So apparently you cannot return gift cards, right?

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
Frustrating afternoon with the phone over here. My parents thought I wanted a Macbook and decided to buy a $500 Apple gift card for my graduation present, to help me reach that goal (very appreciative of that, btw). I do want a Macbook too. I love the operating system and I'm hugely into photography and writing and staying mobile. But they are expensive and offer internals that could be better for the price. For a while now, I've been looking at the HP Envy Touchsmart 15, which offers a 1080p display, fourth gen quad core i7 clocked at 3.2 ghz, 8gb ram, and a nice gtx740m (all for $900). My parents did not know this and now I have a $500 gift card towards something I believe I can save money on by buying the alternative (because, you know, college and money go well together).

Back to the phone thing. I called the Apple store in my area multiple times, waited with that robot guy, and spoke to the so-called "support representatives." As soon as I mentioned "gift card" and "refund" they hung up. Just plain dropped me mid sentence. I called many times and every single time, no matter who it was I spoke to, the representative hung up on me. Bad luck? Don't think so. At the moment, I feel forced to buy a Macbook, which, though it wouldn't be all that bad, is a lot of money for not a lot of stuff. My dad still has the receipt for the card too. Know anybody who has been successful at a refund?

If I did buy a Macbook, it'd be either the 13" $1500 non-retina or the retina one. It's a choice of a better processor or an HD screen/better hard drive. Stuck. Doesn't matter the choice, the HP Envy has WAY better internals and looks nearly as nice (but doesn't have the OS) for $600 less.

Edit: There's also this lenovo for around the same price that has incredible internals. The problem is that it's fat with a large screen, hard to carry, and doesn't have the Mac OS.
 
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fa8362

macrumors 65816
Jul 7, 2008
1,343
54
I've never had any business hang up on me, so I can't help you with that. I do know, however, that if a refund is given, it won't be to you. It will be to your father. So he should call, not you. If he paid by credit card, the credit card company can get the refund easily, even if Apple balks.
 

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
I've never had any business hang up on me, so I can't help you with that. I do know, however, that if a refund is given, it won't be to you. It will be to your father. So he should call, not you. If he paid by credit card, the credit card company can get the refund easily, even if Apple balks.
I understand that the refund would be to my dad. He told me to call Apple to ask about the refund. I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh in the post, was a little angry after getting dropped so many times. I'll ask if he paid with a credit card.
 

appleisking

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2013
658
2,090
I've never had any business hang up on me, so I can't help you with that. I do know, however, that if a refund is given, it won't be to you. It will be to your father. So he should call, not you. If he paid by credit card, the credit card company can get the refund easily, even if Apple balks.
This. Yes, absolutely true. Gift cards are non re-fundable, but presumably your parents bought with a credit card so there's that.
 

brentsg

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2008
3,414
774
Not really the answer to your question, but definitely research the HP. Often you get what you pay for.

We've got an HP notebook for family purposes and will probably throw it away soon, rather than burden someone else with it.
 

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
Not really the answer to your question, but definitely research the HP. Often you get what you pay for.

We've got an HP notebook for family purposes and will probably throw it away soon, rather than burden someone else with it.
That scares me... My brother had an HP for a while, but it fell apart. These new ones (like the June 2013 edition one I linked) look much nicer in build quality than his. How long ago did your family get the HP? This graph scares me too, HP has the highest malfunction rates.

In a perfect world... If Apple sold a laptop that had a quad core i7 with an nvidia 740m or better for just under $1100, I'd be happy. That HP is close though... Maybe worth the risk.
 

davidg4781

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2006
2,251
177
Alice, TX
That scares me... My brother had an HP for a while, but it fell apart. These new ones (like the June 2013 edition one I linked) look much nicer in build quality than his. How long ago did your family get the HP? This graph scares me too, HP has the highest malfunction rates.

In a perfect world... If Apple sold a laptop that had a quad core i7 with an nvidia 740m or better for just under $1100, I'd be happy. That HP is close though... Maybe worth the risk.
What are you doing that you need so much power in a laptop? You know more than anyone else what your needs are but if you don't need all that power hungry power why have it?
 

Jedi Master

macrumors regular
Internals

Frustrating afternoon with the phone over here. My parents thought I wanted a Macbook and decided to buy a $500 Apple gift card for my graduation present, to help me reach that goal (very appreciative of that, btw). I do want a Macbook too. I love the operating system and I'm hugely into photography and writing and staying mobile. But they are expensive and offer internals that could be better for the price. For a while now, I've been looking at the HP Envy Touchsmart 15, which offers a 1080p display, fourth gen quad core i7 clocked at 3.2 ghz, 8gb ram, and a nice gtx740m (all for $900). My parents did not know this and now I have a $500 gift card towards something I believe I can save money on by buying the alternative (because, you know, college and money go well together).

