So...apparently the four corners is in the wrong place

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by macbookairman, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. macbookairman macrumors 6502a

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    #1
    Wow...I never would have though the four corners was in the wrong spot!

    I'm not sure exactly how popular a tourist spot the four corners is, but I know I have been there, and there were lots of people there. Its crazy to think we weren't actually there.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...r_corners_area_is.html?singlepage=true&cat=16

     
  2. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

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    #2
    How boring must your vacation be that it seems worth even a half hour of your vacation time to go visit a random meaningless spot in the middle of the desert?
     
  3. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #3
    Readings show Four Corners marker off by 2.5 miles

    Tourists who want to put a hand or foot in each of four states at the Four Corners area are apparently off the mark — by about 2.5 miles.

    According to readings by the National Geodetic Survey, the Four Corners marker showing the intersection of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah is about 2.5 miles west of where it should be.

    The only place in the United States where four state boundaries come together was first surveyed by the U.S. government in 1868 during the initial survey of Colorado’s southern boundary line.

    The intended location was 109 degrees west longitude and 37 degrees north latitude. But, because of surveying errors, the popular tourist spot is a bit off.

    The accurate location would be downhill to the east of U.S. 160 in Colorado and northeast of the San Juan River as it flows out of New Mexico.
    http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/289479.php
     
  4. LumbermanSVO macrumors 65816

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    #4
    Oh, but it is much more than half an hour from anywhere else you'd want to visit, unless you like camping in the middle of nowhere, with no vegetation, no water and a nice summer heat that'll cook you if you stay in it too long :)

    I've been past it several times, never once did I get the urge to stop, and I doubt I ever will.
     
  5. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #5
    I've been once (though I do live in Utah). I went fly-fishing (surprise surprise) on the San Juan river between Farmington, New Mexico and Durango, Colorado; best fishing of my life, but that's another story. We passed through on our way back north to Salt Lake City.

    Either way, it's not the type of place to make a vacation out of, but it's sort of novel if you're in the area for something else. Moab is an hour or so north, and there are at least a million recreational opportunities there!

    SLC
     
  6. Beric macrumors 68020

    Beric

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    #6
    I've always thought it was the stupidest popular national park in the U.S. What could be more boring that geographical lines? It's not like it's an impressive natural or manmade wonder.
     
  7. hexonxonx macrumors 601

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    #7
    I live in Colorado and I have only been to the Four Corners Monument only once in my lifetime. I went by there after visting Mesa Verde. This monument is a little marker set in the ground that for some reason makes people want to come and see it. Nothing special. Big deal, I was in four states at the same time. Move on. Nothing to see here. Glad it's not really where they thought it was. Millions of people can now jump off a cliff. :)
     
  8. Counterfit macrumors G3

    Counterfit

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    #8
    I would be impressed if they crammed another state in there to make 5 corners, like in the Simpsons.
     
  9. LynnW macrumors member

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    #9
    Don't you just love it when reporters write sensational articles when they don't know what the hell they are talking about.

    The enabling legislation creating the State of Colorado says that the western boundary of the state is the 32nd meridian west of the Washington meridian. The Washington Meridian in 1868 was defined at the center of the small dome at the Old Naval Observatory. At the time they believed that to be 77° 2' 48" west of the Prime (Greenwich) meridian. Adding the two numbers the western boundary should be at 109° 2' 48". The latest coordinates for the Four Corners monument are 36 59 56.31570(N) and 109 02 42.62076(W) So, there is only a mismatch of less than 6" in longitude using the correct numbers. That is less than 180 meters. BTW, if the border were to be moved to the "correct" position, Colorado and New Mexico would gain land form Utah and Arizona.

