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Solder on your own RAM
- Thread starter shnn2011
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The TDP of the 6770M is 35W. The TDP of the 780M is 122W.
Want to re-think that statement?
Well, I believe that this has, as they saying goes, become a matter of casting pearls before swine. This is something I do all the time with different devices and it works great for me (as seen in the examples).
You people who only complain and look at the negative should open your eyes to the real world of knowledge.
I am a member of a community supported laboratory 501C NPO that has created many 3D printers, LASER cutters . . . and we are working on an Electron gun based chip doper. Our total monthly rent alone is over $4K a month.
For a person to make an assessment that all of the audience here is of a certain skill level and is incapable of learning is simply beyond ridiculous.
For someone to make the statement that I must have never run a business without knowing me is callous and quite ignorant.
Further, it is quite disrespectful to the community at large for someone to post an assumption which is implicit of their inadequacy or "level" of ability and or knowledge.
Why don't the ones who want to make the noise and cast negative opinions do so. . .
Get your temporary satisfaction for your manipulative and maladaptive developed social skills, and continue with your despotic and tyranic position in striking at everyone who dares to share knowledge with others. See how well that works out for you.
I don't believe that voicing my opinion is drama. I believe that that is the purpose for a forum.
If you believe that you know better everyone and their skill set, why join a forum? Why not make a static website that caters to everyone and their knowledge and or "level" since you know everyone here better than themselves.
Further you spot a bunch of speculative unverifiable nonsense into my thread and then take a stance as if your the Mac Rumor forum users's hero? Rescuing them from my statements and offering your two cents?
If you had such strong beliefs and thoughts then why is it now that your voicing them and in my thread?
Well, if we go by skill then by all means I'll show you mine.
I'm a PCB Quality Engineer, certified by the SMTA organization. I work for Empire Electronics Inc, we make PCB products for one of the most picky and demanding industries, the auto industry.
We make LED, Driver and computer PCBs for Chrysler, Honda, Hyundai, VW and Ford.
In other words, I assure the quality of PCB components for these vehicles. I have to see everything is done right. So, in a sense, my skill level is at a point I can with confidence assume that what you are trying to promote is madness in itself. No average person should be doing BGA rework. Even our certified technicians have troubles... hell, it takes me quite a while and even then, I make mistakes. Rest assured, I use an Laser oriented AOI inspection and X-Ray machine to confirm that my reworks in any PCB are done correctly.
That's absolutely wonderful. At our lab we built our own X-Ray machines from salvaged parts. And are working to repair a donated electron microscope. We even traveled to Africa to repair some of their medical machines on one of our missions. Would you like sources?
So what's the point of this pissing contest anyway?
So what's the point of this pissing contest anyway?
Exactly what most of the readers are wondering.
As for the building your own x-ray machines, repairing an electron microscope, good for you. But that doesn't necessarily make you an expert on all things electronic.
What we are trying to say here is the AVERAGE JOE cannot do this. Think about it for a minute. I bet 25% of posts here are related to simple, easy to fix computer issues that you would think anybody could do. But not everyone is as electronically inclined as you. I have to write a list for people who want to turn on our entertainment system (seriously, I have a 3 page document detailing most possible outcomes and uses), while you could probably figure it out in 5 minutes because you have more skill and interest than they do.
Sure, theres the off percentage of people that are interested in doing this. But those that actually would try it, would need to get the right tools and skills needed. And we are talking $3,000 tools here, and a LOT of time developing skills. Maybe a few would go and try it, the very interested, and the willing, but they still need the skills to do this! You said this a few posts back:
I agree with you. In fact, I couldn't agree more. I 100% agree with everything you said there. But he didn't state all of the audience here is not willing to learn, but the vast majority would rather not spend the time, energy, and money doing this if it is not a full time profession or serious hobby. They are not interested enough! Simple as that.
You seem to think that since people say that others won't do this is because they CAN'T do it. People don't do this because they do not want it. If everybody tomorrow called an apple store and wanted a RAM upgrade, I bet apple would jump to make it happen. But people don't.
You also said this
I fail to see how this matters at all. Apple builds computers, and offers the option to increase the RAM capacity at the time of purchase. To them, it is not worth the time, money, and equipment to do after-purchase upgrades on these models if you could simply buy the computer with more memory in the fist place. Sure, it wouldn't hurt to bump the memory a bit, but you cannot get more than 16gb of RAM in any macbook to date! Sure, a better graphics card could be possible, but Apple tends to be pretty tight in their specifications, and getting a higher powered graphics card would use more power and generate more heat (and for laptops that can exceed 105°C, is this a good idea?). Apple wants money and thin laptops, not the highest specs or fastest.
