Originally posted by 5300cs
I agree; I don't want to hear how wonderful XP is. I'm perfectly satisfied with my 15+ Macs
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some guy's don't get it...
- Thread starter troymcclure
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AMEN!
@cubist
thanks but my savings are 850 so far and the german refurb store is only open on wednesdays...I think there are no 1GHz 12" powerbooks so far. I don't want the old one, because the new one is faster and has usb 2.0 and DVI...
thanks but my savings are 850 so far and the german refurb store is only open on wednesdays...I think there are no 1GHz 12" powerbooks so far. I don't want the old one, because the new one is faster and has usb 2.0 and DVI...
Originally posted by troymcclure
I hope I will experience that stability with my powerbook in a few months..
I'm a mac zealot but i'll go easy on you troymcclure because of the simpsons reference.....
I find the title of your post ironic. Why? Well because your saying how people just dont get that the PC can be stable also.... HOWEVER... your under the illusion that the primary pull to the mac os is because of stability. A Mac is an experience truly different than that of a PC. It can not be summed up merely with buzz words such as "stability" and "usability". To own a mac is to again find joy in using a computer in day to day life. Probably the same joy you felt when first finishing up your XP box. Only for mac users this spans the life of our computer.
When windows users ask why we like our macs the look for us to say "stability" and "usability" only so they can pick their fight. I say, go buy one, you may be surprised how it grows on you. I used a pc for years before switching over 2 years ago. I haven't looked back since.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
I'd be happy to give a Wintel box a shot at replacing my aging beige minitower if it wasn't for one thingsoftware costs. As a designer, illustrator and animator, my base set of apps includes Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Quark, Electric Image, After Effects ... not to mention plug-ins, the total of which would cost far more than any Mac available.
XP seems fine for those that are used to it, and I'm sure I'd be comfortable in a couple months time, but right now that direction would be like starting over.
I'm pretty much stuck with Apple because of software investments.
XP seems fine for those that are used to it, and I'm sure I'd be comfortable in a couple months time, but right now that direction would be like starting over.
I'm pretty much stuck with Apple because of software investments.
-jayscheuerle
And this, is one off the reasons why switching in either direction isn't as easy, or cheap, as Apple likes to market.
Just my 2 cents for poops and giggles...
I have a 1ghZ tiBook (my second, the first was the 550) at home and a dual 2gHz Xeon Compaq Evo W6000 workstation at work. Both were out of the box (well, I installed the second processor on the workstation, but thats no biggie) and both run great. The Xeon runs XP, and Ive never ever gotten a virus, or had any crashes. Its a powerouse for 3D animation, and I love it.
The tiBook is fun to use, does everything I ask of it (including animation with Maya) and rarely skips a beat. For my next computer, Im considering the (tba) dual 2.5 gHz G5.
Point is, if you know what you are doing, maintain your computers, you can easily use and love both. I never download anything suspicious, or open any email attachments from people I dont know.
One other thing is this: People may bash XP and say how OSX is so much better, but sometimes I must say that XP has some major user-advantages. The taskbar is great, I think superior to the Dock. Ever try to close a slew of pop-ups in OSX? You have to actually click the close button on the window instead of right clicking the taskbar and hitting close. Very convenient. Also, Windows XP is snappy. And I mean SNAPPY like OS9 was. OSX is still a bit too sluggish for me (but Im using Jag, not Panther, but still. XP is older than Panther) Also, the browser-based navigation in XP is awesome. No clicking through side-scrolling menus for me, thank you. Just browse through your files and change directories just by typing in the address bar. Sometimes in OSX Ill have 4 windows open and forget what some of them are. Not in XP, the whole address is displayed on the top of the wondow. Plus, the save menu actually sorts by date modified! Hot damn! And you can change file names in the save menu, or even move files around. Not so in OSX.
Okay, so that was a bit anal, I know, but I must agree that it isnt always painfully obvious to Windows users WHY OSX is so much better. Again, Im an advocate and user for both, but zealousness on either side is silly, and stupid.
EDIT
Okay, another thing I was thinking about is this: I think the reason why Mac user can be so zealotous (word?) sometimes is because not-so-many years ago Apple was in danger of going under. BEfore SJ made his return, Apple almost didnt exist (think 97-98) So, now that Apple has made a comeback, people are starving to keep them afloat, thinking being a zealot will help the cause. I think we'll see less of this if Apple gains a few market share points.
