Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

So...apparently the four corners is in the wrong place

M

macbookairman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 15, 2008
903
11
Nebraska
Wow...I never would have though the four corners was in the wrong spot!

I'm not sure exactly how popular a tourist spot the four corners is, but I know I have been there, and there were lots of people there. Its crazy to think we weren't actually there.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...r_corners_area_is.html?singlepage=true&cat=16

The Four States of the Four Corners

Colorado, Arizona, Utah and New Mexico are the four states that all border one another in the legendary four corners area. At the very spot where the four corners of the states connect, the Four Corners Monument has been erected. This landmark is for many reasons
Survey Says the Four Corners Area is Not Where You Think
a much sought after tourist location: not only does it show a historic landmark, but it also marks the only spot in the United States where four states actually connect.

The initial marking of this historic spot dates back to 1912, and it is not uncommon to see tourists - national as well as international - having their pictures taken on all fours, ostensibly with their hands and feet in each of the four states that make up the four corners area.

Survey Says: the Four Corners Area is not where you think it is

Today there is news that is bursting the bubble of all those who hoped to show off their body parts being located in Colorado, Arizona, Utah and New Mexico concurrently. Salt Lake City's Deseret News reports that the monument which should have been located at 37 degrees north latitude and 109 degrees west longitude is actually located at 36 59 56.31532 degrees north latitude and 109 02 42.62019 degrees west longitude.

The math bears out that this means that the Four Corners Monument is actually 2.5 miles away from the four corners area where the states in point of fact intersect. There are of course no plans to relocate this marker in order to put it in harmony with the much improved surveying methods of recent decades. Thus, when you go to visit the four corners area after today, you will still visit the monument, although you now know that it is not actually on the exact spot where the four states connect.

The Four Corners Area Monument is Not the Only Tourist Attraction in the Wrong Place

Take for example Vice Admiral Lord Nelson, made famous to Brits and tourists to the UK because of his bravery during the Battle of Trafalgar. He died after being felled on deck of the battle ship Victory, shot by a marksman from the opposing Redoubtable. The ship returned to England and the spot of his taking the bullet was duly marked for posterity. Yet in 2008 -- the Mirror reports -- it came to light that apparently the actual spot on which Lord Nelson received his fatal bullet was a good 25 feet to the right. The British Navy decided to move the memorial spot to adequately mark the authentic memorial spot.

Granted, there is a world of difference between 25 feet and 2.5 miles, but it does cause wonder just how many well known monuments and tourist attractions are really in the wrong place, and how many unsung spots are truly the venues where greatness happened but may now house a trash can or nothing at all.
Click to expand...
 
How boring must your vacation be that it seems worth even a half hour of your vacation time to go visit a random meaningless spot in the middle of the desert?
 
Readings show Four Corners marker off by 2.5 miles

Tourists who want to put a hand or foot in each of four states at the Four Corners area are apparently off the mark — by about 2.5 miles.

According to readings by the National Geodetic Survey, the Four Corners marker showing the intersection of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah is about 2.5 miles west of where it should be.

The only place in the United States where four state boundaries come together was first surveyed by the U.S. government in 1868 during the initial survey of Colorado’s southern boundary line.

The intended location was 109 degrees west longitude and 37 degrees north latitude. But, because of surveying errors, the popular tourist spot is a bit off.

The accurate location would be downhill to the east of U.S. 160 in Colorado and northeast of the San Juan River as it flows out of New Mexico.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/289479.php
 
motulist said:
How boring must your vacation be that it seems worth even a half hour of your vacation time to go visit a random meaningless spot in the middle of the desert?
Click to expand...

Oh, but it is much more than half an hour from anywhere else you'd want to visit, unless you like camping in the middle of nowhere, with no vegetation, no water and a nice summer heat that'll cook you if you stay in it too long :)

I've been past it several times, never once did I get the urge to stop, and I doubt I ever will.
 
I've been once (though I do live in Utah). I went fly-fishing (surprise surprise) on the San Juan river between Farmington, New Mexico and Durango, Colorado; best fishing of my life, but that's another story. We passed through on our way back north to Salt Lake City.

Either way, it's not the type of place to make a vacation out of, but it's sort of novel if you're in the area for something else. Moab is an hour or so north, and there are at least a million recreational opportunities there!

SLC
 
I've always thought it was the stupidest popular national park in the U.S. What could be more boring that geographical lines? It's not like it's an impressive natural or manmade wonder.
 
