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r6mile

macrumors 65816
Feb 3, 2010
1,004
504
London, UK
I think the new machines look really awesome - yes, no user upgradeable anything but that was the case already with these particular machines (with the exception of the RAM on the Mini).

The performance and battery life gains, if as good as Apple claims, are mind-blowing. And Rosetta 2 and the ability to run iPhone and iPad apps will make the transition much smoother for users.

Clearly a 'M1X' chip that supports more than 16GB of RAM and more TB ports will arrive, for a higher-end (space grey) Mini and MBP. I'll be very interested to see what Apple can deliver in machines where power efficiency - ie the iMac - is less of a constraint.
 

RogerWilco6502

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2019
1,823
1,944
Tír na nÓg
My primary thought is "good for them."

I'm largely indifferent from a consumer standpoint because I am not in the market for a new Mac at the present moment. From a technical standpoint though, I see this as an awesome leap forward for Apple. In a way, it's sort of a return to how some companies worked in the 70s and 80s where they made all their chips for all of their machines in-house.

I'm admittedly a little wary of what this will mean for iOS/macOS combination and if this will make everything more or less glorified iPads, but I do have faith that Apple won't do that.

I wrote this right after getting up, so let's see if it makes any sense.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,604
28,365
Someone on Reddit made the offhand comment about Open Firmware signing. If possible, and implemented, such a thing would prevent downgrading. So, just like an iDevice Apple would be able to control the OS you could or could not install.

I'll wait and see what the new ARM Macs offer, but Apple already had a chip with security before this that was causing some issues. Right now, I foresee moving into the unibody Macs, but nothing later than 2015. My current work issued 2015 MBP has a 256GB SSD and 16GB RAM.

But based on Apple's current arc I think I am looking to moving back to PC after 17 or so years.
 

NathanJHill

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2014
125
91
Yes, I am intrigued but I’m also nervous that these first generation M1 Macs are not going to age well as Apple has more time to develop the platform. Lots of Apple 1.0 products really matured in their next iteration. I’m going to wait and see what reviews say.
 

philgxxd

macrumors 6502
Feb 11, 2017
423
342
Malaga, Spain
I started to watch and got even excited by the marketing.
I had to smile when Craig set the mood for to open the lid of the macbook...I liked that humorous wink.
I didn't finished the stream though but looked this morning on the main page of macrumors what they finally announced.
I'm still not interested in new apple products just because I don't need it because my old serves me well still and i can't/want to support their "walled garden".
I just saw LinesTechTips take on this and I have to confess they are doing a good job in summarising the facts.
 

Wowfunhappy

macrumors 68000
Mar 12, 2019
1,745
2,087
Someone on Reddit made the offhand comment about Open Firmware signing. If possible, and implemented, such a thing would prevent downgrading. So, just like an iDevice Apple would be able to control the OS you could or could not install.
There's no secret here, Apple has detailed exactly how this will work.

By default, it's exactly like iOS—the OS is verified online at install time, making it impossible to install an older version of macOS. However, you can get rid of the online check and install older OS's by turning on "Reduced Security" in Recovery Mode.

You can also install fully unsigned (non-Apple) OS's by enabling "Permissive Security" and doing... something else, which the man page doesn't elaborate on, but explicitly says can be done! https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RwcT8stYMY/
 
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1042686

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2016
1,575
2,326
The lack of ports and upgradeability is a turn off. I have never been into the idea of spending 1k for the privilege of buying additional adapters to achieve the i/o I want.

Now my wife on the other hand doesn’t care at all about that sort of thing, so a new MacBook Air or pro for her work makes sense.

So the announcement pushes me away but brings my wife closer.
 

AshleyPomeroy

macrumors member
Dec 27, 2018
91
179
England
I thought it was mostly neat. The real question is how well Logic, Photoshop, Final Cut etc work on the new hardware, both with the emulation layer and eventually with native code. Even if they're no faster the extra battery life is nice to have. For desktop use the extra power is fine but it's not the massive leap I expected. The MacBook Air is fanless, which raises the question of whether it is genuinely cool, or if it throttles like mad. And of course there's Big Sur, with its iPad integration. I used my iPad for (a) books (b) airline boarding passes. The second thing at least has to be perfect.

A few things bug me. Apple went on about the integrated memory model, which sounds like shorthand for "the graphics chip uses a lot of system memory". With only 8gb in the standard MacBook Pro / Air models that feels uncomfortable. The MacBook Pro doesn't seem to offer more than the high-spec MacBook Air (one extra graphics core). Even with the power boost Apple obviously expects you to have a games console for games, which is fair enough but still.

Swapping the Mini's Intel chip for M1 without making the case smaller feels stop-gappy (presumably the Mini's cooling design can now remove far more heat than it needs to). Having a Mini that uses less power and runs ice-cold is great but not a major draw.

Of the three models announced the Air is the one I would buy. Eighteen hours of battery life in a tiny compact case that can also run iPad applications sounds like a perfect travel companion.

