So is now a really bad time to buy a Mac Pro?

[AZREOSpecialist]

Unlikely, the processors aren't launched until the middle of march. Anyone looking at waiting should take in to account that it could be early June before they are able to get a 2010 Mac Pro fully setup and ready to work with, and that is assuming the system they buy works correctly.

I think you should check your facts. Intel officially launched Nehalem Xeon on March 31, 2009 but Apple launched the 2009 Mac Pro based on the same chip on March 3, 2009 with early shipments arriving in the hands of customers around March 10th. Based on this track record, if the next generation CPUs are due in March, we will probably see Apple launch the 2010 Mac Pros a few weeks before.

 

[Icaras]

I think you should check your facts. Intel officially launched Nehalem Xeon on March 31, 2009 but Apple launched the 2009 Mac Pro based on the same chip on March 3, 2009 with early shipments arriving in the hands of customers around March 10th. Based on this track record, if the next generation CPUs are due in March, we will probably see Apple launch the 2010 Mac Pros a few weeks before.

This is what I had thought. When is Gulftown scheduled to be released again?

 

[Umbongo]

I thought Apple had first dibs on the new processors, hence why they were released ahead of the market last March?

All we know is last march Apple launched a Xeon based product a month before everyone else. This wasn't the case in the past and as I can recall it hasn't happened with other processors. Intel may give Apple early access to the 32nm Xeons as a showcase or part of an overall negotiation, but no one knows that is actually the case. One site said that Apple would get them early a few months ago and others have reproduced that as if it is factual, but the reality is it could be anywhere from an early February launch to the tail end of Spring. So anyone looking at buying for projects should take that in to account.

 

[Umbongo]

I think you should check your facts. Intel officially launched Nehalem Xeon on March 31, 2009 but Apple launched the 2009 Mac Pro based on the same chip on March 3, 2009 with early shipments arriving in the hands of customers around March 10th. Based on this track record, if the next generation CPUs are due in March, we will probably see Apple launch the 2010 Mac Pros a few weeks before.

One launch out of dozens isn't a track record. What about when Apple launched the original Mac Pro 6 weeks after Xeons were available to coincide with an event? Or in 2007 when they waited for enough inventory of 3GHz quad cores to be available which also coincided with an event? Or in 2008 when they bought the whole supply of 1600MHz Xeons and waited 8 weeks after the launch date to announce product? Let alone all the other products that have been launched based on Intel's schedule.

There are claims out there that say Apple launched early without Intel's go ahead because they wanted all their desktops revised at the same time, which given Apple's history and attitude is just as plausible as Intel pissing off all it's other partners by allowing Apple to launch before they were even allowed to talk about new products.

 

[Nostromo]

Let's not get started with that again... I spent a good three weeks trying to track down info regarding performance on the iMacs with Maya. I made phone calls, sent e-mails to both Apple and Autodesk, made numerous forums posts and ultimately got the answer that an iMac would "probably" run Maya 2010, and even if it didn't, I was getting a sweet monitor out of it.

Finally on the Autodesk board somebody said that yes, the Mac Pro is more expensive, but it absolutely, undoubtedly, for sure runs Maya. And if for some reason it ceases to work, and it's clearly a problem with the video card, or memory, or motherboard, or whatever, it's a lot easier to swap out the faulty component for a new one instead of sending the whole machine back to Apple.

Very reasonable. An iMac you have to replace much sooner than a Mac Pro and is not as good an investment in the long term.

Also: you are stuck with one screen and have no choices. Working long hours on a reflective display causes eye strain.

Just wait for the new Mac Pros, or buy a refurbished unit (like a dual 2008 model).

 

[chet.d]

Geez, I'm so on the fence about buying an 08 3.2 8 core with 10 gigs of ram and 2tb hd space (around $2800). It has apple care till 6/11 but I get nervous about not buying new at this point. I'm still using a dual 867 !
...should win some kinda award for scraping by with what's at hand.
I realize an 08-09 would be lightning fast in comparison but don't want to regret not waiting to see what the 2010 MP brings.

I really need a MP by March at the latest.
trying to hold on, trying to hold on...

