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So, I am starting to feel like Catalina is Apple's Windows ME

ApfelKuchen said:
Every version of every OS known to mankind is the "worst" to someone. Individuals have a poor experience and expect that everyone else is having an equally poor experience. Maybe the OS is truly to blame, maybe there are other factors. One way or the other, there aren't enough tales of woe to classify this version of macOS as any worse than any previous version I can recall.
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No this is not the case. I am not running some odd software or doing some odd things in macOS. I just had another freeze this morning. If I have any external monitors connected, even with an eGPU, and try to do a long FCPX export (10 hours) to where my computer goes to sleep, I get crashes and freezes.

High Sierra, this NEVER happens. This is a common issue too. Something with the display drivers and sleeping. Older systems seem to be fine, it seems like a Vega driver issue. And if you do not have multiple monitors, it doesn't seem to happen much either. If I don't let my computer go to sleep, I can use FCPX all day without any lockups.

I always upgrade the day it is available to the public. I never had any issues for years. This is the only time I have had issues where it is causing my ability to work to have a problem.

Windows ME is known for bugs and crashes and instability. Just like this OS. I think it has been reported to Apple and they are working on a fix for this issue. So its not like there is no issue.
 
I really like how fast snapshots are with APFS. I have 6 Macs with the oldest from 2012 and they all run fine. I don't use external GPUs. I lost a ton of 32-bit games was the only drawback for me.

It would be nice if Apple would contact the developers for me to ask them to upgrade their apps. I am not going to contact those developers.
 
xWhiplash said:
No this is not the case. I am not running some odd software or doing some odd things in macOS. I just had another freeze this morning. If I have any external monitors connected, even with an eGPU, and try to do a long FCPX export (10 hours) to where my computer goes to sleep, I get crashes and freezes.

High Sierra, this NEVER happens. This is a common issue too. Something with the display drivers and sleeping. Older systems seem to be fine, it seems like a Vega driver issue. And if you do not have multiple monitors, it doesn't seem to happen much either. If I don't let my computer go to sleep, I can use FCPX all day without any lockups.

I always upgrade the day it is available to the public. I never had any issues for years. This is the only time I have had issues where it is causing my ability to work to have a problem.

Windows ME is known for bugs and crashes and instability. Just like this OS. I think it has been reported to Apple and they are working on a fix for this issue. So its not like there is no issue.
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yes, this is YOUR experience. lots of people had issues on high sierra. and so on. why do people think they speak for everyone, or that THEIR experience is everyones?

not having issues with FCPX here (but i only use my imac monitor). anyway, it is a fact: every version of every OS has had issues for some, and been ok for others.
 
fisherking said:
yes, this is YOUR experience. lots of people had issues on high sierra. and so on. why do people think they speak for everyone, or that THEIR experience is everyones?

not having issues with FCPX here (but i only use my imac monitor). anyway, it is a fact: every version of every OS has had issues for some, and been ok for others.
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I see posts from people who reference Snow Leopard as the standard for stability and speed. I remember the progression of Snow Leopard releases and all the issues people had. It eventually got stable but there was a lot of complaints along the way on how horrible it was. I remember all the issues I had with screen sharing that never got resolved in Snow Leopard. I spent a lot of hours on the phone with Apple Care. Lots of freezes and hard resets.
 
Taz Mangus said:
I see posts from people who reference Snow Leopard as the standard for stability and speed. I remember the progression of Snow Leopard releases and all the issues people had. It eventually got stable but there was a lot of complaints along the way on how horrible it was. I remember all the issues I had with screen sharing that never got resolved in Snow Leopard. I spent a lot of hours on the phone with Apple Care. Lots of freezes and hard resets.
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and that's the point. if an OS upgrade works well for someone, they might assume it's fine for everyone; and if the same OS is problematic for someone else... they tend to assume it's a problem for all.

every version of apple's OS has been good/bad; and unless every user is having a particular issue, there's no one point-of-view that speaks for all of us.
 
Anyone know if the 10.15.5 beta has updated Radeon drivers? It would be nice to not have the computer cook itself when you plug in a 1080p monitor.
 
xWhiplash said:
No this is not the case. I am not running some odd software or doing some odd things in macOS. I just had another freeze this morning. If I have any external monitors connected, even with an eGPU, and try to do a long FCPX export (10 hours) to where my computer goes to sleep, I get crashes and freezes.

High Sierra, this NEVER happens. This is a common issue too. Something with the display drivers and sleeping. Older systems seem to be fine, it seems like a Vega driver issue. And if you do not have multiple monitors, it doesn't seem to happen much either. If I don't let my computer go to sleep, I can use FCPX all day without any lockups.

I always upgrade the day it is available to the public. I never had any issues for years. This is the only time I have had issues where it is causing my ability to work to have a problem.

Windows ME is known for bugs and crashes and instability. Just like this OS. I think it has been reported to Apple and they are working on a fix for this issue. So its not like there is no issue.
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Again, you are relating your personal experience. It sucks to be the person having that experience. Windows ME is a legendary fail, not because some individuals had a problem, but that the problems were so widespread. There is no similarity between the broad public experience with Catalina and the broad public experience with ME.
 
