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Originally posted by anubis
Metallica loves blaming things like kazaa and napster on their slumping record sales in the last few years. Bands like this need to wake up and realize something: maybe your CD sales are down because your music SUCKS. The last few albums released by Metallica are terrible (including St. Anger... horrible album, glad I didn't buy it). Of course, it's much easier to blame everyone and everything BUT themselves. And now because of it, they are refusing to allow iTunes to sell their songs online individually. And there's a really simple reason why... duh, because they KNOW all of their songs suck, except for maybe a couple of songs. So instead of admitting they don't have any talent, they force consumers to buy their whole album of crap.

Bands like Good Charlotte and Three Doors Down, now those are some real musicians. Every song on their albums are kickass. Bands like RHCP and Metallica need to take note and stop scapegoating online music stores.

Good Charlotte? MTV's new favorite pop-punk band? Wow...

Anyway...

Last time I checked Metallica hasn't complained about slumping sales and has had no problem selling CDs or selling out shows. Napster? What? Are we still in the year 2000? Metallica and Kazaa? What? Metallica left all the P2P bullsh*t behind 3 years ago and never looked back (why can't anyone else?). Metallica is using iTunes as a scapegoat for their fictional plight of poor CD sales? What? Where do you read that at? If yer gonna rag on something/somebody it helps to know what yer talking about. Making stuff up usually isn't the best way to present a persuasive argruement.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Good Charlotte? MTV's new favorite pop-punk band? Wow...

Anyway...

Last time I checked Metallica hasn't complained about slumping sales and has had no problem selling CDs or selling out shows. Napster? What? Are we still in the year 2000? Metallica and Kazaa? What? Metallica left all the P2P bullsh*t behind 3 years ago and never looked back (why can't anyone else?). Metallica is using iTunes as a scapegoat for their fictional plight of poor CD sales? What? Where do you read that at? If yer gonna rag on something/somebody it helps to know what yer talking about. Making stuff up usually isn't the best way to present a persuasive argruement.


Lethal
I remeber when Metallica could easily sell a million albums without any radio airplay and without videoes. This is not an arguement about whether or not Metallica has sold out or are even good musicians. This is an arguement about a band who wants to sell albums and is adimantly agaist the electronic medium in any form. And also has what seem to be very weak reasons to be against the iTunes store.
 
Re: Some Bands Say No to iTunes

Originally posted by Macrumors
This Reuters article reports that certain bands won't agree to sell albums by the song.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, Green Day and Linkin Park are cited as bands unwilling to agree to Apple's iTunes Music Store terms which require individual song sales. The reason is said to be due to "creative" concerns (according to Mark Reiter with Q Prime Management Co):



The details of Apple's iTunes Music Store agreements were briefly posted after Apple met with independent labels. Information from that meeting indicated that Apple had a single agreement for all involved and was not planning on negotiating individually.

Firstly: Will they still sell singles in the shops?

Secondly: Who cares? The reason I don't know the answer to the first question is because I wouldn't want to buy their music! When I heard on the financial news 'major bands' I waited till the list had finished and talked to the radio saying 'who are they? where are the major bands'. Seems to be that those bands have yet to bridge the Atlantic, either that or they have less fans than Bill Gates.
 
Re: Some Bands Say No to iTunes

OK, whatever. This is representative of your body of work at a specific time, that's cool, but that's like saying that radio stations should play your whole album start to finish, cause otherwise, people are hearing your "body of work" out of context. This all or nothing attitude and "body of work" bs make me think, "well, you've got 10 songs on this album, and 7 of them suck, so at this particular time, i have to think that your band sucks 70% of the time, so why should i give you 100% of my money?"

Greed kills!!
 
Re: Re: Some Bands Say No to iTunes

Originally posted by bograt
Firstly: Will they still sell singles in the shops?

Secondly: Who cares? The reason I don't know the answer to the first question is because I wouldn't want to buy their music! When I heard on the financial news 'major bands' I waited till the list had finished and talked to the radio saying 'who are they? where are the major bands'. Seems to be that those bands have yet to bridge the Atlantic, either that or they have less fans than Bill Gates.

I agree with you and I don't like any of these bands but are you talking about the list of bands on this thread? If so then where have you been? These four bands, espeically metallica and RHCP are some of the biggest bands to come out of the USA in the last 20 years. Are you seriously saying you've not heard of them?, BTW I'm in the UK too.

If you were talking about a load of other bands then i take it back, but if that is the case then you could have been a bit more specific about what the hell you are talking about! :D :p ;)
 
Originally posted by mattmack
I remeber when Metallica could easily sell a million albums without any radio airplay and without videoes. This is not an arguement about whether or not Metallica has sold out or are even good musicians. This is an arguement about a band who wants to sell albums and is adimantly agaist the electronic medium in any form. And also has what seem to be very weak reasons to be against the iTunes store.