I too, do not want to see Apple flounder again. I think its great to have several competing companies creating great OSes and hardware types. It keeps the competition on their toes, and the consumer always wins out. I think Apple is probably (and will be regarded as) one of the coolest and most innovative companies in this age, and I would hate to see them fall apart.
So support Apple, but dont make stupid Windows/Intel comments because them being in existance is what has helped Apple become what it is today.
I have a 1ghZ tiBook (my second, the first was the 550) at home and a dual 2gHz Xeon Compaq Evo W6000 workstation at work. Both were out of the box (well, I installed the second processor on the workstation, but thats no biggie) and both run great. The Xeon runs XP, and Ive never ever gotten a virus, or had any crashes. Its a powerouse for 3D animation, and I love it.
The tiBook is fun to use, does everything I ask of it (including animation with Maya) and rarely skips a beat. For my next computer, Im considering the (tba) dual 2.5 gHz G5.
Point is, if you know what you are doing, maintain your computers, you can easily use and love both. I never download anything suspicious, or open any email attachments from people I dont know.
One other thing is this: People may bash XP and say how OSX is so much better, but sometimes I must say that XP has some major user-advantages. The taskbar is great, I think superior to the Dock. Ever try to close a slew of pop-ups in OSX? You have to actually click the close button on the window instead of right clicking the taskbar and hitting close. Very convenient. Also, Windows XP is snappy. And I mean SNAPPY like OS9 was. OSX is still a bit too sluggish for me (but Im using Jag, not Panther, but still. XP is older than Panther) Also, the browser-based navigation in XP is awesome. No clicking through side-scrolling menus for me, thank you. Just browse through your files and change directories just by typing in the address bar. Sometimes in OSX Ill have 4 windows open and forget what some of them are. Not in XP, the whole address is displayed on the top of the wondow. Plus, the save menu actually sorts by date modified! Hot damn! And you can change file names in the save menu, or even move files around. Not so in OSX.
Okay, so that was a bit anal, I know, but I must agree that it isnt always painfully obvious to Windows users WHY OSX is so much better. Again, Im an advocate and user for both, but zealousness on either side is silly, and stupid.
EDIT
Okay, another thing I was thinking about is this: I think the reason why Mac user can be so zealotous (word?) sometimes is because not-so-many years ago Apple was in danger of going under. BEfore SJ made his return, Apple almost didnt exist (think 97-98) So, now that Apple has made a comeback, people are starving to keep them afloat, thinking being a zealot will help the cause. I think we'll see less of this if Apple gains a few market share points.
I too, do not want to see Apple flounder again. I think its great to have several competing companies creating great OSes and hardware types. It keeps the competition on their toes, and the consumer always wins out. I think Apple is probably (and will be regarded as) one of the coolest and most innovative companies in this age, and I would hate to see them fall apart.
So support Apple, but dont make stupid Windows/Intel comments because them being in existance is what has helped Apple become what it is today.
just my .02
I use both XP and OSX.
I think OSX is better from home use, and I prefer to use windows at work. That being said, XP crashes like twice a week, but i think it's the celeron processor **ignores the laughs** that's being used.
Most of the problems people see in their OS comes from 3rd partly applications. That's why XP has so many problems.
I use both XP and OSX.
I think OSX is better from home use, and I prefer to use windows at work. That being said, XP crashes like twice a week, but i think it's the celeron processor **ignores the laughs** that's being used.
Most of the problems people see in their OS comes from 3rd partly applications. That's why XP has so many problems.
-agreenster
Actually the Cult of Mac had existed long before the chokepoint of 1997. Actually, I believe that the cult was beginning to take shape in the old Apple ][ days. The introduction of the Macintosh in 1984 essentially inaugurated it.
another long one
I agree with that. I feel the current day Mac evangelist came from Guy's list, and others like it, in the mid 90's. When Apple was wiped from retail stores (at least -- not booted up) Sales men would steer users from Mac's and PC users were ridiculing mac users. And the mainstream press was killing apple.
Does anyone remember the evangelist?
I was an active letter writing, Win hating (win 95 time - I had the right)(tech support), PC techie, who loved the Mac platform. Much that hit the media was lies, the list drew in rabid mac fans. Some knowledgeable, some not. the concept was to break down the lies with facts.
