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some guy's don't get it...

T

troymcclure

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 18, 2003
8
0
germany
first of all this should not be taken as an insult but as something some guys may be think about.

First of all I don't prfer macs or pcs both have their advantages and disadvantages

i've been browsing this forum for a while and I always hear people talking about "crappy unstable pcs and windows xp" many people here compare macs with cheap supermarket pc's or entry level dell machines which are not much better.

right now I only use PC at home, but I have worked with macs and I know people who use them.

I have a custum bulit P IV with windows xp and the machine has not ever crashed a single time. sure sometimes software can hang or crash (no major software crashed so far, only shareware stuff or sometimes the internet explorer)

the machine is quiet, fast and stable. and the greatest thing is: it's way cheaper than the cheapest desktop mac (excluding the non-expandable emac series)

One thing I must admit: It doesn't look a beautiful as a mac

you can't compare bananas with apples ;-) if you compare a mac with a pc use a well configured systems to be fair. if you do that the current facts are, that pcs are ahead when it comes to the price-performance-ratio. I'm going to buy a 12" inch powerbook soon,but not for it's speed but for its compatibility and a compareable pc notebook would be 200€ more expensive. some pc guys do these wrong comparisons too, when they say "your powerbook is too expensive, you can get a pc notebook for 999,-€" theay are comparing a cheap heavy plastic thing to a small lightweight alubook....that's wrong as well....so if you compare, do it right. maybe we would have less mac vs. pc wars then... regrards
 
I agree

I use only Macs, but adament (sp?) Mac user's who always bash Windows, for being unstable, and so easily succeptible to crashes
really are basing their oppinion of Windows machines that are bought at a store, such as Best Buy, or Circuit City.

All of my friends who use Windows machines, have built there own , and they have had little to no problems with them, and the problems they had were easily fixed, costed them little time, and money.
 
i agree too

and i never have bashed pc's on this forum...at least i don't think so...

i use a mac cause i like it better thats it, and if someone likes a pc better, great. i don't really care. the topics i'd rather discuss are things specifically about pc. or specifically about macs. not which is better or worse.

i opened a thread about building my own gaming pc and i was happy that there were no posts that went..."what? you want to buy a pc? duh your stupid macs a better.."
 
I've been browsing many mac forums in the last time for getting information about the 12" powerbook...retrospectively I must admit that I am not absolutely sure if the majority of these posts were from the macrumors board or from anywhere else. maybe some post were just "glueing" in my head... some mac people I met (in real life) were very religious about thier preference. Their arguments were just like "yeah it's better and M$ sucks" or "your pc looks ugly"... hearing and reading that all the time jussed pissed me off...One time I had a good laugh, when I was working in a pro tools studio (for those who don't know it's the rolls royce of audio recording system) with a g4 quicksilver and thang thing crashed several time, while my native home studio that costs about 150.000€ less doesn't crash...but I still liked the g4 for it's beautiful case :D by the way it was an os 9 machine os x would probably have been better...
 
your post is well intended and i agree with you and other posters.

that said, countering

"always crashing PCs"

with

"i have such-and-such PC and it has never crashed on me"

is equally silly.

one machine and one personal experience doesn't define anything about the stability of the system.

of course, it's silly these days to blindly cover all PCs and say they "crash all the time," which was the original point of your post.

the choice word i like to use these days is that X is smoother and more robust than XP/2000. XP/2000 don't crash but they just feel clunky to me...
 
The point is, like it or not, you have to pick a side. It's foolish to think that anyone is so hell-bent on performance that they're willing to leap from one platform to the next with no regard to the time, effort or money needed to keep pace.

I think the vast majority of people who argue pure performance numbers are more interested in gaming than real work.
 
Yeah, for the most part 2000/Xp don't crash as often as older Windows versions, but it's a lot less compatible than a Mac with certain peripherals. I don't know, I've had plenty of people who forget their driver CDs and resulted in me having to scour the internet for multiple days for drivers. I know this is because of the numerous hardware configurations that XP/2000 can run on, but still, I'd rather pay a little extra for this connivence. Not to mention the XP/2000 machines' network neighborhood is a little flaky here on campus. I don't know why, it just is. I had to show someone the other day how to pull up her shared drive on a mac because the Windows ones weren't working for networking. Oh well, thus is the price you face. I am considering swiping one of my mom's PCs during Thanksgiving and buying a wireless card to use as a server/base-station type of thing. Plus you can password protect Windows shared printers, I haven't figured out how to make my printer password protected on my Mac. Still, PC or Mac it's just your priorities nowadays. I still suggest PCs to people if they really want to play a lot of games or need some-sort of ability not available on the Mac (I.E. MSN messenger video conf) but if you and to do anything that doesn't require a PC, I'd bring up the idea of a Mac. Of course I always crack a smile when some bigot PC user on my floor needs my help fixing their computer.
 