When you buy St. Anger you get a key so you can go to Metallica's website and down load dozens of previously unleased live trax. Also, a few days before St. Anger was released Metallica had a "scavanger hunt" on their website. They posted clues to other sites which hand complete St. Anger songs "hidden" on them.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
When you buy St. Anger you get a key so you can go to Metallica's website and down load dozens of previously unleased live trax. Also, a few days before St. Anger was released Metallica had a "scavanger hunt" on their website. They posted clues to other sites which hand complete St. Anger songs "hidden" on them.


Lethal
You are right I should have said they are against the medium in which they apperently don't make a lot of cash or get self promotion from. I don't have a problem if they don't want to use itunes because they feel they are not adequately compensated for it, but don't spout the BS that they don't want to allow individual song downloads instead of an album
 
Originally posted by crees!
It's not the artists fault or Apple's.

It's the corporate music world. They (corporate) are the ones that tell the radio stations what to play. They decide what people hear one song at a time. If anyone is to blame is the corporate music industry. Once again, trying to get their way. :mad:

I found it particularly funny when the RIAA people tried to intervene in Launchcast, an online music (listening only) service, to make them get rid of their "skip this song 'cuz I hate it" button. "You MUST listen to EVERY PIECE OF CRAP WE SEND YOU!!! MUST MUST MUST!!!!"

Heh. How about I'll go listen to whatever I've RIPped into my iTunes and y'all can go scratch?
 
Originally posted by mattmack
You are right I should have said they are against the medium in which they apperently don't make a lot of cash or get self promotion from. I don't have a problem if they don't want to use itunes because they feel they are not adequately compensated for it, but don't spout the BS that they don't want to allow individual song downloads instead of an album


I don't follow your first sentence. Can you elaborate for me please?


Lethal
 
Re: Who cares?

"Those bands lost the money that I was willing to give them. There's no way that I would buy entire albums by them. But I would buy a few songs. If they don't want my money, fine."

"creative concerns" = greed"

Way too simplistic. While the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Metallica do not point a clear picture of what it is for most major label bands that haven't become zillionaires, the fact is that the conversion to a single based business makes it considerably more difficult for artists -- and bands in particular -- to make money.

Supposing you are a band whose heydey has past. You had acouple of big albums on the strength of one single on each of them. Your albums, if you're lucky, will sell 20,000-60,000 copies a year (between 250,000-600,000 bucks a year.) for several years. This is the fate of the ACDCs and Def Leppards and even Michael Jackson.

Sounds like a lot of money. More than many of us make. But not if you're a band and your business becomes a single based one over the internet.

What Apple is saying is that the business you're screwed without them and so you might as well sign up. They may be right.
But if you're a band, you might just be screwed with it too.

Suppose your band of 4 has three big hits that sell 20,000 copies each on the internet.This comes to $60,000. This btw, is almost unheard of, after a single drops off the charts. Figure that after the label takes their cut and apple takes theirs, you're left with 35 cents per copy. Now divide it by four people, and you've got about 9 cents a copy. Multiply it by 60,000. You've made a whopping $5,400 for the year.

Big difference it makes in your life to sign up with Apple, whose collection, btw, still kinda sucks. What's going on now is not a joke and it's not small stuff. It is not wrong that the major labels are out of touch with consumers or that their system has been terrible recently for creativity. But to write off the Chili Peppers for this is too easy. Even if they should bite the bullet and show some support for the service.
 
Originally posted by rDLr
LOL
Apple was pretty bold to call that system sound sosumi before. Now they probably have enough money to BUY Apple Records (or whomever owns the Beatles interest now.)

Not entirely sure who's holding the Beatles' catalog right now; for a little while Michael Jackson owned the whole thing. But I think I heard it reverted back to the creators after a while.

I'm sure Sir Paul and Ringo, and the estates of George and John still have a little legal clout. But I'm also thinking they're not very worried about this. OTOH notice you can't get any Beatles at iTMS.
 
Re: Those band shuld complain to radio stations first

Originally posted by mymemory
Show me a radio station that aired all the songs of every album!

If radio stations doesn't air a complete album why they are obligatting me to listen to their all their songs?

If radiostations can choose what songs they want to play to the entire city from any album I have the right to choose which song I want to listen too.

I agree with you completely, in fact one of my posts said the same thing - but radio stations don't choose songs. They play what the record company pays them to play. Period.
 