The real test will be how Apple manages at the other end of the market, with the heavy-hitting pro machine. Given that they seem to run cooler, imagine a Macintosh Pro in the current case that has 96 cores.

Also, where on Earth did Among Us come from? One moment it's Fortnite but now it's all Among Us. What happened to Macy Gray? Where's my walking stick?
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Original poster
Oct 28, 2015
9,784
12,183
The performance and battery life gains, if as good as Apple claims, are mind-blowing.
It'll be interesting to compare the ARM MacBooks to one of the very few Windows-on-ARM laptops out there in terms of these aspects, yep. And to see whether macOS can be made to take to them (or a Raspberry Pi LOL).

In a way, it's sort of a return to how some companies worked in the 70s and 80s where they made all their chips for all of their machines in-house.
Apple is sort of like a new Acorn. And that brings another thought - the nimble RISC OS would scream on one of these machines.

You can also install fully unsigned (non-Apple) OS's by enabling "Permissive Security" and doing... something else, which the man page doesn't elaborate on, but explicitly says can be done! https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/RwcT8stYMY/
So who's going to be the first to succeed in natively booting Windows 10 on Apple Silicon hardware? It's like early 2006 all over again :D

The lack of ports and upgradeability is a turn off.
At least the Mac mini's still got regular USB-A and HDMI, we should be grateful for that I guess.

I've got to admit - the kid within me who continuously wants new toys would sort of fancy a new mini to tinker with. But not at those prices - (EUR 778 or more in Germany).

And I wonder - did Apple experiment with, say, Snow Leopard on an A4 CPU as early as 2010? How long has OS X's second double life been going on?
 

1042686

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2016
1,575
2,326
It'll be interesting to compare the ARM MacBooks to one of the very few Windows-on-ARM laptops out there in terms of these aspects, yep. And to see whether macOS can be made to take to them (or a Raspberry Pi LOL).


Apple is sort of like a new Acorn. And that brings another thought - the nimble RISC OS would scream on one of these machines.


So who's going to be the first to succeed in natively booting Windows 10 on Apple Silicon hardware? It's like early 2006 all over again :D


At least the Mac mini's still got regular USB-A and HDMI, we should be grateful for that I guess.

I've got to admit - the kid within me who continuously wants new toys would sort of fancy a new mini to tinker with. But not at those prices - (EUR 778 or more in Germany).

And I wonder - did Apple experiment with, say, Snow Leopard on an A4 CPU as early as 2010? How long has OS X's second double life been going on?
Yeah man, I had similar thoughts for myself on the mini. I have always liked Minis. I'm such an old hardware software geek/tinkerer though and I already have so much crap that goes beep, I can't justify a totally new box for myself. I keep myself "relevant" with modern iOS/macOS by pushing that cash to keep my wife's technology ecosystem modern - new phone, mac etc. Naturally, I am her tech support and fixer of all things that go beep, so I stay current through that effort.

I'm with @eyoungren in that I think the newest Id go for my own needs as far as a 17" portable is 2015 or so. I mean my daily is still my 2008 unibody MacBook. When macOS starts showing its age, Ill dual boot that intel system into some sleek & light Linux distro. I think FreeBSD would be pretty rad too but have little actual experience with it beyond consuming YT videos about it. Still, as-is, I'm very happy with ElCap. Heck I still enjoy Leopard on my QS :D
 
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1042686

Cancelled
Sep 3, 2016
1,575
2,326
Moving to ARM is great; I like seeing competition to Intel.

The actual devices they just announced belong in the garbage can though. A locked down iPad with a crappy keyboard? lol
Im glad Im not the only person who feels like that lol! I was talking with the good IT folks at my work and we all agreed that the move to ARM if anything will make battery life really amazing which will actually improve peoples experiences & productivity vs the typical gimmicky BS we often see.
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
I think the eventual reign of x86 was going to fall sometime. Apple just took the first step,, and I'm certain that more will follow in time. The amount of ARM CPU makers is far more vibrant and dynamic than the stagnant Intel and stagnant-until-2017 AMD. Maybe given enough time we'll see a rise of other architectures like RISC-V and even POWER again.

As for the "locked down" RAM, I don't think it's as big a deal as before. It's LPDDR which does not come on DIMMs anyway, and it's part of the CPU package, arguably making the CPU more expensive to manufacture in the first place. Likewise, there's no separate SSD controller so 3rd-party SSDs wouldn't work anyway. If Apple would stop pricing storage and RAM like it's 2009 though that would be super, that's my main beef.

I just saw LinesTechTips take on this and I have to confess they are doing a good job in summarising the facts.
Linus is a chode, he knows his audience of gamer kiddies will trash Apple no matter what so he feeds them titles like "Apple's announcement is a dumpster fire" and yet swallows NVidia marketing like gospel. (8K gaming card anyone?) Ever since he moved into the fancy new office it's been nothing but clickbait hot-takes with zero real substance.

