So, who has tried their 5870 in a 2008 or 2006 Mac Pro?

[lloyd709]

Do these cards use 64 bit EFI? Someone on the Apple question page suggested it did and would therefore not work in a 2006 1,1 Mac Pro. Is this the case??

We will get there in the end (us 1,1 owners) - as soon as someone very kindly pops one into one!!!

 

[goMac]

I hope you're right, because the display site says that MDP carries the audio over the cable now.

Also, an adapter to convert MDP to DVI costs ~$150. This sucks :/

I would guess it would work. My Macbook Pro meets the requirements, but it doesn't do audio over displayport.

 

[Gloor]

I have 30"ACD at the moment so that is not an issue for me either but just in case this screen breaks and I will replace it with mini displayport will the card work with one screen on mini dp? Or does it mean that those ports are unusable even for a single screen setup?

There is a caveat when using the Radeon HD 5870 or 5770 on the 2006-2008 Mac Pro. The two Mini DisplayPorts are "negative function" no matter what adapter you have. Only the dual-link DVI port can be used to drive a display on the older Mac Pros.

And, no, Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter and Mini DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapters will not help.

For hard core gamers with one display, it's not an issue. But for those of you looking forward to connecting two or three displays to the 5870 or 5770, you are better off with the GTX 285 which has dual DVI ports.

The 2009 and 2010 Mac Pros do support the Mini DisplayPort. That's probably why Apple officially supports the 5870 and 5770 only on the 2009 and 2010.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

It's a bit of a concern going forward. If certain ports don't work now on 06-08 models and Apple's position is that they've never supported the card on those systems, could we get left high and dry with a future update? What's to stop the DVI port from working in the future?

Unless this is a driver issue and an image / swapped hard drive from the 10's is placed into an 06 - 08 model fixes the problem, it seems to infer that there is indeed some hardware config somewhere that's different enough to cause problems.

Maybe it's something to do with HDCP? Perhaps the video signal for the MDP's is routed through some extra circuitry not present on the earlier models? Isn't MDP meant to be HDCP compliant and DVI not?

Of course, I have no idea what I'm talking about or whether what I just wrote makes any sense whatsoever....Just throwing it out there

Bloomin' Apple.....Just when we thought they were throwing us a bone....

Give it some time. Flashed 5870s using the EFI part from the iMac can display MDP and two DVIs and they work on the 2008 Mac Pro (no boot screen though). Worst case scenario, 2008 Mac Pro owners can go that route. Give the Rominator, netkas et. al. some time though. Chances are they'll have flashed 5870s out before long that can run on 2006+ Mac Pros with displayport support too using mixtures of the iMac's EFI and Mac Pro's EFI 5xxx ROMs.

Unfortunately Apple does have some precedence in terms of manually 'breaking' parts of their ATI cards. They did so with the 4870, disabling Crossfire on their cards. ATI came and released a driver update that re-enabled it in Windows but Apple release the drivers for OSX, not ATI. The daft thing is, my guess is that Apple did this on purpose - meaning they spent developer time etc on manually breaking MDP support. I guess they hope that those with 2008 or earlier Mac Pros will want a 27" LED display so much that they upgrade their whole machine.

 

[law guy]

There is a caveat when using the Radeon HD 5870 or 5770 on the 2006-2008 Mac Pro. The two Mini DisplayPorts are "negative function" no matter what adapter you have. Only the dual-link DVI port can be used to drive a display on the older Mac Pros.

And, no, Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter and Mini DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapters will not help.

For hard core gamers with one display, it's not an issue. But for those of you looking forward to connecting two or three displays to the 5870 or 5770, you are better off with the GTX 285 which has dual DVI ports.

The 2009 and 2010 Mac Pros do support the Mini DisplayPort. That's probably why Apple officially supports the 5870 and 5770 only on the 2009 and 2010.

Barefeats - I'd love to hear if you find out anything re: why this is the case. As noted, there are other ATI cards like the 4870 that have the mini port that work.

AND - it would FANTASTIC to see a Comparison of 4870 vs 5870 in the Early 2008 machine. More VRAM, newer technology, etc. one would suppose that the 5870 will be better, but I recall that the 4870 is actually faster than the 5770.