Re: Re: The Artist is Boss - hahahahaha

Originally posted by iLilana
Art should be the focus. A painter paints a picture and a gallery hangs the picture then sells it. The gallery gets a commision. 15-20% maximum for each item. Even if they took 30-40% it leaves well over half for the artist. A song is a painting be it crappy or not so that leaves the choice up to the buyer. I can however go to the library and look at these paintings in a book for free. I can even borrow the book to show friends this painting. I can even download the picture to my computer so long as I don't try to use it commercially. The library will even let me photocopy the page from the book.

I can't however download a single song from an artists album (from a pay site mind you)? This is absolutely ridiculous.

Difference of course being, when you view an image of a painting in a book, you're not looking at the original, just a reproduction of it. For all intents and purposes, a digital copy of a song is a exact duplicate of the one the artist is charging people to hear.
 
Re: Re: Who cares?

Originally posted by novicegeek
"Those bands lost the money that I was willing to give them. There's no way that I would buy entire albums by them. But I would buy a few songs. If they don't want my money, fine."

"creative concerns" = greed"

Way too simplistic. While the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Metallica do not point a clear picture of what it is for most major label bands that haven't become zillionaires, the fact is that the conversion to a single based business makes it considerably more difficult for artists -- and bands in particular -- to make money.

Supposing you are a band whose heydey has past. You had acouple of big albums on the strength of one single on each of them. Your albums, if you're lucky, will sell 20,000-60,000 copies a year (between 250,000-600,000 bucks a year.) for several years. This is the fate of the ACDCs and Def Leppards and even Michael Jackson.

Sounds like a lot of money. More than many of us make. But not if you're a band and your business becomes a single based one over the internet.

What Apple is saying is that the business you're screwed without them and so you might as well sign up. They may be right.
But if you're a band, you might just be screwed with it too.

Suppose your band of 4 has three big hits that sell 20,000 copies each on the internet.This comes to $60,000. This btw, is almost unheard of, after a single drops off the charts. Figure that after the label takes their cut and apple takes theirs, you're left with 35 cents per copy. Now divide it by four people, and you've got about 9 cents a copy. Multiply it by 60,000. You've made a whopping $5,400 for the year.

Ah, but therein lies the flaw in your argument.

If there are 60,000 people willing to pay $15 for your CD, then you will likely sell far more than 60,000 singles. The additional singles come from two groups:

1) Those that actually like more than one of the songs on your CD (which comprise the majority of people willing to buy your CD ... if a person only likes one song on a back-catalogue item they are more likely to either wait until it comes out in a multi-artist collection or until it is released with the one or two other songs by the artist he likes as a "Greatest Hits" collection). These people will, quite logically, either buy multiple tracks off the album (the ones they like) or the whole album.

2) People who really only like one song off your album and thus are completely unwilling to part with $15 just for that one song, but would gladly pay $1 for it.

No, you will not make the same amount as from album sales if you really have one phenomenally good song and fourteen tracks of crap. But if you have any consistency whatsoever, then the per-song model works tremendously well (allows more people to buy when otherwise they would completely pass on your works).

As for preserving album integrity ... listen, you either make albums that sell well or you don't. If you make a cohesive album, people will buy the whole album. If you make a collection of individual songs, people will buy the individual songs they enjoy listening to. If you make one good song and ten tracks of filler, then, sorry, you get $1 only!
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I don't follow your first sentence. Can you elaborate for me please?


Lethal
I was just saying that they seem to be dead set against the electronic medium when it is not self promoting (such as their web site) or make them more cash (teasers for buying the album). I do not have a problem with their pursuit of P2P sharing of files because you do have the problem of piracy, but when they make a stand against the itunes store by saying they only want you to buy the album I believe they are doing it because they don't make as much of a profit on it
 
Re: Re: Re: The Artist is Boss - hahahahaha

Originally posted by XForge
Difference of course being, when you view an image of a painting in a book, you're not looking at the original, just a reproduction of it. For all intents and purposes, a digital copy of a song is a exact duplicate of the one the artist is charging people to hear.
one that you have paid for though
 
Artist!

The only musician who has taken his music to the nth degree as art has been Jean Michel Jarre. Music for supermarkets was auctioned to the highest bidder, after the sale the mastercopy was destroyed, there is only one copy. Using the art analogy we are all only purchasing prints and not originals. Perhaps if the Artists were to put the master tapes on sale then they could sell the entire album?:D
I am not so stupid as to believe this as a realistic reality. Those who choose not to make their product available, will reduce their target market and as a consequence their sales.:D
 
Originally posted by mattmack
I was just saying that they seem to be dead set against the electronic medium when it is not self promoting (such as their web site) or make them more cash (teasers for buying the album). I do not have a problem with their pursuit of P2P sharing of files because you do have the problem of piracy, but when they make a stand against the itunes store by saying they only want you to buy the album I believe they are doing it because they don't make as much of a profit on it


Now I'm just totally confused. You are saying Metallica is agianst the web as a medium for music distribution except when it either makes them money or is used as a promotional tool. But that is exactly what bands (and companies, and people) are using the web for. Making money and/or self-promotion which will hopefully lead to making money. Bands that are going w/iTMS are making money off it and they, especially smaller bands, are gainig exposure thru it. And, getting more general, almost every band has a website w/self-promoting extras on it (videos, pix, screen savers, songs/clips ect.,).