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xWhiplash said:
No this is not the case. I am not running some odd software or doing some odd things in macOS. I just had another freeze this morning. If I have any external monitors connected, even with an eGPU, and try to do a long FCPX export (10 hours) to where my computer goes to sleep, I get crashes and freezes.

High Sierra, this NEVER happens. This is a common issue too. Something with the display drivers and sleeping. Older systems seem to be fine, it seems like a Vega driver issue. And if you do not have multiple monitors, it doesn't seem to happen much either. If I don't let my computer go to sleep, I can use FCPX all day without any lockups.

I always upgrade the day it is available to the public. I never had any issues for years. This is the only time I have had issues where it is causing my ability to work to have a problem.

Windows ME is known for bugs and crashes and instability. Just like this OS. I think it has been reported to Apple and they are working on a fix for this issue. So its not like there is no issue.
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100% agreed, and I'm glad more people are picking up on this. Catalina has been an absolute disaster for Apple. Just look at the high number of threads on this forum, Reddit, and the Apple Support forums related to the MBP 16" kernel panics, and the number of people shipping their machines back because Apple can't seem to find a fix.

Luckily Amazon provided a two-month return window on mine -- I'm still thinking of shipping the thing back. It's gotta be a software issue, but the fact that Apple still can't find a fix is worrisome on a $2500+ machine.
 
This past November, I finally upgraded my rig to a "maxed" 2019 16" MBP... I was running a 2013 iMac on Mojave with Pro-Tools. A lot can be said about Avid and Pro-Tools, but this configuration was stable, I had so few problems that I couldn't even truthfully tell you there was a single Kernel Panic for 5 1/2 years (I'm sure there was, I just don't remember). It would appear (after a quick OS wiki look) that every version of Mavericks & PT through every version of Mojave & PT worked.

I believe that in the last month I've had more problems than I can ever remember, combined, in my personal & Professional use of Apple & Avid. After using OS10.15.4 & PT 2019.12 somewhat stabilized for a few weeks, I upgraded PT to 2020.3. The following disaster of a crash resulted in KP's on the nose every five minutes, even in Safe Mode, and even after a clean wipe and reinstall of 10.15.4. Apple couldn't resolve the issue, I had to send my five month old machine to apple and have the logic board replaced. Don't forget, this computer is officially Apple's top tier MacBookPro. and this problem happened at an age of five months. The money I dropped on this thing... smh.

To those of you who are able to operate Catalina without problems, consider yourselves extremely lucky, but also understand, at least from my research, that you are rare.

I've been a long-time MacRumors reader and I've opened a profile to simply post in solidarity to those who have found themselves in this Kernel Panic of Kernel Panics, if you will.

Even after a logic board replacement, I still experience KP's every now and again but at this point realize that until we get out from under 10.15.x, involving in apple will just result in loop of logic board replacements.

Anyone want to buy a 16" MPB? (lbs)

Until then, 10.15.1 it is for me. Good luck.
 
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@IAmArney join the club of staying where you are until there is a release that actually supports your needs. I'm currently doing the same thing. I'm only using 10.15.1 because thats what my last logic board replacement was returned with after Apple recommended to move from 10.14.6 to Catalina to correct a bug in Windowserver that resulted in high CPU after the supplementary update. Since then I've been worried about maintaining a usable MAC to work with. I now wait many weeks after each reales to see what surfaces. To date, while I need manual work around every single day to deal with Macos issues at least I have ways of addressing. 10.15.4 looks like it would have interrupted my ability to use the Mac to earn a living if I was not in lockdown with the reports that it again broke display link external monitors. Resist the urge to upgrade and take solace in the fact that you got some thing that kind of works. I've been waiting almost a year now to get that next release that does work.
 
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crouch said:
100% agreed, and I'm glad more people are picking up on this. Catalina has been an absolute disaster for Apple. Just look at the high number of threads on this forum, Reddit, and the Apple Support forums related to the MBP 16" kernel panics, and the number of people shipping their machines back because Apple can't seem to find a fix.

Luckily Amazon provided a two-month return window on mine -- I'm still thinking of shipping the thing back. It's gotta be a software issue, but the fact that Apple still can't find a fix is worrisome on a $2500+ machine.
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There are posts EVERYWHERE on Reddit, here, Apple's community directly. Yet people still reply here saying its just my experience and there is no issue.
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fisherking said:
yes, this is YOUR experience. lots of people had issues on high sierra. and so on. why do people think they speak for everyone, or that THEIR experience is everyones?

not having issues with FCPX here (but i only use my imac monitor). anyway, it is a fact: every version of every OS has had issues for some, and been ok for others.
Click to expand...
Sorry, not sure why High Sierra came to mind. I was referring to Mojave.
 
crouch said:
100% agreed, and I'm glad more people are picking up on this. Catalina has been an absolute disaster for Apple. Just look at the high number of threads on this forum, Reddit, and the Apple Support forums related to the MBP 16" kernel panics, and the number of people shipping their machines back because Apple can't seem to find a fix.