Now please try not to chew me out on this. I am not disagreeing with your idea. It is perfectly logical, and entirely possible to upgrade your own RAM or even graphics. But I'm sure if there was a need for it, people would be advertising for services by now. But few people I know would be willing to risk a 2k+ laptop for a slightly better graphics card or 8gb more RAM, especially with the price of labor. If you went and did this successfully, I would be pretty awed. I try to encourage the spread of information like this and promote it because it is stuff I LOVE to do. This is what I am getting my degree in, and spending the rest of my life doing most likely. But stuff like this, you need a lot of skill and a lot of practice. Building laser cutters probably doesn't involve high precision BGA rework. So I would suggest, if you really want this to happen, go get the tools and skills and do this yourself to prove it, instead of hoping someone else has the exact same stance as you. Just my opinion.
All the best to you.
Thomas
2 cents from a beginner/reflow hobbyist:
I feel the OP's pain, and I think he was directing his rant for an audience who knows their way around a soldering iron. Of course Avg Joe's shouldn't try this, but that doesn't mean a few adventurous hooligans can't grab a cheap rMBP (with busted screen, casing, etc) and try this out, for the sake of DYI's everywhere. Some nutjob 1st tried baking their expensive mbp logic board in an oven, and now , years later, it's a proven method of revitalizing graphix chip issue macs. (I know, big diff between a dead LB and a $2500 rMBP, lol)
The real trick would be to figure out how to solder on a modified ram rack, so you could change chips like the cMBP. Whoever gets that done (with accompanied firmware solution) has my vote for GODMODE. >_<
[I know, I'm just dreaming here folks. IDK if there's even room in the case for such a mod (solder ram rack interface package with cable leading to ram rack mounted in the empty superdrive bay?), but if said hackgineer practiced on cheaper ram-soldered gear until perfecting it, it could mean that dream comes true. ]
LET THE YELLING COMMENCE, LMAO
I feel the OP's pain, and I think he was directing his rant for an audience who knows their way around a soldering iron. Of course Avg Joe's shouldn't try this, but that doesn't mean a few adventurous hooligans can't grab a cheap rMBP (with busted screen, casing, etc) and try this out, for the sake of DYI's everywhere. Some nutjob 1st tried baking their expensive mbp logic board in an oven, and now , years later, it's a proven method of revitalizing graphix chip issue macs. (I know, big diff between a dead LB and a $2500 rMBP, lol)
The real trick would be to figure out how to solder on a modified ram rack, so you could change chips like the cMBP. Whoever gets that done (with accompanied firmware solution) has my vote for GODMODE. >_<
[I know, I'm just dreaming here folks. IDK if there's even room in the case for such a mod (solder ram rack interface package with cable leading to ram rack mounted in the empty superdrive bay?), but if said hackgineer practiced on cheaper ram-soldered gear until perfecting it, it could mean that dream comes true. ]
LET THE YELLING COMMENCE, LMAO
Agreed. Like I said, (and I admit I was a bit too negative in my last post. Sorry.), this really has to be one of those things someone has to do before anybody believes them. So if someone wants go to ahead and try with a $2500 laptop... be careful
rMBPs have no superdrive (and thus, no real extra room). However cMBPs have optical drives but *ahem* removable RAM chips. Lol. If only...
There is no harm in dreaming, but when you want dreams to get to reality is the hard part.
I was looking everywhere for this and finally found it. This was once thought to be impossible as well.
Although it is old and the phone considered crappy by today's standards the work done is masterful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkFW_Ad8j1g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
You guys should really check this video out.
Although it is old and the phone considered crappy by today's standards the work done is masterful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkFW_Ad8j1g&feature=youtube_gdata_player
You guys should really check this video out.
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Doesn't matter what you mean. Two minutes with Google would have given you the answer instead of just idly posting.
Hey!!! That heat gun doesn't look like the one's they have at Home Depot!!!
Actually, I thought the video is slick, but the tools and skills required to do it properly are not the norm. I mean seriously, even basic soldering is beyond the skills of most people.
If you can do it, more power to ya!
Actually, I thought the video is slick, but the tools and skills required to do it properly are not the norm. I mean seriously, even basic soldering is beyond the skills of most people.
If you can do it, more power to ya!
All the people who don't like this idea should keep their negativity and oversized egos out of the thread. As for me, I fully support the idea and eagerly await results from the first brave soul to take the challenge.
shnn2011, if you really do all this DIY stuff I would expect a video from you shortly. Real action goes far to silence the critics.
shnn2011, if you really do all this DIY stuff I would expect a video from you shortly. Real action goes far to silence the critics.