Originally posted by rt_brained
I think the vast majority of people who argue pure performance numbers are more interested in gaming than real work.
Click to expand...

probably manyof them but another scenario where you need high performance is native audio and video processing and editing. and there I'm quite satisfied with my pc, because a similar performing mac (g5) would cost 1000 euros more...
 
When I boot my Dell Laptop there's an option before the splash screen... To boot into "Windows 2000 Professional" or boot into the "Windows 2000 recovery console"... Now, I'm not an expert or anything... but, when there's two options.. to run an OS, or fix files from last time you ran an OS... I don't want to use that OS!

You can build 'em cheap, you can tweak and modify... but you can't trust 'em. :)
 
Re: I agree

Originally posted by dave1234
I use only Macs, but adament (sp?) Mac user's who always bash Windows, for being unstable, and so easily succeptible to crashes
really are basing their oppinion of Windows machines that are bought at a store, such as Best Buy, or Circuit City.

All of my friends who use Windows machines, have built there own , and they have had little to no problems with them, and the problems they had were easily fixed, costed them little time, and money.
Click to expand...

I think it is a valid comparison. How many mac users custom bild their machines.. we don't -- because we don't need to. they work out of the box, most PC users don't build their own machines either. they buy them at circuit city and best buy.

when I come to work I have a generic compaq EVO, P4, etc. I really am not very happy with it. It has 512K ram and has trouble with the operating system sometimes. (XP) It is not custom built. Granted -- XP is much better then 9x/NT, buut I still prefer my Mac. The only times I have to reboot it is when I run a system update or install software that requires it. It has gone months without rebooting, no memory problems, no crashing.

My PC can't go more then 3 days before it gives up

You might say that computers should be rebooted more often. I say -- why, I don't have to do it on my mac.

My last job
I had a mac and PC on a ups and the mac was up for 4 months without a reboot. PC crashed all the time (dual xeon from dell).
worked better with one processor
 
the main problem is: apple is one company that builds computers capable of running mac os. there are no others...

you can build and configure pc's from parts that are made by many many manufacturers. there's is much crap on the market.

the hardest thing is to find out which components match und run stable and fast together. if you know what you do you can surly build a computer that is as fast ( or even faster) and as stable as a mac but costs about half the price of a comparble mac. of course you can't build a pc that is as beautiful as a mac (except if you put a pc in a macs case). and yes, that will be a machine you can trust ;)

I have configures pcs for many friends and they were always satisfied. if someone who doesn't have a clue about configuration want's a computer and doesn't know someone who will configure it for him I would say get a mac. If someone want's a machine that will do the same work for less money and has someone who configures it for him, I would say: get a pc. if money wouldn't count I would buy a mac, because they look better and I'm a fan of apple's design.

I wonder why apple has no competively priced desktops, because their notebooks' prices can compete with pcs...
 
Originally posted by troymcclure
I wonder why apple has no competively priced desktops, because their notebooks' prices can compete with pcs...
Click to expand...

-troymcclure

They do, from a TCO perspective.

But then, few people think about that.
 
I agree completely. I was first a PC "fanboy", then slowly converted over to a Mac "fanboy", then I started to actually hear the crap that was coming out of my mouth. I use both a Dual G4 PowerMac and a home built P4C system (quality components, no cheap rubbish). Both are rock solid, both are fast. I want, use, and need them both.
It drives me nuts when browsing MR to see blind Mac fanboys bashing PC's, and I try (when I can be bothered) to make an argument for the PC. At the same time when I am browsing my PC forums and see PC fanboys bashing Macs just as blindly, it get on my nerves!

Can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by cr2sh
When I boot my Dell Laptop there's an option before the splash screen... To boot into "Windows 2000 Professional" or boot into the "Windows 2000 recovery console"... Now, I'm not an expert or anything... but, when there's two options.. to run an OS, or fix files from last time you ran an OS... I don't want to use that OS!

You can build 'em cheap, you can tweak and modify... but you can't trust 'em. :)
Click to expand...
hmmm...good idea, have a go at Windows because it has provided you with an easily accessible way of recovery should anything major go wrong :rolleyes:
 
You guys are right about PC's not crashing "all the time", that's history. But I used to own a Compaq PC, and it would crash about 3-4 times a week. Windows is more stable than it used to be, but the Mac is still more stable than that, thanks to Unix.
 