 

[powerbook911]

Geez, I'm so on the fence about buying an 08 3.2 8 core with 10 gigs of ram and 2tb hd space (around $2800). It has apple care till 6/11 but I get nervous about not buying new at this point. I'm still using a dual 867 !
...should win some kinda award for scraping by with what's at hand.
I realize an 08-09 would be lightning fast in comparison but don't want to regret not waiting to see what the 2010 MP brings.

I really need a MP by March at the latest.
trying to hold on, trying to hold on...

Wow. Thats tough. Couldn't use a Mini for some extra work until new Mac Pros came out or something?

 

[parakiet]

yeah it's a really bad time now
wait for the next one, it's worth it

yeah, you can say that every year

and finally end up with an 08 3,2 octo

 

[Denarius]

Newer has to be better?

Ultimately I think it depends on what you intend it for: if you're a film-maker that does a lot of re-encoding of footage then obviously you can never have enough power, but that said we've got a Mac Pro 3,1 dual quad-core in the other room that's plenty fast enough enough for our video work and will be for some time to come.

I don't hold with the newer must be better brigade though: my MacBook Pro is now over 2 years old and I'd rather have this than one of the new MacBook pros: no shiny screen, expresscard slot, choice of FW800 and FW400 ports and better looking as well! And after 2 years it still feels pretty spritely to boot.

 

[chet.d]

Wow. Thats tough. Couldn't use a Mini for some extra work until new Mac Pros came out or something?

I Have to have pcie for a UAD 2 plug ins card.
I use the computer for audio only in the studio.
The reason I've held out this long is that I like to give myself limitations (ie; track-count and plug in wise) or I can get stifled with options...but it's getting a little crazy lately as I can't even think about doing more film composing work as the dual 867 is crawling, obviously

yeah, you can say that every year

and finally end up with an 08 3,2 octo

Not sure I follow, are you thinking an 08 3.2 octo now is a more solid bet than waiting a month or 2 to see what happens?
It does seem pretty clear something MP-wise is coming very soon. And I can wait at least till the end of Feb.
Also, isn't it reasonable to say a 3.2 may come down a bit more with the arrival of a 2010 MP?

Ultimately, I'm just leary about buying a used MP even w/ applecare till 2011. Buying new gets me some peace of mind for up to 4 years w/ extended applecare.
That said, If I found a "holy crap, what a deal" MP octo for around 2k w/ applecare...it'd be a tough call.

 

[snouter]

An iMac will run Maya, no problem.

When you hear about "Maya certified" or whatever they call it, it's just Autodesk saying we tested on this system, however, that has nothing to do with it not being able to run on other systems.

All you really need to know about the iMac is that it uses an ATi 4850 video card, which, is not a workstation card with workstation drivers, but then, neither is the crap video cards that come stock with the Mac Pro.

BTW, consider my set up - Windows 7, i7 920 overclocked to 3.4GHz, 12GB ram and an HD4890 video card. I think I built this thing for $1200 and it's been nothing but a powerful pleasure to use for 3d (Cinema 4d) and grpahics/video work using CS4.

====

Gulftown is not out yet, so, Intel needs to announce Gulftown and then launch it and Apple needs to announce and launch as well. Based no where we stand today, I doubt you will be getting your hands on a new Mac Pro by March 15.

 

[nanofrog]

Not sure I follow, are you thinking an 08 3.2 octo now is a more solid bet than waiting a month or 2 to see what happens?
It does seem pretty clear something MP-wise is coming very soon. And I can wait at least till the end of Feb.
Also, isn't it reasonable to say a 3.2 may come down a bit more with the arrival of a 2010 MP?

The 2010's are going to be very similar to the '09's, as they're both using the LGA1366 socket (same architecture, with an additional pair of cores + dies shrink on the newer parts). If Apple issued updated firmware, the '09 boards could run the new CPU's.

So the '08 is still a viable option for some, especially if on a budget.

Ultimately, I'm just leary about buying a used MP even w/ applecare till 2011. Buying new gets me some peace of mind for up to 4 years w/ extended applecare.
That said, If I found a "holy crap, what a deal" MP octo for around 2k w/ applecare...it'd be a tough call.