I live in Colorado and I have only been to the Four Corners Monument only once in my lifetime. I went by there after visting Mesa Verde. This monument is a little marker set in the ground that for some reason makes people want to come and see it. Nothing special. Big deal, I was in four states at the same time. Move on. Nothing to see here. Glad it's not really where they thought it was. Millions of people can now jump off a cliff. :)
 
Don't you just love it when reporters write sensational articles when they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

The enabling legislation creating the State of Colorado says that the western boundary of the state is the 32nd meridian west of the Washington meridian. The Washington Meridian in 1868 was defined at the center of the small dome at the Old Naval Observatory. At the time they believed that to be 77° 2' 48" west of the Prime (Greenwich) meridian. Adding the two numbers the western boundary should be at 109° 2' 48". The latest coordinates for the Four Corners monument are 36 59 56.31570(N) and 109 02 42.62076(W) So, there is only a mismatch of less than 6" in longitude using the correct numbers. That is less than 180 meters. BTW, if the border were to be moved to the "correct" position, Colorado and New Mexico would gain land form Utah and Arizona.

Now consider that several things have changed since 1876. The actual position of the Greewich meridian has be refined and moved accordingly. There have been several refinements and changes to geodetic datums. A major change in the US was the change from the old datum (North American Datum of 1923 and its predessors) which was centered on an arbitrary point in Kansas to an earth mass centered datum. The current National Geodetic Survey earth mass centered datum is the North American Datum of 1983. And of course, surveying techniques are now far more accurate than those of 1876. If those changes are accounted for, I suspect the difference would be even less than the 180 meters state above.
 
The latest discovery was that string theory REQUIRED that all 50 states touch., but scientists were unsure where to place the stupid park. So for now we're stuck with an unimportant, boring three dimensional 4 Corners.
 
Gotta watch out for those old surveys. Apparently the northern border of Washington State and the international border between Canada and the USA don't quite coincide. The state border is about 100 meters south of the international one. IIRC - A smuggler tried to use this fact to claim that the state troopers who arrested him at the border were out of their jurisdiction. The arrest was upheld, on other technical grounds, but the border issue was never disputed.
 
snberk103 said:
Gotta watch out for those old surveys. Apparently the northern border of Washington State and the international border between Canada and the USA don't quite coincide. The state border is about 100 meters south of the international one.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So there is some truth to the dispute between the US and Canada over the island of Moosylvania. Canada claims it's part of the US, the US claims it's part of Canada.:D
 
Well considering it was back in 1912 where Math relied on mental power more than anything (where as today you have Mac Pros that think faster than 1912's Geniuses put together).

It is still a very dam good pinpoint. 2.5 miles is not that off, but its fairly accurate.


Much like the Mayans approaching the actual number of the solar year. They were off only by decimal places. Outstanding considering all they used was simple Math an by observing the sky.
 
Beric said:
What could be more boring that geographical lines? It's not like it's an impressive natural or manmade wonder.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with you. Clearly all these people who visit the North Pole or the South Pole are also fools. It's just a random geographical spot on a flat expanse of snow that stretches for 100 miles. Nothing to see there.

* A friend of mine walked to the North Pole last year. Clearly a fool.
 
RedTomato said:
Completely agree with you. Clearly all these people who visit the North Pole or the South Pole are also fools. It's just a random geographical spot on a flat expanse of snow that stretches for 100 miles. Nothing to see there.

* A friend of mine walked to the North Pole last year. Clearly a fool.
Click to expand...

The North and South pole are actually significant, because they're the magnetic poles of the earth (or former, you might say). Humans have also strived and died to reach them, resulting in important history of those locations. And finally, both the North and South pole are centers of extreme climate, with atypical weather patterns.

None of those things can be said about 4 corners national park, the worst park in the U.S.
 
jav6454 said:
EDIT...Much like the Mayans approaching the actual number of the solar year. They were off only by decimal places. Outstanding considering all they used was simple Math an by observing the sky. /EDIT
Click to expand...

But with the help of Aliens.

Back on topic, similar situation for Basel Airport which many believe is located across two borders (Switzerland and France) but is actually all in France. This doesn't negate the fact the airport is split into 2 parts - one for each nation - with a customs area in the middle of the airport!
 
jav6454 said:
It is still a very dam good pinpoint. 2.5 miles is not that off, but its fairly accurate.
Click to expand...

Shoot, 2.5mi is like almost next door... We shouldn't be surprised that old techniques are off by that much, but we should be surprised it took until now to catch it.

What next? The Washington monument is 2.5 miles from it's actual location? The gateway arch actually looms over Fairmont City, not St. Louis? Oh the ignominy. :D
 
spork183 said:
Shoot, 2.5mi is like almost next door... We shouldn't be surprised that old techniques are off by that much, but we should be surprised it took until now to catch it.

What next? The Washington monument is 2.5 miles from it's actual location? The gateway arch actually looms over Fairmont City, not St. Louis? Oh the ignominy. :D
Click to expand...

I see what you did there....
 
What's most significant about Four Corners is that while it's surrunded by the United States, it's not actually in the US. The four US states actually meet (regardless of the lat/long v. marker issue) in another sovereign nation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back