Back to the phone thing. I called the Apple store in my area multiple times, waited with that robot guy, and spoke to the so-called "support representatives." As soon as I mentioned "gift card" and "refund" they hung up. Just plain dropped me mid sentence. I called many times and every single time, no matter who it was I spoke to, the representative hung up on me. Bad luck? Don't think so. At the moment, I feel forced to buy a Macbook, which, though it wouldn't be all that bad, is a lot of money for not a lot of stuff. My dad still has the receipt for the card too. Know anybody who has been successful at a refund?

If I did buy a Macbook, it'd be either the 13" $1500 non-retina or the retina one. It's a choice of a better processor or an HD screen/better hard drive. Stuck. Doesn't matter the choice, the HP Envy has WAY better internals and looks nearly as nice (but doesn't have the OS) for $600 less.

Edit: There's also this lenovo for around the same price that has incredible internals. The problem is that it's fat with a large screen, hard to carry, and doesn't have the Mac OS.

Internals? Are you saying spec's ?
Spec's are nice if only both of the following conditions are meet.
1 it works, think English Motor cars (Jaguar)
2. If you can use them. Think speed, can you drive that Jaguar over 100 miles an hour Most of the time

If you can't use it because its broke or can use it to its fullest, spec's don't mean a lot.

Just get want you need, there's more to internals than Bigger chip, it's important how its put together.
 

Jessica Lares

macrumors G3
Oct 31, 2009
9,212
728
Near Dallas, Texas, USA
Windows 8, it's WINDOWS 8. Ask yourself if you REALLY want that, because absolutely no one else does it seems.

Yes, you get what you pay for. There's a reason why I just replaced a HP Pavilion desktop from 2004 with a Power Mac G5 from 2003.

$1600 goes a long way. Trust us. Lots of people here spent $2,000+ and are still running laptops from 2004-2007 and using stuff like Photoshop on them. My machine will be two in December, and it actually is better now than when I first bought it due to the frequent system updates that don't wreck your machine like they do on Windows.
 

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
Internals? Are you saying spec's ?
Spec's are nice if only both of the following conditions are meet.
1 it works, think English Motor cars (Jaguar)
2. If you can use them. Think speed, can you drive that Jaguar over 100 miles an hour Most of the time

If you can't use it because its broke or can use it to its fullest, spec's don't mean a lot.

Just get want you need, there's more to internals than Bigger chip, it's important how its put together.
Yeah, I see what you mean with the whole use it or lose it stance. The thing that bugs me is that if I buy a Mac, I'm paying twice as much for something not even half as good, in terms of spec's. It's like buying the reliable horse that will get you where you want at a decent pace when, for the same price, you can get a race horse that might just buck you off on the way.
 

macreviewz

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2010
11
0
are you serious?

900 bucks for a better machine??? NO WAY...you are dreaming!
Any 15" macbook pro BLASTS your computer out of the water.

There are a couple of Alienware and High End Dells that can compete but they are in (Slightly sub) 2000 to 2500 bucks category as well.

Your 900 bucks HP is going to be an inferior business/email computer with a crappy screen, B-grade processor and clunky old school hard drive, and a glorious VGA video out port (if one's there - even in addition to a HDMI port - you're buying old tech). Wrap that in a cheap case, dim screen, and an operating system that uses 50% of yoru CPU just to get ready to get ready, and we are clear.
Buddy, you must have read the wrong threads or never sat in front of a Retina Mac. A 900 bucks HP is a banger that sits abandoned at Costco. I always play with them, but the ant theft metal bar, missing internet connection, and dim screen angle block me from even launching a browser. Sad!
Oh did I forget the tarckpad on these cheapo machines..? What a pain.

But now to the issue.
Yes you should be able to return a gift-card dictates logic. You give credit to someone, now you take it back.
It's usually the STATE or COUNTRY you live in that dictates that process - and is not eh company's decision to make obviously.

Only if you were GIVEN a gift card as money back alternative when you didnt have a receipt (or were out of return time window, and it was a courtesy) then NO RETURN should apply.

If it was a straight purchase, most laws will dictate, and courtesy would suggest - money back!

But don't say we didn't warn you!
 

spacepower7

macrumors 68000
May 6, 2004
1,509
0
Yeah, I see what you mean with the whole use it or lose it stance. The thing that bugs me is that if I buy a Mac, I'm paying twice as much for something not even half as good, in terms of spec's. It's like buying the reliable horse that will get you where you want at a decent pace when, for the same price, you can get a race horse that might just buck you off on the way.
I'd like to see the spec and price comparison bc they usually aren't twice as much when you really know. Many times when the price difference is 50%, the PC is using the last generation Intel processors.