 

[Weepul]

 

[3282868]

Barefeats - I'd love to hear if you find out anything re: why this is the case. As noted, there are other ATI cards like the 4870 that have the mini port that work.

AND - it would FANTASTIC to see a Comparison of 4870 vs 5870 in the Early 2008 machine. More VRAM, newer technology, etc. one would suppose that the 5870 will be better, but I recall that the 4870 is actually faster than the 5770.

Ditto. Got the 4870 in my 2008 8 core MacPro3,1, it's got 64-bit EFI, the 5770's minidisplay-ports should work. This has to be a driver issue. Those who are testing it on 2008/2006 are doing so without Apple's official driver release, and when that time comes I'm sure Apple will release updated drivers when the GPU is installed. Time will tell, but these early "test(s)" amount to nothing.

 

[barefeats]

Barefeats - I'd love to hear if you find out anything re: why this is the case. As noted, there are other ATI cards like the 4870 that have the mini port that work.

AND - it would FANTASTIC to see a Comparison of 4870 vs 5870 in the Early 2008 machine. More VRAM, newer technology, etc. one would suppose that the 5870 will be better, but I recall that the 4870 is actually faster than the 5770.

I haven't given up on the Mini DisplayPort and the 2008. I'm going to try a different display tomorrow (24" LED and 23" LCD). Today I was using a 30" Cinema and no joy with the Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Converter from Apple.

Also I got an email from a guy in Canada who as the 4870 with Mini DisplayPort working on a 2006 Mac Pro. "My brother is using an old 4:3 17" Viewsonic display plugged in the Mini DisplayPort of his ATI HD 4870 and it's working perfectly. The Mini DisplayPort to DVI needs to be plugged with a digital DVI cable and the monitor needs to be compatible for the setup to work."

 

[barefeats]

BTW, OWC found the 5770 works in 2006 - 2009.
They said the 5870 works in the 2008-2009 -- just like I found out -- but they said it won't work in their 2006. But I know of at least one 2006 that it works in.

I remember some postings here or in some forum about the 2006 models having two different Boot ROM versions or SMC versions. One boot the 4870 and one would not. Do any of you remember that?

 

[zorinlynx]

I really hope the 5770 works. I have a 3870 I'm fairly happy with right now, but I'd like to have an upgrade path if this card dies. (Video cards inevitably die, it seems to be part of life for me)

 

[theBigD23]

I haven't given up on the Mini DisplayPort and the 2008. I'm going to try a different display tomorrow (24" LED and 23" LCD). Today I was using a 30" Cinema and no joy with the Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Converter from Apple.

Also I got an email from a guy in Canada who as the 4870 with Mini DisplayPort working on a 2006 Mac Pro. "My brother is using an old 4:3 17" Viewsonic display plugged in the Mini DisplayPort of his ATI HD 4870 and it's working perfectly. The Mini DisplayPort to DVI needs to be plugged with a digital DVI cable and the monitor needs to be compatible for the setup to work."

It would be great if you can test an Apple LED directly connected to the MDP and see if one or both ports work. Thanks for doing this!

 

[Redneck1089]

I haven't given up on the Mini DisplayPort and the 2008. I'm going to try a different display tomorrow (24" LED and 23" LCD). Today I was using a 30" Cinema and no joy with the Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Converter from Apple.

Also I got an email from a guy in Canada who as the 4870 with Mini DisplayPort working on a 2006 Mac Pro. "My brother is using an old 4:3 17" Viewsonic display plugged in the Mini DisplayPort of his ATI HD 4870 and it's working perfectly. The Mini DisplayPort to DVI needs to be plugged with a digital DVI cable and the monitor needs to be compatible for the setup to work."

My 4870 Mac edition has always had it's mini display port working on my 2006. I use it to connect my 20" apple cinema display. I have a mini display to dvi adapter that I use with it. No problems.

 

[barefeats]

I connected a 23" Cinema LCD to the 5870s Mini DisplayPort while I was testing the 2009 Mac Pro. It worked fine. Tomorrow morning, I'll try the 2008 again with that display.

 

[3282868]

I connected a 23" Cinema LCD to the 5870s Mini DisplayPort while I was testing the 2009 Mac Pro. It worked fine. Tomorrow morning, I'll try the 2008 again with that display.