Speaking of hot-takes...
The actual devices they just announced belong in the garbage can though. A locked down iPad with a crappy keyboard? lol
We'll see when they're in people's hands next week, I have a hunch they're a lot more than that. (and the butterfly keyboard is still gone, might wanna check your facts)

For me, the fact that I can't rip the guts out of my laptop matters little compared to portability, battery life, and power. Hell, the whole industry is moving toward that model at the high end anyway.

I would like to see if "Intel Vintage" Macs will be a separate community to PPC though, that'll be interesting.
 

2984839

Cancelled
Apr 19, 2014
2,114
2,241
I think the eventual reign of x86 was going to fall sometime. Apple just took the first step,, and I'm certain that more will follow in time. The amount of ARM CPU makers is far more vibrant and dynamic than the stagnant Intel and stagnant-until-2017 AMD. Maybe given enough time we'll see a rise of other architectures like RISC-V and even POWER again.

As for the "locked down" RAM, I don't think it's as big a deal as before. It's LPDDR which does not come on DIMMs anyway, and it's part of the CPU package, arguably making the CPU more expensive to manufacture in the first place. Likewise, there's no separate SSD controller so 3rd-party SSDs wouldn't work anyway. If Apple would stop pricing storage and RAM like it's 2009 though that would be super, that's my main beef.


Linus is a chode, he knows his audience of gamer kiddies will trash Apple no matter what so he feeds them titles like "Apple's announcement is a dumpster fire" and yet swallows NVidia marketing like gospel. (8K gaming card anyone?) Ever since he moved into the fancy new office it's been nothing but clickbait hot-takes with zero real substance.

Speaking of hot-takes...

We'll see when they're in people's hands next week, I have a hunch they're a lot more than that. (and the butterfly keyboard is still gone, might wanna check your facts)

For me, the fact that I can't rip the guts out of my laptop matters little compared to portability, battery life, and power. Hell, the whole industry is moving toward that model at the high end anyway.

I would like to see if "Intel Vintage" Macs will be a separate community to PPC though, that'll be interesting.
I have a 2019 16" MBP (company issued) with the new keyboard. The new keyboard sucks. It belongs on a $399 laptop from Walmart, not a $3k laptop.
 

rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
741
999
It's really interesting seeing the "Apple Silicon" Macs finally coming to market after more than five years' worth of rumors. It looks like they're going with the same playbook they used during the Intel transition; switch over the lower-end, higher-volume selling machines, and accompany it with a "pro" level product that early adopting Power Users can sink their teeth into. From a historical standpoint, this really is the culmination of what Steve Jobs really envisioned the Mac to be.

From a longevity standpoint, I feel like, just like early-gen iDevices, these machines won't age well for most people, except for Apple afficionadoes. If the above posts are correct and Apple locks down the OS install/updating process, then these might as well be simply upscaled iPads with built-in keyboards. I'm not really too concerned about these Macs when it comes to expandability and upgradeability; the current-gen Intel Macs aren't that upgradeable or expandable anyway.

I do find the situation with the 13" Air and the 13" Pro a bit puzzling. Apart from a more effective cooling system, I don't see why one would go for the Pro when the Air has the same CPU and graphics; is Apple expecting the M1 in the 13" Pro to use more of its high performance cores longer/more often due to its higher thermal envelope? I'm really curious as to what the performance delta between the two models will be, and if it will be a compelling enough reason to pay for the Pro.

I'm also more curious about what will be going into the 16" MacBook Pro, the iMac Pro, and the Mac Pro. I'm honestly I'm not sure if they'll actually release an "M1X" or just stuff a whole bunch of M1s in a case.

I came away generally feeling positive about where Apple is going (my gripes with their Macs ever since the T2 chip became included aside), but if anything, I'm still disappointed that my favorite Mac of all-time -- the 11" MacBook Air -- still hasn't been brought back.
 

rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
741
999
I would like to see if "Intel Vintage" Macs will be a separate community to PPC though, that'll be interesting.

It's frankly been a long time coming, and I don't get why the MR forums higher-ups haven't done so already. The Intel Macs have come a long way since the 2006-2010 era. And besides, I need some other like-minded souls to show off this new dank black Core Duo MacBook that I nursed back to heath...
 

MacFoxG4

macrumors 6502
Nov 22, 2019
447
623
I have mixed feelings on these Apple Silicon Macs. The performance sounds great, but the systems are so locked down that it is off putting to me. This is the issue I have had with the recent Intels too, but at least the 2018 Mac Mini had upgradable RAM. The fact that I can upgrade the HDD and RAM on my older Macs, but not on newer Macs is so weird to me. As someone who plays around with different OS X versions on their Macs, not being able to Downgrade the OS is a disappointment to me. I have been in situations with my old Macs in which downgrading was beneficial, so not being able to downgrade on these new Macs puts me off.

I have often contemplated getting a modern Mac to use as a daily driver and leave Windows 10 behind, but these newer Macs are so off-putting to me that I think I'll just stick with my Windows 10 laptop as my daily driver. The newest I think I would ever want to go when it comes to Macs is the 2012 non-Retina MBP. Why? Because it is the last MBP to have an optical drive.
 
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