My overcloking friends got their 'facts' from PC Mags and on the net, many fabricated. We would back it up with metrics, facts, and knowledge of the PC platform. We researched our topics and responded with fact. With newspapers it worked pretty well.
I can build a PC, I've made some for work. I have serviced almost every mac version ever made. Most PC users do not know anything about Mac's but bash them anyway. I bring up flaws with the operating system, XP is not solid - security issues, open code, insecure machine after a base install. These are big issues. You should not have to pass a security test before you buy a Computer -- Mac or PC. Old Win Os's were poorly written and drivers form manufacturers were poorly written. If you bundle a printer with a computer make sure the drivers work.
The security holes in XP were programmed in, it does not have to do with multiple hardware iterations, just poor software. And comparing the look and feel of Win to Mac is silly -- they have been copying the Mac os for a while. Longhorn has many OSX like features in it, As does XP.
Dave ----
here's an old quote:
Final Message
In the past two years Apple has experienced a stunning turnaround. This is due to many things including the steadfast loyalty of Apple's customers--and EvangeListas are the most steadfast of the steadfast.
The original purpose of EvangeList was to counteract the negative news about Apple and Macintosh, and I believe that EvangeList has served its purpose--fantastically, as a matter of fact. So after discussing what we should do with EvangeList with the folks at Apple, we've decided to retire the list.
Guy Kawasaki
I agree with that. I feel the current day Mac evangelist came from Guy's list, and others like it, in the mid 90's. When Apple was wiped from retail stores (at least -- not booted up) Sales men would steer users from Mac's and PC users were ridiculing mac users. And the mainstream press was killing apple.
Does anyone remember the evangelist?
I was an active letter writing, Win hating (win 95 time - I had the right)(tech support), PC techie, who loved the Mac platform. Much that hit the media was lies, the list drew in rabid mac fans. Some knowledgeable, some not. the concept was to break down the lies with facts.
My overcloking friends got their 'facts' from PC Mags and on the net, many fabricated. We would back it up with metrics, facts, and knowledge of the PC platform. We researched our topics and responded with fact. With newspapers it worked pretty well.
I can build a PC, I've made some for work. I have serviced almost every mac version ever made. Most PC users do not know anything about Mac's but bash them anyway. I bring up flaws with the operating system, XP is not solid - security issues, open code, insecure machine after a base install. These are big issues. You should not have to pass a security test before you buy a Computer -- Mac or PC. Old Win Os's were poorly written and drivers form manufacturers were poorly written. If you bundle a printer with a computer make sure the drivers work.
The security holes in XP were programmed in, it does not have to do with multiple hardware iterations, just poor software. And comparing the look and feel of Win to Mac is silly -- they have been copying the Mac os for a while. Longhorn has many OSX like features in it, As does XP.
Dave ----
here's an old quote:
Final Message
In the past two years Apple has experienced a stunning turnaround. This is due to many things including the steadfast loyalty of Apple's customers--and EvangeListas are the most steadfast of the steadfast.
The original purpose of EvangeList was to counteract the negative news about Apple and Macintosh, and I believe that EvangeList has served its purpose--fantastically, as a matter of fact. So after discussing what we should do with EvangeList with the folks at Apple, we've decided to retire the list.
Guy Kawasaki
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Command + option + W
Even more convenient.
popups.. what are they.
I have not seen a popup since safari.
<sarcasm>
you mean microsoft has not upgraded its browser to block popups.. like all other browsers on the market?
</sarcasm>
This is a wonderful way to sum it up. I remember debating about Apple on Slashdot awhile ago, and the last statement in the debate was something like:
A lot of Windows users (and anti-Mac people in general) view computers and Windows as a necessary evil. They need to get something done, and they have to put up with the operating system to do it. They get their work done or games played in spite of it. A Macintosh is different. Here, we're using a computer because we enjoy it, and getting work done to boot! Using a computer does not have to be a chore. That idea is incredibly foreign to a lot of people.
It's been this way for a long time. I was on the Evangelist in the mid-90s after using a Performa 635CD (my parents') and my Quadra 700 (with a bitchin' 17in Apple display.) You know what? I can still remember the model names and numbers of the freaking computers! How's that for devotion?
I think this is an important point that gets lost with all the praise garnered by OS X. Yes, OS 9 looks antiquated by comparison (I still run it on my PowerMac G4/400 Yikes, however) but in its day System 7 - 9 was tops. Windows and UNIX converts may scoff, but long before OS X there were still rabid Mac fanatics.