Luckily Amazon provided a two-month return window on mine -- I'm still thinking of shipping the thing back. It's gotta be a software issue, but the fact that Apple still can't find a fix is worrisome on a $2500+ machine.
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hmm. what about all the people who are using catalina daily? & can you define 'high numbers'... what percentage of catalina users are we talking about? without that info, you're talking about people with issues, but not everyone has them.

what may be true about the 16" MBP (and i can't say much about that, not owning one)... catalina is hardly an 'absolute disaster for apple'. let's stay in the real world when we discuss issues...
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xWhiplash said:
There are posts EVERYWHERE on Reddit, here, Apple's community directly. Yet people still reply here saying its just my experience and there is no issue.
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Sorry, not sure why High Sierra came to mind. I was referring to Mojave.
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most computer users just use their computers, they don't like on forums like this. and people who have issues are generally the ones who post to discuss (or whine, sigh) about those issues.

personally, am not saying you don't have a problem, am pointing out that not everyone has that problem....
 
fisherking said:
hmm. what about all the people who are using catalina daily? & can you define 'high numbers'... what percentage of catalina users are we talking about? without that info, you're talking about people with issues, but not everyone has them.

what may be true about the 16" MBP (and i can't say much about that, not owning one)... catalina is hardly an 'absolute disaster for apple'. let's stay in the real world when we discuss issues...
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The most common element for these kernel panics is the Vega GPU (some 580 reports as well) and extra monitors. Without the extra monitors connected, things seem to be fine for me. Whether my two extra monitors are connected directly to the iMac or an eGPU instead, I experience issues. As soon as I disconnect them, the issue stops. And Mojave and Windows 10 have no issues with the extra monitors. So it seems graphics drivers related and the sleep logic of the system.
 
xWhiplash said:
The most common element for these kernel panics is the Vega GPU (some 580 reports as well) and extra monitors. Without the extra monitors connected, things seem to be fine for me. Whether my two extra monitors are connected directly to the iMac or an eGPU instead, I experience issues. As soon as I disconnect them, the issue stops. And Mojave and Windows 10 have no issues with the extra monitors. So it seems graphics drivers related and the sleep logic of the system.
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then that's a serious issue, and needs to be addressed. but what does that have to do with the bigger picture, and the (endless) ranting here, that 'catalina sucks'? it may for some, but does not for most. like every os that preceeded it.
 
fisherking said:
then that's a serious issue, and needs to be addressed. but what does that have to do with the bigger picture, and the (endless) ranting here, that 'catalina sucks'? it may for some, but does not for most. like every os that preceeded it.
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Because I never had any issues with any of the other macOS and OS X versions before. Its such a basic issue and very reproducible. SAME hardware, Mojave and Windows 10 are fine. So its the OS.
 
xWhiplash said:
Because I never had any issues with any of the other macOS and OS X versions before. Its such a basic issue and very reproducible. SAME hardware, Mojave and Windows 10 are fine. So its the OS.
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you mean, because you personally never had issues with previous OSes? anyway, is this problem happening for everyone? if so, then yes... it's the OS. if it's not everyone, then it's a deeper issue...
 
rpmurray said:
One of the reasons I haven't "upgraded" (oxymoron) from High Sierra is that I still have my hard drives on HFS+. I'm convinced that APFS is the root cause of much of the problems everyone is reporting. So until Apple gets around to finally releasing ALL the information that 3rd parties need to build utilities for repairing and optimizing APFS volumes I'm staying away
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Hard drives remain on HFS+ so that's not a worry. Only SSDs can get APFS.
 
fisherking said:
you mean, because you personally never had issues with previous OSes? anyway, is this problem happening for everyone? if so, then yes... it's the OS. if it's not everyone, then it's a deeper issue...
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With all the reported issues, and the fact that some people have this escalated to senior engineers, it’s seems to be a common problem. Just because you don’t have an issue, doesn’t mean there is none either.

And just FYI, I know several people that had no issues with Windows ME. Doesn’t mean it was a good release and had no problems.
 
Never had an issue with Catalina on my 2015 13" MBP that was upgraded in place since purchase. Don't have an issue with Catalina on my current 2020 MBA. Don't have any issues with Catalina on the 2015 that had a clean reinstall earlier this month.

YMMV but to claim Catalina is like Windows ME (which was an architectural disaster, not just buggy) is a bit of a stretch.
 
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Did a fresh install 10.15.4 on my Mac mini 2014 2.6ghz 8gb. Super fast. No issues yet. The beta was little buggy. But I had a lot of crap also. The final non beta is great. No issues.
 
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Heat_Fan89 said:
Yor're not alone. My 2018 Mini is running HOT with Catalina. Something in the OS is pegging a task to run a CPU core at 25%. All of the software and apps are stock
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Mine is pretty much OK
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This thread is ridiculously over-dramatic, three different Macs all running 10.15.4 and 10.15.5 beta. No problems at all, but all installs and upgrades prepped with a disk clean and check via Disk Utility. plus every app totally up to date.
 
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