And forgive be, but this came with the 2010 Mac Pro and you placed it in an 2008 model?

If that's the case, wouldn't the 2010 ship with specific graphics drivers for that model? Until the 5870/5770's ship for other models those drivers won't be out which would account for some aspects of the 5870/5770 cards not working.

Try the Apple 24" LED LCD connected to the 5870's mini-displayport in a 3,1 Mac Pro tomorrow and let us know what happens. I'm eager to find out as I order the 5770 to replace the 4870 in mine, so I can take out the GT 120 I have as well, sell both and make some $$$ as the 5770 is cheaper than the 4870.

 

[goMac]

And forgive be, but this came with the 2010 Mac Pro and you placed it in an 2008 model?

If that's the case, wouldn't the 2010 ship with specific graphics drivers for that model? Until the 5870/5770's ship for other models those drivers won't be out which would account for some aspects of the 5870/5770 cards not working.

He said he hooked it to a 2009 and it worked fine.

This is all very interesting. I'm not sure what to think. These are cards that work fine in any old PC, so it's very troubling they don't work properly in a 2008 Mac Pro. You could take a stock 5870, throw it in a 2008 Mac Pro, boot into Windows, and it would work perfectly.

I feel like there might be some backlash on this one.

(Even so, I'm still tempted to sneak over to Barefeat's place, steal his 5870, and play SC2 all night on it on my 08 Mac Pro. What part of Portland did you say you lived in? )

 

[3282868]

He said he hooked it to a 2009 and it worked fine.

This is all very interesting. I'm not sure what to think. These are cards that work fine in any old PC, so it's very troubling they don't work properly in a 2008 Mac Pro. You could take a stock 5870, throw it in a 2008 Mac Pro, boot into Windows, and it would work perfectly.

I feel like there might be some backlash on this one.

(Even so, I'm still tempted to sneak over to Barefeat's place, steal his 5870, and play SC2 all night on it on my 08 Mac Pro. What part of Portland did you say you lived in? )

Ah, 2009, thanks. Yeah, you can flash a stock ATI card with an EFI ROM (they come flashed with BIOS). You'd have to research which EFI ROM you would need for the Mac Pro. For example, 32-bit or 64-bit EFI ROM's depending on the system. The 2008's support both 32 and 64 bit, the 2009's+ only support 64-bit. There should be no reason that the 5870/5770 won't function 100% with the 2008 3,1+ Mac Pro's, given that Apple will simply release the necessary supported graphics drivers, which is what this really comes down to. Apple needs to supply the kext's for the card for varying systems. If Apple doesn't want 2008 Mac Pro owners to use a certain graphics card, they can withhold the necessary drivers for full functionality. Otherwise, hardware wise, the cards should work.

 

[3282868]

BTW, OWC found the 5770 works in 2006 - 2009.
They said the 5870 works in the 2008-2009 -- just like I found out -- but they said it won't work in their 2006. But I know of at least one 2006 that it works in.

I remember some postings here or in some forum about the 2006 models having two different Boot ROM versions or SMC versions. One boot the 4870 and one would not. Do any of you remember that?

So the 5770 works in the 2008 3,1 Pro, does this include the 2 mini-displayports or not as in previous tests?

Hmmmm, I don't recall any thing about the 2006 models and different EFI ROM's. Maybe the early 2006 only supports 32-bit EFI while the later models support both 32 and 64 bit EFI ROMs? I know my 2008 Pro supports both 32 and 64 bit EFI.

UPDATE: See svale's post above re: the 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 and 2,1 EFI and SMC

I gave my friend an extra 4870 I had for his 2006 Pro and it works perfectly, mini-displayport and dual-link DVI. Were there two 2006 Mac Pro's, like an early and late year model? I know his Mac Pro wouldn't boot my nVidia 8800GT that came with my 2008 Mac Pro, but it booted with the 4870 which I found odd.

 

[maghemi]

There is a caveat when using the Radeon HD 5870 or 5770 on the 2006-2008 Mac Pro. The two Mini DisplayPorts are "negative function" no matter what adapter you have. Only the dual-link DVI port can be used to drive a display on the older Mac Pros.

And, no, Mini DisplayPort to DVI adapter and Mini DisplayPort to dual-link DVI adapters will not help.