The refurbs are the ones to get, as you can buy the extended Apple Care to get 3 yrs of warranty coverage.

 

[Santoanderson]

I actually do have a home-built rendering machine that I use for rendering, and the damn thing blue-screens so often. I had to buy a Mac because the PC broke down so often. The Mac has never broken down on me and has been absolutely reliable.

I'll consider a hand-built PC in the future, but I won't rely on it as my primary machine. I don't trust 'em.

And as for the iMac, the reliability problems on the new 27-inchers has really changed my mind.

 

[parakiet]

So the '08 is still a viable option for some, especially if on a budget.

and if you life in the right country : - )

 

[nanofrog]

and if you life in the right country : - )

Quite true. But it's always worth checking the Refurb store and see what's there, as they tend to come and go quickly.

I'm actually amazed at the length of time the 3.2GHz '08 Octads have been available in North America. Perhaps they're left over stock yet, and not actually refurbs. Not sure, but it's been there since shortly after the release of the '09 models IIRC.

 

[snouter]

I'm actually amazed at the length of time the 3.2GHz '08 Octads have been available in North America.

I'm amazed at how many times I have to talk myself out of buying one of these.

I kind of wish I had grabbed one of the 08 - 2.8 Octos. I think they were like $2200 or something for a while.

 

[snouter]

I actually do have a home-built rendering machine that I use for rendering, and the damn thing blue-screens so often.

Weird, I have not had blue screens since Windows 98 or something? I don't much buy the virus or blue screen argument anymore.

The Mac has never broken down on me and has been absolutely reliable

And as for the iMac, the reliability problems on the new 27-inchers has really changed my mind.

These are very confusing times...

 

[xgman]

Then their are those of us like myself who will quite foolishly overpay handsomely for a new loaded 2010 mac pro while someone out there will get a heck of a good deal on a perfectly working, very fast 2x3.2 with 16gb of ram etc etc at my completely unnecessary expense. Logic need not enter into the equation.

 

[chet.d]

The 2010's are going to be very similar to the '09's, as they're both using the LGA1366 socket (same architecture, with an additional pair of cores + dies shrink on the newer parts). If Apple issued updated firmware, the '09 boards could run the new CPU's.

So the '08 is still a viable option for some, especially if on a budget.

The refurbs are the ones to get, as you can buy the extended Apple Care to get 3 yrs of warranty coverage.

That's an interesting consideration re; the 2010's.

To be honest,
I'm mostly interested (at least today anyway) in a 2.66 09 octo despite the heat issue claims which =
roughly $4300 @ apple store. ouch.
... out of my $3k'ish budget (which needs to include atleast 10 gigs of ram and 1.5 to 2 TB HD space).

Maybe I'm missing something but the refurbs are not that much cheaper than the regular pricing.
By "not that much" I mean maybe 300 less?
ie; a refurb 3.2 08 octo = $3300 (2 gigs ram and 500g HD)

I guess even refurb is a bit out of reach. At least at the apple store and at this time anyway.
I just hate to but anything older than 09 as I've waited this long.

 

[snouter]

out of my $3k'ish budget (which needs to include atleast 10 gigs of ram and 1.5 to 2 TB HD space). Maybe I'm missing something but the refurbs are not that much cheaper than the regular pricing.

there is a 2008 2.8 Octo up there right now for $2400

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

One launch out of dozens isn't a track record. What about when Apple launched the original Mac Pro 6 weeks after Xeons were available to coincide with an event? Or in 2007 when they waited for enough inventory of 3GHz quad cores to be available which also coincided with an event? Or in 2008 when they bought the whole supply of 1600MHz Xeons and waited 8 weeks after the launch date to announce product? Let alone all the other products that have been launched based on Intel's schedule.

There are claims out there that say Apple launched early without Intel's go ahead because they wanted all their desktops revised at the same time, which given Apple's history and attitude is just as plausible as Intel pissing off all it's other partners by allowing Apple to launch before they were even allowed to talk about new products.