The new MacBook Air only has 1.3 GHz CPU but is within a few % points on many tests compared to last years 1.7 and 2.0 Ghz processors. Clock speeds aren't specs anymore.

You need to decide what is best for you

I've been helping people buy computers since the late 1980s. Everyone that switch from Macs to PCs came back to Macs. Everyone that switched from PCs to Macs never went back back to PCs.

Don't believe in specs, for most people, the $1500 13" non retina isn't worth the upgrade price.

In many average use situations the MBA is much better.

Do what's best for YOU.
 

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
I'd like to see the spec and price comparison bc they usually aren't twice as much when you really know. Many times when the price difference is 50%, the PC is using the last generation Intel processors.

The new MacBook Air only has 1.3 GHz CPU but is within a few % points on many tests compared to last years 1.7 and 2.0 Ghz processors. Clock speeds aren't specs anymore.

You need to decide what is best for you

I've been helping people buy computers since the late 1980s. Everyone that switch from Macs to PCs came back to Macs. Everyone that switched from PCs to Macs never went back back to PCs.

Don't believe in specs, for most people, the $1500 13" non retina isn't worth the upgrade price.

In many average use situations the MBA is much better.

Do what's best for YOU.
To be honest, I like the Mac operating system more. My school has Macs, my home comp is a PC. The one thing I hate about Macs is no dang window snapping like in Win7.

Specs for the HP Envy:

Price: $927
Windows 8 64
4th generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700MQ Processor
NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M Graphics with 2048MB of dedicated video memory
15.6-inch diagonal Full HD BrightView LED-backlit Display (1920x1080)
8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
1TB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
6-Cell Lithium-Ion Battery (9 hours estimated battery life)
Backlit Keyboard
HP TrueVision HD Webcam w/ integrated digital mic
802.11b/g/n WLAN

Specs for the Macbook:

Price: $1499
2.5GHz Dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
Intel HD Graphics 4000
13.3-inch diagonal Retina 2560-by-1600 resolution
8GB System Memory
128GB Flash Storage
Backlit Keyboard
A bigass battery
802.11n Wi-Fi wireless networking;4 IEEE 802.11a/b/g compatible
720p FaceTime HD camera
Bluetooth 4.0 wireless technology

What am I saying? I want a Mac. Badly. I've got the summer to get the necessary $400. But don't the new retina macs have driver issues?
 
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gnasher729

macrumors P6
Nov 25, 2005
16,570
3,148
Most credit card companies offer refund policies, regardless of what the retailer says.
I wonder how that interacts with the retailer's right to payment for the goods. I suppose they'll have to take you to court then, right?
 

GoCubsGo

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 19, 2005
35,753
142
I'm not a fan of gift cards, they are the to get xxx amount of "Credit" at a given store "locked in".parents should have gave you a check or cash.

Why would you think you could return store credit?
Since you came to an Apple forum to ask about ditching the possibility of buying a Mac for an HP and now you're getting nothing but a bunch of people trying to sway you from your decision, I will answer your question.

Gift cards are non-refundable. This is a pretty solid policy and your best bet is to re-sell the card on Plastic Jungle for a small loss. I don't know about your credit card company, but in the sense of gift cards, I cannot see how they can strong arm a retailer to take it back. There is a risk there that the card was somehow compromised; not that you would do that. I've never had to deal with the return of a gift card nor would I force my credit card company to right something that wasn't wrong in the first place.

My advice would be to walk into Apple (get off the phone) and find out. Bring your dad, of course. Buy whatever computer you want and don't let people sway you with remarks like "blast your HP out of the water" or some BS like that. If you want an HP then buy an HP. Don't come to an Apple forum looking for a pat on the back about buying it though. Clearly, you'll be disappointed in the outcome. Most here do love their Macs, myself included.
 

velocityg4

macrumors 601
Dec 19, 2004
4,635
1,210
Georgia
As for the gift card check with your state or national law. They may be required to give you a full refund. Laws may require refunds no matter what, for cards over a certain value or cards you received as a gift. This should be a lesson to never give anyone a gift card for you and your parents. If you insist on buying one for somebody get a VISA or MasterCard gift card that can be used practically anywhere.

You can also sell that card for near face value. I'd only accept cash in person.

To be honest, I like the Mac operating system more. My school has Macs, my home comp is a PC. The one thing I hate about Macs is no dang window snapping like in Win7.

