(I'm hoping this thread can stimulate some actual conversation, not just people telling me "why are you b****ing, this is an Apple forum, go use whatever you want") I've been an Apple user overall since around 2000 (and will continue to be), and I've been an Apple TV devotee since the first generation came out over a decade ago. With the exception of the 4K, I've upgraded to every new version of the Apple TV that Apple has put out over the years. I had three Apple TV Gen4s in my house up until recently. The other night, while wrestling with the idiotically-designed ATV remote and dealing with this issue I constantly have where I'll be watching a show and I have to hit the menu button literally 20 times to get it to stop/go back to the menu, I decided maybe it was worth seeing what else is out there. After reading numerous reviews, I placed an order and.....the Fire Stick 4K is SO MUCH BETTER. The remote is better (equal form AND function). The interface is better. It's fast, it's responsive. The voice control works well. My TVs don't turn on at random during the day like they did when they had Apple TV plugged into them. I haven't had them long enough to tell but, I suspect my streaming apps on the Fire Stick won't lose their logon information at random like they did on Apple TV, and I know (obviously) that I can look forward to not constantly being prompted for my iTunes password at random anymore even though my password hasn't changed. The only thing I'm missing is AirPlay/iTunes Store integration, and based on what came out of CES this year, AirPlay will be coming soon to a Samsung TV near me anyway. (AND I'm just going to leave this here: while I realize buying anything Apple means you're going to have to pay the "Apple Tax," and so I probably shouldn't bring this into the equation...but, I bought three Fire Stick 4Ks for less than the cost of one Apple TV.) So, with all that being said, what the hell is the allure of Apple TV anymore? I feel like I've been patient, waiting a long time for a truly significant improvement, and it feels like after 12 years it's still being treated as just a "hobby" to Apple.