Apple has made it clear that they no longer announce products to coincide with events. They announce products when the products are ready to be announced. Makes sense to me.

 

[nanofrog]

That's an interesting consideration re; the 2010's.

To be honest,
I'm mostly interested (at least today anyway) in a 2.66 09 octo despite the heat issue claims which =
roughly $4300 @ apple store. ouch.
... out of my $3k'ish budget (which needs to include atleast 10 gigs of ram and 1.5 to 2 TB HD space).

Maybe I'm missing something but the refurbs are not that much cheaper than the regular pricing.
By "not that much" I mean maybe 300 less?
ie; a refurb 3.2 08 octo = $3300 (2 gigs ram and 500g HD)

I guess even refurb is a bit out of reach. At least at the apple store and at this time anyway.
I just hate to but anything older than 09 as I've waited this long.

Keep in mind, you should be able to get 2TB HDD and 8GB RAM kit for ~$550USD for an '08 model. The graphics card may need to be upgraded as well, especially for video/graphics work.

Between the 2.26GHz '09 and 3.2GHz '08 (both Octads), the '08 is faster and cheaper. But if your budget is that limited, you'd need to hunt down a '08 2.8GHz Octad. Workstations aren't usually inexpensive, and MP's are on the higher end of the scale.

The only way to get a fast machine at a much lower budget is to make a hackintosh of either a DIY or ready-made PC.

there is a 2008 2.8 Octo up there right now for $2400

That's not too bad, and given chet.d's budget, would be the best fit IMO as well.

It would still leave funds for upgrades, and it would be a good idea to include the Extended Apple Care, given the cost of repairs if something should ever go wrong. Graphics could pust the budget to the limit, as there's no exact number. $3kish leaves quite a bit open.

 

[chet.d]

There's certainly tempting options but I think the options will become more tempting in the upcoming 1-3 months. Then again, what do I know, just basing the hunch on available info.

Ultimately, I'm personally not sure I can buy comfortably till I at least hear some initial reports and see the 2010.


The budget may have to be bumped up a bit. Figuring out a way to get that by the wife is another matter.

 

[alphaod]

On top of that, I've heard that the 8-core's speed boost over the iMac is more than worth the price difference. So I'm currently leaning towards a Mac Pro, with intentions of buying a refurbished Apple Display.

The only speed boosts (assuming you mean TurboBoost) that are better are on the 2.66GHz and 2.93GHz Mac Pros… both of which cost more than 3x more than the iMac.

I think in terms of value, the best would be 8-core 2008 model; the i7 iMac is pretty good as well and the monitor is pretty good.

 

[nanofrog]

There's certainly tempting options but I think the options will become more tempting in the upcoming 1-3 months. Then again, what do I know, just basing the hunch on available info.

Ultimately, I'm personally not sure I can buy comfortably till I at least hear some initial reports and see the 2010.


The budget may have to be bumped up a bit. Figuring out a way to get that by the wife is another matter.

The 2010 models aren't going to have lower prices than the current models. The parts are the same architecture with added cores. They'd stay the same at best, but it's likely going to be worse (i.e. price increase for the same part in terms of clock speed). So to meet a price point, the clock speeds are going to drop.

So if you can't push your budget to at least $4k (very basic upgrades perhaps, but not all, and certainly not a decent monitor if needed), then you're not going to be able to handle the 2010's pricing, and the '09's will still be on the high side as well (discounted, but not severely so).

That would mean the '08 is still the best option without a significant rise in your budget. And the 2.8GHz Octad won't last long. Those go quickly.

EDIT:
You missed the 2.8GHz '08 Octad. The lowest price now is the refurbished 2.26GHz '09 Octad for $2800 (here).
You'd have to toss the OEM memory to upgrade the RAM (it's 6x 1GB sticks), get a better graphics card, and add drives (given the usage you're interested in, you'd benefit from RAID). Perhaps a good monitor if you don't already have one.
That's over $1K in upgrades without a monitor. (Based on 8GB RAM kit, 4x 1TB drives, and an Apple HD4870). You could save some money by flashing a PC version of the HD4870, but that's another thread.