I hope I will experience that stability with my powerbook in a few months.. :D but it won't be more stable than my PC , because I have no stability problems with my PC at all. I hope they will work nicely together...
 
Originally posted by howard

i opened a thread about building my own gaming pc and i was happy that there were no posts that went..."what? you want to buy a pc? duh your stupid macs a better.."
Click to expand...
You will if you go to spymac! :D
 
Originally posted by troymcclure
the main problem is: apple is one company that builds computers capable of running mac os. there are no others...

you can build and configure pc's from parts that are made by many many manufacturers. there's is much crap on the market.

the hardest thing is to find out which components match und run stable and fast together. if you know what you do you can surly build a computer that is as fast ( or even faster) and as stable as a mac but costs about half the price of a comparble mac. of course you can't build a pc that is as beautiful as a mac (except if you put a pc in a macs case). and yes, that will be a machine you can trust ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly. I have been an Apple user (exclusively) since the ][+, then a Mac Plus, Perfoma 400, etc... to the 12" PB I ordered today :D I enjoy the fact that I can expect my system to perform the way I expect it to since the same vendor that writes the OS specs the processors, etc... How can you expect PC's to be as stable as a Mac when hundreds of vendors have their own version of a PC, and then M$ is supposed to write an OS that will take all of that into acoount? The people who buy PC's made by quality vendors understand this, and are the ones who generally have very stable machines. I absolutely love my Macs, but could see myself owning a PC as a compliment to my Macs if the need arose. I must admit though that I would feel like I'm in a bit over my head, as I have used Apples for over 20 years, but I shouldn't exclude the possibility.
 
OK this is going to be long

Here's my view on things.

If you are somewhat experienced with computers and know how to properly build/maintain a Windows based PC, it is entirely possible that you may never have problems with it crashing or freezing and may have a totally enjoyable experience. I've built several very nice PCs (including my parents' PCs which I maintain for them), and they never have the problems that people describe on these boards. That's due in part to the fact that I've been a Windows user since Windows 3.11, most of the classes I've taken for my CIT major dealt with Microsoft software platforms, plus I'm an MCSA in Windows 2000! Not that you have to be an MCSA to use Windows mind you, however, the average computer user (read: novice) doesn't know how to (or that they should):

a. keep their computer clean
b. run a defrag every once in a while
c. not open every pop-up/spam/attachment you receive
d. install patches/updates
...you get the drift...

Windows isn't built in a way that a novice can install it, use it forever and never have a problem with it. It needs to be "maintained." Macs, on the other hand, aren't like that. Yes, while there are certain things you should do every once in a while just to make sure everything is tip-top, chances are (at least compared to a Windows machine) you could never do any type of maintenance and get away with it. This probably doesn't apply to most of the people on this forum (most of whom do a clean install everytime a new major upgrade to the OS comes out), but I'm sure there are a lot of computer users out there who have Macs that they bought several years ago and are still running the original installation of the OS that came with the computer, with NO problems. Never had to reinstall, no software conflicts after adding and removing programs through the years, etc.

Here's a real-life example. We are migrating to Office XP at work--several hundred machines--and it's just been HELL. Some of the computers upgrade successfully. Some of them don't. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to why some work and some don't. For the ones that don't, we end up having to uninstall Office 2000 first. Then, once we get it installed, it kills other applications. Now when you open this or that program, it wants you to insert the install disc. It's because with Windows, when you install a program, it doesn't just go into your Program Files folder. No. It goes in your Program Files, your system folder, your registry, .INI files, blah blah blah, so even when you try to uninstall/upgrade a program, there's still remnants of the old program all over the place, just waiting to cause problems. Now, being the only Mac user, my coworkers all make fun of me (the network admin specifically), but every once in a while I'll tell them how something works on a Mac as compared to how it works on a PC, and they kind of give me this look of disbelief. I explain to them, "You know, if these were Macs, all you'd have to do is trash the old Office and drag the new Office to the Applications folder. Boom. Installed." "What do you mean 'you don't have to uninstall it?' What do you mean 'all you have to do is delete the program?'"

It's the differences like that which will always make the Mac platform better than a Windows PC. Microsoft just has this way of over-complicating EVERYTHING, whereas Apple makes it easy enough for a 6-year old to understand, while still making it professional grade/crashproof/feature-rich enough for the above-average user.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to bed :)
 
Re: OK this is going to be long

Originally posted by MattG
"What do you mean 'you don't have to uninstall it?' What do you mean 'all you have to do is delete the program?"
Click to expand...

-MattG

I love it when I get responses like this. I already have an answer prepared:

Yes.

That gets a few stares.
 
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