every single type of GPU they have sold in the past 24 months.

And do you honestly believe NVIDIA 9400M will remain the only chip supported in H.264 codecs? That sounds pretty unlikely.
 
OpenCL already working?

Does anyone know if the current build of Snow Leopard (10A380) has OpenCL working already? In other words, can you take advantage of your GPU when encoding in Compressor 3 as of today? Or the app itself needs to be updated to support this?
 
If they there's not a growth in this list to include the 2600pro, or at the very least a simple, unofficial hack to enable support, I'm done buying Apple computers. I'll still use (and pay for) OSX, but I'm not going to keep paying premium prices for poor legacy support and non-upgradable hardware.

If they don't "make this right" my next Mac will be a Hackintosh desktop (my Dell Mini 9 Hackintosh is actually one of the more impressive OSX machines I've used, when viewed at a dollar for dollar level).
There's 2 issues here. Lack of OpenCL support for the HD2xxx and HD3xxx series is a actual hardware issue. It's almost certain that once the Windows OpenCL drivers are released, you'll find that those GPUs aren't even supported for OpenCL in Windows.

H.264 however is available in hardware and not supporting it is difficult to excuse. H.264 acceleration really should be easier to enable than OpenCL anyways.
 
In all seriousness, how likely is it that Apple will go back and add support for a wider range of video cards? I don't want to spend $350 upgrading my video card only to find a couple of months later that Apple added support for my old one...
 
In all seriousness, how likely is it that Apple will go back and add support for a wider range of video cards? I don't want to spend $350 upgrading my video card only to find a couple of months later that Apple added support for my old one...

0%
 
I'm getting more and more tempted to give the iMac to the wife and build me a hackintosh. If it doesn't work well then I'll just slap Windows on it, sell it to a relative, and buy another iMac.
 
I don't think its very likely....

I have 4 iMacs with Radeon HD2600's and am bummed, but I remember my older G5 didn't support Quartz Extreme either back in the day, so I am sure in 2 years I will upgrade my main iMac and by then software will be taking advantage of OpenCL. I am still upgrading to SL on day one :)
 
You try chilling out after blowing £1k on one of these things. £1k last year was a lot more money than it is now.

I bought it after being told it's future proof. Apparently not.

You're machine's performance will not be any worse under Snow Leopard that the current performance so there is really little to complain about. Yeah it's a bummer to be left behind on new features, but that's life. Use your computer be creative and be happy.
 
I'm getting more and more tempted to give the iMac to the wife and build me a hackintosh. If it doesn't work well then I'll just slap Windows on it, sell it to a relative, and buy another iMac.

Do it! Its fun and if you stick to the most compatible hardware you will be just fine! Add an Apple LED display if you want the "Apple feel" I also use an Apple keyboard on mine as well :)

Intel i7 3.20GHz FTW

I still somewhat prefer the iMac's but the i7 Beast (as it is named) can at least get a cheap card to use OpenCL...
EDIT: Never-mind My current card is compatible... BLAH makes me even madder since this was 1/3 price of the iMac :(
 
With what ?

I have a first gen mac pro, no graphic card are available on the apple store for it better than my unsupported X1900XT ...:mad:

I went to the Applestore and bought a 4870 and upgraded my first gen mac. It worked fine.
 
No >HD2400 support is just poor

I bought my first mac in early 2008 with a radeon hd 2400* because i just read these cards support h264 decoding really well. Yeah they do it very well but on windows!
I just realized that nearly every mkv or whatever was decoded in software on my iMac, only the apple mov things took advantage of the GPU.
On windows i can use dxva accerleration, cuda with nvidiai, in the near future ati stream with coreavc and with win7 i can use even OpenCL to accelerate with nearly every newer graphic card on nearly every x86 machine. Isn't it great that you buy a specific product from a specific producer and their specific OS doesnt even support todays basic multimedia things?
And isn't it great you have a grahpics card that is as fast as the new 9400 nvidia onboard **** but isn't supported fully in the new snow leopard even it would be easy to adapt this specific card...
I nearly switched with all my systems to apple but start to regret it. h264 acceleration was the main thing i bought THIS imac and cant even use it till today and probably will never be able to use it because OpenCL becomes the mein decoding interface.
I could pack Win7 on it but than i could have bought a PC for 300bucks :-/

Thanks apple!
 
In addition to being quite enraged by learning that the GPU for which I spent an additional 600+ EUR (8600M GT) isn't going to support hardware h264 decoding (EVEN THOUGH NVIDIA'S 9xxx SERIES IS BASICALLY A RE-BRANDING OF THE 8xxx ONE FROM AN ARCHITECTURE STANDPOINT), I wonder if Apple's implementation of the h264 codec is going to get any improvement. As it stands, it is quite pathetic: no support for high profile AND sub par video quality mean I always have to reboot into Windows to watch movies and anime.
 
I nearly switched with all my systems to apple but start to regret it. h264 acceleration was the main thing i bought THIS imac and cant even use it till today and probably will never be able to use it because OpenCL becomes the mein decoding interface.
I could pack Win7 on it but than i could have bought a PC for 300bucks :-/

I hear you there.... sucks, but if the HW doesn't support it they can't make it... I understand your frustration and have seen many people going the Hackintosh route in the last few years because of things like this.
 
In addition to being quite enraged by learning that the GPU for which I spent an additional 600+ EUR (8600M GT) isn't going to support hardware h264 decoding (EVEN THOUGH NVIDIA'S 9xxx SERIES IS BASICALLY A RE-BRANDING OF THE 8xxx ONE FROM AN ARCHITECTURE STANDPOINT), I wonder if Apple's implementation of the h264 codec is going to get any improvement. As it stands, it is quite pathetic: no support for high profile AND sub par video quality mean I always have to reboot into Windows to watch movies and anime.