Will you be financially responsible for these inspirations? I can pretty much guarantee you that the majority of people who attempt this will end up bricking their machine, and unless you're going to bankroll this project, it's a ridiculous suggestion.
The smart option is to sell your machine and buy one with the amount of ram you want.
Starting your post with this is where you got yourself in trouble OP. Whether you thought about it or not, this is a somewhat negative tone to begin a thread with, and if there's one thing I know about posting on the internet is that someone somewhere will take offense to negativity (no matter how small it seems).
Anyway, it seems you did go show a few examples of people capable of doing this modification. But at the end of the day, it isn't worth it. I'm a gadget hacker at heart, nothing to compare with you or others in this thread but I very assuredly know when a certain hack just isn't worth the risk. Gotta weight the risk vs. the benefit.
Most likely as these Macs with soldered memory become quite a bit older people will get more daring to try and solder on more RAM (less risk).
It is really not a big deal for me or many others to do something like this.
Where you limit yourself is where you prevent yourself from learning by not ever taking a first step.
If money is an issue and it is a risk for you, then learn on cheaper equipment until you can do it.
Regardless a negative tone is more like, as you say, "Starting your post with this is where you got yourself in trouble OP."
You see this as a negative post, but I am sure if is not. Many have learned from this and hopefully have been inspired to venture into learning more about electronics. I can't in any regard consider such a wonderful discussion anything less than a great exchange of ideas.
Regardless, thank you for your input. Having both "can-do", and "can't-do" attitudes only makes this discussion more intriguing to many readers.
I'm in no way saying "I can't do" or "refuse to try" this modification, I choose not to because it's just not worth it to me.
So, then we are in agreement. For many people it is not worth it to install a PCI card.
But, for someone who learns to do it, it becomes a normal thing.
The learning curb may be higher, but by no means is it even remotely close to impossible.
Plus there are many places that will do this for you.
Well I think it's crap that a pro laptop has to have soldered down RAM in the first place. I don't think it will stop me getting another macbook but I don't know why they can't just keep the soldered RAM to the macbook air range. If you want something thin and lightweight then get a macbook air, don't start mucking around with the pro range.
This has been discussed often here and in other forums. You are using bad information. Dunno if you want to take a 50% chance of bricking your Mac and the new RAM chips you just purchased.
These are complex multilayer boards that use environmental solder that is difficult to work with. In the factory we routinely repair multilayer PC cards (replacing bad chips) similar to the complexity of the Mac motherboard, using sophisticated equipment and very talented technicians. We found the yield of replacing chips complex as RAM is about 50%, i.e. we break 50% of the boards, mostly during chip removal. I would guess near 0% yield using a soldering iron and blow dryer.
Trying to remove chips and solder on new ones sometimes makes sense where you have hundreds of boards that are bricks anyway and its less money to repair than build new ones. You don't find repair shops doing this kind of work as it is much less money buying a new motherboard... so if you want more RAM, instead of trying to solder, just swap mother boards. You will be happier.
By the way, throwing boards into ovens to repair poor solder issues was not invented by some hobbyist. That has been a well known industrial technique for decades and simple to try. What has been the yield? Perhaps 75%?
I saw this thread and it reminded me - when I had a Vaio UX UMPC there was a guy doing upgrades of the BGA CPU from a single core to a dual core.
And he was offering it as a service - you bought the CPU and paid him to put it in. I think this process must have been fairly reliable for him to be able to offer it as a service to the willing.
He was also looking into upgrading the RAM, but I don't think he found high enough density memory at the speed needed for a price that was worth it.
http://www.pocketables.com/2008/08/sony-vaio-ux-mo.html
And he was offering it as a service - you bought the CPU and paid him to put it in. I think this process must have been fairly reliable for him to be able to offer it as a service to the willing.
He was also looking into upgrading the RAM, but I don't think he found high enough density memory at the speed needed for a price that was worth it.
http://www.pocketables.com/2008/08/sony-vaio-ux-mo.html
I have done this, just not on the RMBP. I have shown examples of my work and you are welcome to see more of my work at my site www.infamousdevelopers.com also the work of my friends at http://www.txrxlabs.org is available to you.
So, then I have put up, why don't you follow your second suggestion for yourself.
Furthermore, rather than your negativity, why don't you fly in and take some of the classes. My friends will be more than happy to help you solder on your memory as well.
Look at all of the custom P.C. boards they designed. There are also many news articles that have been televised that you can look up.
Additionally, stop telling yourself that you can't do it. If you don't stop then you never will be able to do it.
But, judging by your pour manners and outburst, I can only assume that you were intellectually threatened and your response was a psychological defense, perhaps even fueled by a bit of jealousy.
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