    Now consider that several things have changed since 1876. The actual position of the Greewich meridian has be refined and moved accordingly. There have been several refinements and changes to geodetic datums. A major change in the US was the change from the old datum (North American Datum of 1923 and its predessors) which was centered on an arbitrary point in Kansas to an earth mass centered datum. The current National Geodetic Survey earth mass centered datum is the North American Datum of 1983. And of course, surveying techniques are now far more accurate than those of 1876. If those changes are accounted for, I suspect the difference would be even less than the 180 meters state above.
     
  10. Les Kern macrumors 68040

    Les Kern

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    #10
    The latest discovery was that string theory REQUIRED that all 50 states touch., but scientists were unsure where to place the stupid park. So for now we're stuck with an unimportant, boring three dimensional 4 Corners.
     
  11. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #11
    Gotta watch out for those old surveys. Apparently the northern border of Washington State and the international border between Canada and the USA don't quite coincide. The state border is about 100 meters south of the international one. IIRC - A smuggler tried to use this fact to claim that the state troopers who arrested him at the border were out of their jurisdiction. The arrest was upheld, on other technical grounds, but the border issue was never disputed.
     
  12. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #12
    Interesting. So there is some truth to the dispute between the US and Canada over the island of Moosylvania. Canada claims it's part of the US, the US claims it's part of Canada.:D
     
  13. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #13
    Well considering it was back in 1912 where Math relied on mental power more than anything (where as today you have Mac Pros that think faster than 1912's Geniuses put together).

    It is still a very dam good pinpoint. 2.5 miles is not that off, but its fairly accurate.


    Much like the Mayans approaching the actual number of the solar year. They were off only by decimal places. Outstanding considering all they used was simple Math an by observing the sky.
     
  14. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

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    #14
    Completely agree with you. Clearly all these people who visit the North Pole or the South Pole are also fools. It's just a random geographical spot on a flat expanse of snow that stretches for 100 miles. Nothing to see there.

    * A friend of mine walked to the North Pole last year. Clearly a fool.
     
  15. Beric macrumors 68020

    Beric

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    #15
    The North and South pole are actually significant, because they're the magnetic poles of the earth (or former, you might say). Humans have also strived and died to reach them, resulting in important history of those locations. And finally, both the North and South pole are centers of extreme climate, with atypical weather patterns.

    None of those things can be said about 4 corners national park, the worst park in the U.S.
     
  16. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Hmm... now I wonder if the area in front of Notre Dame really is kilometer zero!
     
  17. iAlan macrumors 65816

    iAlan

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    #17
    But with the help of Aliens.

    Back on topic, similar situation for Basel Airport which many believe is located across two borders (Switzerland and France) but is actually all in France. This doesn't negate the fact the airport is split into 2 parts - one for each nation - with a customs area in the middle of the airport!
     
  18. spork183 macrumors 6502a

    spork183

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    #18
    Shoot, 2.5mi is like almost next door... We shouldn't be surprised that old techniques are off by that much, but we should be surprised it took until now to catch it.

    What next? The Washington monument is 2.5 miles from it's actual location? The gateway arch actually looms over Fairmont City, not St. Louis? Oh the ignominy. :D
     
  19. Randman macrumors 65816

    Randman

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    #19
    Same with the South Pole. There is the actual South Pole and the ceremonial pole which is a few yards away.
     
  20. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #20
    I see what you did there....
     
  21. JNB macrumors 604

    JNB

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    #21
    What's most significant about Four Corners is that while it's surrunded by the United States, it's not actually in the US. The four US states actually meet (regardless of the lat/long v. marker issue) in another sovereign nation.
     
  22. snberk103 macrumors 603

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    #22
    ???? would you care to elaborate ????
     
  23. JNB macrumors 604

    JNB

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    #23
    The greater monument area is located within (and at the boundary of) the Navajo and Ute Nations. They are both semi-autonomous, indigenous sovereign lands.

    At the Monument itself, there are flagpoles in each quadrant with the respective state and Navajo national flags. Not a US ensign to be found.
     
  24. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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  25. iPhoneNYC macrumors 6502a

    iPhoneNYC

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