Snow Leopard to be Released Unfinished?

[Infrared]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned that SL is nowhere near
where it needs to be for a polished complete release in Sept.

If you compare the state of readiness of publicly available
SL builds now with Windows 7 builds from last spring it seems
remarkable SL could be released a month before Windows 7.

Quicktime X, for example, seems not yet fully done. The fact
that there's an option to install Quicktime 7 side by side with
it is not encouraging.

Then again, Apple's own internal builds may be much further
ahead. If they are, SL could be more ready than we know. But
it would also mean SL would be released without being tested
in any meaningful way. Note that Windows 7 was beta tested by
millions. That's a great way of tracking down those elusive bugs.

So, are we in for an incomplete buggy release? Or am I being
too pessimistic?

Thanks!

 

[iGuardian]

We had the same problem with Leopard, didn't we? 10.5.0 was, truely, a public beta release. It was plauged with bugs, etc. But it was all polished up by 10.5.1, they even changed the GUI.

It's just Apple's way of doing things, I suppose.

 

[MikhailT]

I'm becoming increasingly concerned that SL is nowhere near
where it needs to be for a polished complete release in Sept.

If you compare the state of readiness of publicly available
SL builds now with Windows 7 builds from last spring it seems
remarkable SL could be released a month before Windows 7.

Quicktime X, for example, seems not yet fully done. The fact
that there's an option to install Quicktime 7 side by side with
it is not encouraging.

Then again, Apple's own internal builds may be much further
ahead. If they are, SL could be more ready than we know. But
it would also mean SL would be released without being tested
in any meaningful way. Note that Windows 7 was beta tested by
millions. That's a great way of tracking down those elusive bugs.

So, are we in for an incomplete buggy release? Or am I being
too pessimistic?

Thanks!

There are NO PUBLICLY available builds of Snow Leopard, don't even compare it to W7 public betas which are usually optimized and freshen up for public use.

Apple has a set of qualifications for a final release. If a build has met all of them, it'll be released. If it hasn't met all of it, it'll be delayed. Simple as that. You are not going to be forced to upgrade to it and you can wait till a couple of weeks after the release to see people's opinion on the build. There is no reason for you to buy it on first day.

Majority of people playing with the non-official seeds has stated that it is stable for them, not any worse than Leopard other than a couple of GUI quirks which are probably already fixed by now.

They delayed Leopard a couple of times, so we know they have no problem delaying OS.

As for your comment on QTX, it works perfectly fine for me. The option for QT7 is for certain codecs that QTX itself doesn't have. I have no problem playing QTX with the majority of my files. I never met the requirement of installing QT7 for any file at all. QTX's only missing stuff is a perference pane with customization options which can be added easily by Apple within the next few months. Apple still have 2 full months of development left and considering my opinion that the latest seed update is probably built around mid June, we haven't seen 2-3 weeks of coding either. So SL final release would mean we have 2-3 months of coding yet to be seen. I don't think Apple will spend several months on testing, they'll use the public release to polish up all the remaining issues for 10.6.1. This is within their history of doing so, i mean every 10.x builds had bugs that was usually fixed within months with several system updates.

 

[Infrared]

There are NO PUBLICLY available
builds of Snow Leopard, don't even compare it to W7 public betas which are
usually optimized and freshen up for public use.

There certainly are publicly available builds. I'm not saying Apple
has sanctioned their distribution, nor am I encouraging using them.
But they are out there.

Apple has a set of qualifications for a final release. If a build has
met all of them, it'll be released. If it hasn't met all of it, it'll be delayed.
Simple as that.

Which doesn't mean a lot as far as completeness or bugginess goes.
Leopard shipped with some terrible bugs. The fact is, you can come
up with as many internal criteria as you like, but unless thousands of
people get to test it, you'll miss gigantic bugs.

They delayed Leopard a couple of times, so we know they have
no problem delaying OS.

This time it may be different. Apple must know they are in for a far
sterner test vs the generally well-liked Windows 7. They may want
to get their OS out first. But who knows?

 

[MikhailT]

There certainly are publicly available builds. I'm not saying Apple
has sanctioned their distribution, nor am I encouraging using them.
But they are out there.

Those are private builds developed for seed program members. Private builds are not the same thing as public builds and leaking private builds on the internet does not change that fact.

We have no idea what the SL final build will look like, despite the leaked seeds because internal developers are using builds that are far ahead of the developer seed builds. Things can change in 2 months.

Which doesn't mean a lot as far as completeness or bugginess goes.
Leopard shipped with some terrible bugs. The fact is, you can come
up with as many internal criteria as you like, but unless thousands of
people get to test it, you'll miss gigantic bugs.

That's exactly what I am saying. Apple will release it even with some bugs. That's proven by looking at their history.