What stand has Metallica made against iTMS? Their management company just said they band doesn't want to be a part of it. It's not like they are bashing it or trying to destroy it or anything. They just don't want to join up.

If yer underlying point is that you think Metallica thinks they can making more money selling albums and not individual trax on-line so they chose to only sell albums then all I can say is you might be right. But by trying to add all this baggage that Metallica is anti-web or something is just inaccurate and, IMO, clouds your main point which is that you think Metallica has shunned iTMS because they believe they will make more money selling just albums and not individual trax.


Lethal
 
Originally posted by XForge
Not entirely sure who's holding the Beatles' catalog right now; for a little while Michael Jackson owned the whole thing. But I think I heard it reverted back to the creators after a while.

I'm sure Sir Paul and Ringo, and the estates of George and John still have a little legal clout. But I'm also thinking they're not very worried about this. OTOH notice you can't get any Beatles at iTMS.

Well, Michael Jackson owns the rights to most of the songs, not the recordings. That is why you might hear a crappy cover of a Beatles song in a commercial, but you never hear the original. That is also why you have a ton of covers of beatles songs on iTMS, but not beatles recordings.
 
"quote:
Originally posted by mymemory
Show me a radio station that aired all the songs of every album!

If radio stations doesn't air a complete album why they are obligatting me to listen to their all their songs?

If radiostations can choose what songs they want to play to the entire city from any album I have the right to choose which song I want to listen too. "

Bands or radio stations don't choose the music to play on the radio. There's this committee that looks at an artists' CD and then they say, "Hmm... We like this one. It'll promote you. We want it on the radio." Nobody important has the right to choose which song is played on the station. Some random people do. This info coming from an article by a band's interview (don't remember who though).
 
The following is a list of bands I like. I would like someone to let me know how many of these bands are not on the iTunes Music Store. I do not currently own a Mac, but am planning to own one soon:

Guster
Catch 22
(hed) p.e.
Rolling Stones
The Doors
Led Zeppelin
Ozzy Osborne/Black Sabbath
Godsmack
Seether
Pink Floyd
Beatles
Nirvana
Alice in Chains
Rage Against the Machine
Foo Fighters
Nas
2pac
Bone Thugs n Harmony
Oasis
the Offspring
Pearl Jam
Sublime/Long Beach Dub All Stars
Sum 41
System of a Down
Weezer
The Who
Tom Petty

One other question - is it possible to rip songs from Cd's into the .AAC format? Thanks
 
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
What stand has Metallica made against iTMS? Their management company just said they band doesn't want to be a part of it. It's not like they are bashing it or trying to destroy it or anything. They just don't want to join up.

Lethal
They have taken a stand against it by saying that they will not participate. I agree that I might have had a little anti metalicca propaganda in there but what I am trying to say is that the stand they are taking
"If you download a single, you may ignore the other tracks on the album," he said. "When our artists record a body of work, it's what they deem to be representative of their careers at that time."
Is bull because you can require the album to be downloaded as a whole.
I believe that they do not like the liberal licensing terms that come with the itms agreement and thereby getting my "anti web" stance by Metallicca. It seems they don't like people making copies of there music whether they own it or not.

PS I am biased against metalicca I believe they have sold out and this might be influencing my opinion on the issue, but if they don't want to participate they just lose a broader customer base IMO
 
Originally posted by mattmack

PS I am biased against metalicca I believe they have sold out and this might be influencing my opinion on the issue, but if they don't want to participate they just lose a broader customer base IMO

Metallica are a bunch of greedy, middle-aged businessmen. They are so far out of touch with their fans, it's obscene. Dinosaurs of the rock world.
 
Originally posted by Nawlins
One other question - is it possible to rip songs from Cd's into the .AAC format? Thanks

If you're in the US, you can probably get most (all?) of that music on iTMS. I'd check, but I'm not on my Mac right now. And, yes, you can rip your CD's to AAC. I started ripping my small CD collection into mp3 format and decided to start it again after the new iTunes was released.

You should check out apple.com for more info on iTunes.

Squire
 
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