For hard core gamers with one display, it's not an issue. But for those of you looking forward to connecting two or three displays to the 5870 or 5770, you are better off with the GTX 285 which has dual DVI ports.

The 2009 and 2010 Mac Pros do support the Mini DisplayPort. That's probably why Apple officially supports the 5870 and 5770 only on the 2009 and 2010.

What about mini display port to display port? or the 24" apple (or 27" for that matter display)

 

[ovrlrd]

What about mini display port to display port? or the 24" apple (or 27" for that matter display)

Mini DP and DP are the same thing, it's just a different connector.

The 27" Apple LED display is not out yet, but barefeats says they will try out the 24" LED.

 

[svale]

Hmmmm, I don't recall any thing about the 2006 models and different EFI ROM's.

...

Were there two 2006 Mac Pro's, like an early and late year model?

There are two 2006 models: the 1,1 which is the quad-core (2 x dual-core) configuration, and the 2,1 which is the 8-core (2 x quad-core) configuration. Both are EFI-32. Both also have different BootROM and SMC versions.

1,1: MP11.005C.B08 (EFI 1.2), 1.7f10 (SMC 1.1)
2,1: MP21.007F.B06 (EFI 1.2), 1.15f3 (SMC 1.1)

Yet a quick Google search suggests that the 4870 works in both models. I'd be very surprised if the 5870 worked in one and not the other.

I know his Mac Pro wouldn't boot my nVidia 8800GT that came with my 2008 Mac Pro, but it booted with the 4870 which I found odd.

Most likely because your 8800 GT was for EFI-64 Mac Pros.

The 1,1 and 2,1 required an EFI-32 8800 GT, which Apple later released as an upgrade kit. I have one (well, a PC 8800 GT flashed with the exact same ROM) running flawlessly in my 1,1.

 

[3282868]

Most likely because your 8800 GT was for EFI-64 Mac Pros.

The 1,1 and 2,1 required an EFI-32 8800 GT, which Apple later released as an upgrade kit. I have one (well, a PC 8800 GT flashed with the exact same ROM) running flawlessly in my 1,1.

Yup, I remember now, that's EXACTLY it. The 8800GT had the EFI64 ROM. I tried to flash the 8800GT down to the EFI32 ROM but no matter how hard I tried with nvflash I couldn't. Thankfully the 4870 I had worked in his 1,1 2.66 Quad Core Mac Pro.

 

[jeanlain]

BTW, OWC found the 5770 works in 2006 - 2009.
They said the 5870 works in the 2008-2009 -- just like I found out -- but they said it won't work in their 2006. But I know of at least one 2006 that it works in.

I remember some postings here or in some forum about the 2006 models having two different Boot ROM versions or SMC versions. One boot the 4870 and one would not. Do any of you remember that?

Bolding mine. Isn't there a contradiction in the OWC report?
EDIT: I overlooked the difference 5770 =! 5870

I'm not aware of the 4870 not working in some 2006 Mac Pros. But maybe these didn't have the appropriate firmware update (Apples released a couple of updates for the early models).

Barefeats (Rob ART?), it would be interesting to test MDP output in Windows, with up-to-date drivers, to see if it's a hardware or software issue. Another possibility would be to use the HD from the 2010 Mac Pro.

There is also the possibility that the 5870 shipping in 2010 Mac Pro slightly differs from the one that can be purchased separately. In fact, the current unavailability of this card suggests it differs from that shipping in Mac Pro.

 

[svale]

There is also the possibility that the 5870 shipping in 2010 Mac Pro slightly differs from the one that can be purchased separately. In fact, the current unavailability of this card suggests it differs from that shipping in Mac Pro.

It's probably more a case of Apple having a limited supply which they're reserving to satisfy this initial influx of Mac Pro orders.

 

[Cindori]

There is also the possibility that the 5870 shipping in 2010 Mac Pro slightly differs from the one that can be purchased separately. In fact, the current unavailability of this card suggests it differs from that shipping in Mac Pro.

or that apple rather sell a machine for $4000 then a card for $400

 

[jeanlain]

I don't think they expect anyone to purchase a $4000 machine instead of waiting a few weeks for a graphics upgrade.
But the limited supply can be the reason, I agree.