Seeing as the 8xxx series are all quite similar, hopefully someone will bring out a patch that will enable it on your mac.
 
I hear you there.... sucks, but if the HW doesn't support it they can't make it... I understand your frustration and have seen many people going the Hackintosh route in the last few years because of things like this.

What hardware limitations? on Windows XP and Vista at leat h264 ist working very well with this card!
You can play an h264 mkv with mediaplayer classic and powerdvd plugins at around 10% cpu load! The same thing with bluerays of course!

On MacOS hardware acceleration for 3rd party players such as VLC, mplayer, plex would only be possible through OpenCL as the software interface to the graphics card.
 
why is the hd2600 left in the dust? is this a hardware-issue?

No it's an apple issue - everyvody needs to buy the latest systems even if the hardware is worse than installed in older Macs...
How should we else break out from the economic crisis? buy buy buy buy....
Or just install Windoze on your Mac; this takes advantage of your GPU...Probably there are some OSX Skins and Themes for Windows out there.....*sigh*
 
Benchmarks required before purchase.

I'm going to fight the urge to succumb to the Apple buzz word, marketing zone and WAIT to purchase the one OpenCL GPU that is available for my 2008 Mac Pro - the ATI Radeon 4870- until I see some benchmarks.

Everything performance related about Snow Leopard and OpenCL, at this point, is theoretical. Have any of you seen OpenCL in action? When will software, that takes advantage of this new spec, be released? Will it speed up the applications I use on a daily basis?

For me, I'm looking at three areas - Logic/Pro Tools, the Adobe Suite, and the generic 3D app (Maya, ZBrush, etc.) When I see some concrete benchmarks focussing on apps in these areas I'll decide if it's worth the $350 for the new GPU.
 
There's 2 issues here. Lack of OpenCL support for the HD2xxx and HD3xxx series is a actual hardware issue. It's almost certain that once the Windows OpenCL drivers are released, you'll find that those GPUs aren't even supported for OpenCL in Windows.

Actually, that's not really true. the HD2000 and HD3000 series cards support the shader 4 pipeline and the generic execution unit design, so they could support OpenCL. Nvidia and AMD will have to provide some driver support to make OpenCL work. It could be AMD's fault.

The one thing I find strange is that they don't mention CPU OpenCL support. You can use OpenCL on the CPU and get pretty good performance boosts, plus you can write code once to process things that will run on both the GPU or the CPU if the GPU is not supported. That would cut down on maintenance. Intel will support OpenCL on the CPU on windows and linux. OpenCL also has a means of handling native code functions with large data sets so you can write and compile CPU specific code and hand it off to OpenCL where it can be sceduled on the CPUS the most efficient way.
 
In theory, the point of using the GPU for H.264 acceleration is that the GPU is more efficient at it than the CPU using less power and generating less heat. So if the cooling system in the MacBook Pro can handle the CPU doing H.264 decoding, it should be able to handle the GPU doing it. H.264 decoding is less strenuous than playing games and likely Core Image acceleration too, both of which Apple supports. Adding H.264 isn't likely to yield a huge jump in potential 8600M GT failures. And 8600M GT failure mechanism isn't heat itself, but heat cycling, so in theory keeping the GPU in use and warm at a stable temperature is better for it.


I'll repeat my earlier response to first-gen Mac Pro options.

http://www.barefeats.com/nehal05.html


Despite Apple not wanting to officially support the HD4870 with first-gen Mac Pros it actually does work since ATI always includes both 32-bit and 64-bit EFI ROMs. I believe 32-bit EFI is required for first-gen Mac Pros. Note this is not the same as OS level 64-bit support so shouldn't affect the first-gen Mac Pro's ability to run 64-bit Snow Leopard. nVidia skimps by only including 64-bit EFI probably to use a smaller ROM chip, meaning only later Mac Pros are supported.

Oh, very useful indeed, thanks. Missed that first time round. So by using the Radeon HD4870 with the 32-Bit EFI, will this then work with the OpenCL technologies etc?

Cheers.
 
No it's an apple issue - everyvody needs to buy the latest systems even if the hardware is worse than installed in older Macs...
How should we else break out from the economic crisis? buy buy buy buy....
Or just install Windoze on your Mac; this takes advantage of your GPU...Probably there are some OSX Skins and Themes for Windows out there.....*sigh*

whatever.

what i don't get is how limited the number of gpus that opencl supports in apple's website. i thought opencl meant open computer language. and not open only for the gpu's listed there. logically, i thought the hd2600 would be automatically supported since it is a fairly recent gpu and it was probably new when the word opencl started being thrown about. why would these opencl engineers or whatever when they were developing this technology make it only compatible to gpu's that at that time didn't exist. not sure if i am asking this question as clearly as i can but does anyone know what i mean? it makes no sense.
 
I'm going to fight the urge to succumb to the Apple buzz word, marketing zone and WAIT to purchase the one OpenCL GPU that is available for my 2008 Mac Pro - the ATI Radeon 4870- until I see some benchmarks.

Everything performance related about Snow Leopard and OpenCL, at this point, is theoretical. Have any of you seen OpenCL in action? When will software, that takes advantage of this new spec, be released? Will it speed up the applications I use on a daily basis?

For me, I'm looking at three areas - Logic/Pro Tools, the Adobe Suite, and the generic 3D app (Maya, ZBrush, etc.) When I see some concrete benchmarks focussing on apps in these areas I'll decide if it's worth the $350 for the new GPU.

I've seen CUDA in action (which is nearly the same as opencl...) while decoding and encoding videos. The performance is very very impressing...
4-5x faster than CPU only; so think what it can bring in standard applications
 
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