Specs for the HP Envy:

Price: $927
Windows 8 64
4th generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4700MQ Processor
NVIDIA GeForce GT 740M Graphics with 2048MB of dedicated video memory
15.6-inch diagonal Full HD BrightView LED-backlit Display (1920x1080)
8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm)
1TB 5400 rpm Hard Drive
6-Cell Lithium-Ion Battery (9 hours estimated battery life)
Backlit Keyboard
HP TrueVision HD Webcam w/ integrated digital mic
802.11b/g/n WLAN

Specs for the Macbook:

Price: $1499
2.5GHz Dual-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
Intel HD Graphics 4000
13.3-inch diagonal Retina 2560-by-1600 resolution
8GB System Memory
128GB Flash Storage
Backlit Keyboard
A bigass battery
802.11n Wi-Fi wireless networking;4 IEEE 802.11a/b/g compatible
720p FaceTime HD camera
Bluetooth 4.0 wireless technology

What am I saying? I want a Mac. Badly. I've got the summer to get the necessary $400. But don't the new retina macs have driver issues?
Looking at benchmarks of the 1.3Ghz Macbook Air. That 2.4Ghz Haswell in the Envy will be much faster than the 2.4Ghz Ivy Bridge in the Pro. But by the end of summer the Macbook Pro's may have the Haswell CPU. If they use the same size battery it could have massive battery life and be just as fast as the Envy. Also that SSD will make the Macbook Pro feel much faster than the 5,400 RPM drive in the Envy.

You might also check and see if the Envy you want can be turned into a fully function Hackintosh. Check with InsanelyMac, Tonymacx86, &c. Despite what many people claim a Hackintosh can be quite stable, reliable and no different to use than an official Mac. It seems that with each generation of Intel and Mac OS X that Hackintoshes becomes easier to build and are more reliable. Some will lambast the Hackintosh. My guess is they are simply ignorant and biased. Having never experienced one or at least one with properly compatible parts.

As for OS speed differences. If you clear out all the crapware HP puts on there and return Windows to a pure MS state with a good Anti-virus like Avast (not Norton or McAfee ever). It will perform just as well as OS X speed wise if not better. How well Windows or OS X performs on the same spec hardware is really dependent on the abilities of the user to keep them clean.

Keep in mind when price comparing. Those Retina screens are quite expensive. I'd allow $400 to $500 leeway. For more comparable speed I'd replace the Hard Drive in the Envy with an SSD. However no SATA SSD will compete with the SSD likely to be in the next gen MBP. Although other PCI-e SSD's have been announced that make the 800MB/s in the Air laughable.
 
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appleisking

macrumors 6502a
May 24, 2013
658
2,090
I wonder how that interacts with the retailer's right to payment for the goods. I suppose they'll have to take you to court then, right?
No. That's why the retailer chooses whether to accept credit cards and which ones specifically. The retailer is fully responsible for any of their policies and can't go to court over any of them since they agreed with a legal contract to them. Consumers also have the right for a full refund, and since you would be giving back the product, there's nothing to go to court over.
 

notjustjay

macrumors 603
Sep 19, 2003
6,042
111
Canada, eh?
No. That's why the retailer chooses whether to accept credit cards and which ones specifically. The retailer is fully responsible for any of their policies and can't go to court over any of them since they agreed with a legal contract to them. Consumers also have the right for a full refund, and since you would be giving back the product, there's nothing to go to court over.
Yeah, the credit card company would either force the retailer to give back the money, or in certain cases (such as when a credit card company offers you its own theft insurance, extended warranty, or price drop protection), the credit card company absorbs the cost itself. They're willing to do this to build consumer confidence and loyalty, and they figure that the costs of offering these services will be offset by the commissions and interest charges they collect from card users.
 

EvOlso

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 23, 2013
22
0
Now that you mention it, I think I'm going to hold off until the end of the summer. Apple is bound to release a refresh in the coming months.
 

gnasher729

macrumors P6
Nov 25, 2005
16,570
3,148
No. That's why the retailer chooses whether to accept credit cards and which ones specifically. The retailer is fully responsible for any of their policies and can't go to court over any of them since they agreed with a legal contract to them. Consumers also have the right for a full refund, and since you would be giving back the product, there's nothing to go to court over.
It sounded like you could buy a $500 gift card using a credit card, give it away as a present, someone spends the money, then you ask the credit card company to return the $500 to you.
 

b06tmm

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2009
236
23
South Louisiana
Due to poor products and service I have vowed to never buy another HP product again for as long as I live. Not coincidentally, this was in 2009 when I bought my first iMac, a 24" which was the top of the line one. I now have 2-ATV's, 1-MBA, a newer 27" iMac, 1-Mac mini, and a Cannon Pixma printer. I also have a retina iPad and iPhone 5.

I felt dirty just typing the initials of that company.