This time it may be different. Apple must know they are in for a far
sterner test vs the generally well-liked Windows 7. They may want
to get their OS out first. But who knows?

Windows 7 is already almost done, it is most likely will be finalized within the next few weeks, they are already voting on the RTM builds. MS may release it to the technet members and the press for reviews next month. Long before Oct, 22nd official public release.

If Apple wants to release SL in Sept, they will and damned the bugs, they will fix all of them with an update.

 

[mags631]

There certainly are publicly available builds. I'm not saying Apple
has sanctioned their distribution, nor am I encouraging using them.
But they are out there.

Right, so you read the other part of this point? These builds are not optimized in any way for consumer play. Most importantly, both Windows 7 and SL are in Beta. Some features are done, others are not. What's more, it's a certainty that both Apple and Microsoft will release their software with known and unknown issues.

 

[Infrared]

Those are private builds developed for seed program members. Private builds are not the same thing as public builds and leaking private builds on the internet does not change that fact.

No, you're playing silly word games here. The fact is, pretty much any
member of the public has access to these builds. That makes them
publicly available builds no matter what Apple may choose to call them.
You can't alter the reality of it by slapping on a different name.

Note: I did not use the words "public build". I wrote "publicly available
build". The two are not the same.

 

[mags631]

No, you're playing silly word games here. The fact is, pretty much any
member of the public has access to these builds. That makes them
publicly available builds no matter what Apple may choose to call them.
You can't alter the reality of it by slapping on a different name.

Note: I did not use the words "public build". I wrote "publicly available
build". The two are not the same.

I'm not sure he's the one playing silly word games.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

There certainly are publicly available builds. I'm not saying Apple
has sanctioned their distribution, nor am I encouraging using them.
But they are out there.

Those are intended to be private, so we call them private and not public. Win7 was intended to be public, so we call them public. Microsoft has the financial resources to seed users with Windows 7 and because they want to eradicate Vista. Apple's Leopard is perfectly fine and gaining market dominance by the day.

Stop playing "silly word games". A definition of a dumb person is still a dumb person.

 

[Infrared]

Most importantly, both Windows 7 and SL are in Beta.

Windows 7 reached RC status some time ago.

 

[iGuardian]

Windows 7 reached RC status some time ago.

Actually rumor has it that Build 7264 is the RTM build.

 

[GimmeSlack12]

No, you're playing silly word games here.

Note: I did not use the words "public build". I wrote "publicly available
build". The two are not the same.

If something is willfully presented to the public then it is publicly available. If something private is leaked then the intention for privacy does not change, rather a leak occurred.

Consider the leak of the movie "Wolverine". It had many missing special effects in it, does this mean that the movie critics should watch and judge it in this form? No, because it is not meant for public consumption.

Snow Leopard will be ready. Stop jumping to conclusions.

 

[zmttoxics]

Talk about misguided.

Those "publicly available" snow leopard builds are illegal in anyones hands but registered developers. They are intended for developers to ensure their software works with the new APIs in the new OS X release before the release, NOT for your average joe to torrent and complain about its stability.

 

[stainlessliquid]

Quicktime X needs to be a high priority, that thing is still unusable.

Theres also a lot of little annoyances that they need to pay attention to, like the play button on icons which make the icons play instead of open.

 

[Infrared]

If something is willfully presented to the public then it is publicly available. If something private is leaked then the intention for privacy does not change, rather a leak occurred.

If I intend to be rich, but am in fact poor, I don't call myself "rich".
Whatever the intentions, the word is not accurate.

Whatever Apple's intentions were, you cannot truthfully deny that
there are builds of SL available to the public. That makes the words
"publicly available builds" wholly accurate.

Now that that's settled, may we please move on to the more important
subject of Snow Leopard's readiness?

Thank you.

 

[zmttoxics]

If I intend to be rich, but am in fact poor, I don't call myself "rich".
Whatever the intentions, the word is not accurate.

Whatever Apple's intentions were, you cannot truthfully deny that
there are builds of SL available to the public. That makes the words
"publicly available builds" wholly accurate.

Now that that's settled, may we please move on to the more important
subject of Snow Leopard's readiness?

Thank you.

Only accurate if you add "illegally" in the front there. Get over your self.

 

[OttawaGuy]

Sorry, leaked = private.

 

[uberamd]

If I intend to be rich, but am in fact poor, I don't call myself "rich".
Whatever the intentions, the word is not accurate.

Whatever Apple's intentions were, you cannot truthfully deny that
there are builds of SL available to the public. That makes the words
"publicly available builds" wholly accurate.

Now that that's settled, may we please move on to the more important
subject of Snow Leopard's readiness?

Thank you.

Its not in RC, so what are you talking about? /thread right here.

 

[Infrared]

Its not in RC, so what are you talking about? /thread right here.

So SL isn't in RC? I presume it's SL you're talking about.
Windows 7 was in RC ages ago. And yet, SL is due to be
released before Windows 7 is. How come?

 

[uberamd]

So SL isn't in RC? I presume it's SL you're talking about.
Windows 7 was in RC ages ago. And yet, SL is due to be
released before Windows 7 is. How come?

If you think the "public" version of SL that is out (even though its not public at all, Win 7 IS public, SL is NOT public, but there is no convincing you of that) is the same as what the official OS X dev's had in their hands on the same date, you are more insane than I already think you are.

 

[Tallest Skil]

So SL isn't in RC? I presume it's SL you're talking about.
Windows 7 was in RC ages ago. And yet, SL is due to be
released before Windows 7 is. How come?

Because Apple and Microsoft don't follow the same business practices when it comes to prerelease software?!

Honestly.

When Snow Leopard goes Gold Master in the firstish week of September, then we'll know.

 

[MikhailT]

If I intend to be rich, but am in fact poor, I don't call myself "rich".
Whatever the intentions, the word is not accurate.

Whatever Apple's intentions were, you cannot truthfully deny that
there are builds of SL available to the public. That makes the words
"publicly available builds" wholly accurate.

Now that that's settled, may we please move on to the more important
subject of Snow Leopard's readiness?

Thank you.

Oh, so who died and made you the king? Just because you think it is accurate, doesn't mean it is accurate. It is accurate to you in your mind. You are the only person keeps thinking it is right. Everybody here beside you says differently.

Builds of Snow Leopard are not available to the public, I don't see links to SL being offered to download on Apple.com or any other sites.

Show me where it is offered to the public? Links to TPB or rapidshare are immediately not allowed on any sites and it can get a person banned from those sites because it's encourging copyright infridgement which is illegal. If it is discouraged everywhere, not exactly available to the public is it?

The definition of the public as an adjective:

1. of, pertaining to, or affecting a population or a community as a whole: public funds; a public nuisance. 2. done, made, acting, etc., for the community as a whole: public prosecution. 3. open to all persons: a public meeting. 4. of, pertaining to, or being in the service of a community or nation, esp. as a government officer: a public official. 5. maintained at the public expense and under public control: a public library; a public road. 6. generally known: The fact became public. 7. familiar to the public; prominent: public figures. 8. open to the view of all; existing or conducted in public: a public dispute. 9. pertaining or devoted to the welfare or well-being of the community: public spirit. 10. of or pertaining to all humankind; universal.

If it is being limited to a black market or a subcommunity for illegal file sharing, it is not "publicly available".


Now I am done talking about this because I have provided facts to show that you are wrong and you haven't shown me anything to disprove what I and other people has stated.

 

[miles01110]

This has to be the most retarded thread on MR today. Face it- SL builds are private that just happened to get leaked. Just because someone can acquire it through less-than-legal means doesn't make it "publicly" available.

 

[Infrared]

You are the only person keeps thinking it is right.

That is an assumption, not an established fact.

Everybody here beside you says differently.

And everybody here has spoken? As of now, this thread
has 361 views, yet only contains 21 messages.

Builds of Snow Leopard are not available to the public, I don't see links to SL being offered to download on Apple.com or any other sites.

Show me where it is offered to the public?

I didn't say it was "offered to the public". That's a straw man argument.

Links to TPB or rapidshare are immediately not allowed on any sites

Factually incorrect (the "any"). You would have a stronger
argument if you said "not allowed on many (or most) sites".

and it can get a person banned from those sites because it's encourging copyright infridgement which is illegal. If it is discouraged everywhere, not exactly available to the public is it?

You are so hopelessly confused, it's hard to know where to begin.

You are confusing availability with approval.

Something may be disapproved of by a majority and yet available
to all: widely disapproved of versus publicly available.

People don't have to take advantage of availability for availability to
exist. The fact that I don't want to download SL doesn't mean I could
not do so if I thought otherwise. Understood?

 

[uberamd]

That is an assumption, not an established fact.



And everybody here has spoken? As of now, this thread
has 361 views, yet only contains 21 messages.



I didn't say it was "offered to the public". That's a straw man argument.



Factually incorrect (the "any"). You would have a stronger
argument if you said "not allowed on many (or most) sites".



You are so hopelessly confused, it's hard to know where to begin.

You are confusing availability with approval.

Something may be disapproved of by a majority and yet available
to all: widely disapproved of versus publicly available.

People don't have to take advantage of availability for availability to
exist. The fact that I don't want to download SL doesn't mean I could
not do so if I thought otherwise. Understood?

Its not publicly available, would you just stop already.