Given the choice between OS 9.2.2 and Windows XP, I'd still rather use the Mac. Probably crazy, I know...but I've got my Windows notebook on the desk in front of me, just two years old, running Windows 2000...and I don't think I've ever known the model number.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Originally posted by agreenster
Really? I use Safari everyday and I still get popups??
Command K (Block Pop-up Windows), Under "Safari" pulldown.
There's nothing wrong with (modern) PCs. Macs are just more enjoyable to use, IMO. And a mac does everything I need, so why would I have a PC also?
I use it too but it would be nice just to integrate it into the browser. That's just laziness on Microsoft's part.
Also, I've found the google toolbar to mess up some dhtml pages too but I keep it anyway.
WHY NOT?!
Fighting, arguing looses energy and resource...
I'm a dual-platform user, who has a PC Desktop, which works somehow fine, and an amazing 12"PB's user.. and I'm really fine with all my mac fans friends and PC fan friends..
If we wouldnt fight and diverse this much, maybe PCs could at lease try to reach a design and innovative perspective like macs and MAYBE OUR MACS COULD RUN MORE GAMES AND USEFUL PROGRAMS WHICH ARE PC-COMPETABLE?!
Huh?!...
'cause I don't wanna be friends with any pc users
Actually, there are Mac users that I wouldn't want to be friends with either. I've met some real jerks; everything is a competition with them to see who has the most/better hardware
I had pc friends in the past, but when I switched, they all pissed me off by making fun of me all the time.
I have a lot of Linux friends- now there's the place to be. Really cool ppl
Especially the Slackware/Debian ppl, and the BSD ppl too.
Originally posted by 5300cs
'cause I don't wanna be friends with any pc users
I already have a lot of PC user friends, what am I gonna do! ..And I dream to show them how wonderful my PB works, how nice is OSX, and when we plug our computers together to play games at night, I wanna show them how nice my white apple glows at the back of my PB
And, I dream to play Grand Theft Auto (GTA) or Need for Speed or many other games with them too.. VPC just doesnt work for game stuff..
now, I'm asking again, why shall we fight and argue with eachother.. to have less-usable systems?!
Originally posted by Thirteenva
I had no idea i was causing such a huge problem.
You are. Stop being so selfish
Back in the Old Days, when I was still using windows, I remember being only somewhat excited when a new version of windows came out.
When talking to friends, the first question was almost invariably "So is it more stable? Does it crash less often?". I've noticed since coming to OS X, when new versions come out, it's more like "What new toys did they put in it?" (Or "Is it faster now?
)All the games I personally want to play are already on the Mac, except Virtual Pool
and MAME runs on Macs- what more could you want? When I'm with my friends, the conversation almost always turns to computers, and if it's a windows person,,,, well, there isn't much to talk about.
Macs are special
Theres a reason people badmouth PC's, espeially me, and thats because, Windows PC's Suck. (please bear with my spelling, my mac ally keyboard is sucking in its ow right)
I learned the alphabet playing a game with a singing penguin on an Apple IIe, in 1985 or so. I've been an evangelist since. in all I can remember, I've only had two serious frustrations using apple computers, and both were fixed with norton software. (pre OSX days) I complain about windows, because windows is terrible, cluttered, UGLY, (mac osx is cartoonish, but it doesn't hurt my eyes or sense of taste) and 99.9999% of complaints I hear about computers, from friends, professors, co-workers, etc, comes from using windows, and usually other microsoft software. Thats not because of marketshare, it is because windows is by far an inferior system. I've used XP, and for me, its a CHORE. I agree, I thought the taskbar was very useful, until I saw the Dock in OSX. Now with exposé, it works even more wonderfully.
Pc's are useable. They can get the job done, DESPITE the OS but I would never want to use one under any circumstance, (well I use my dads computer to see what games I'm missing out on and even thats a pain). OSX is simple to use, and it works. Windows is better than it used to be, but its still no where near the alternatives, and it seems to me, to become easier to use, the operating system (and its interface) has become more complex. Sure it was snappy, when my dad first got his computer, but it slows down by the day. I would still rather use OS9 than XP
With OSX, I know exactly whats files are on my computer, I know where they are, I know how muh room each of them takes on my harddrive. Actually I've always known this on a Mac. I know where each file is, I know what each file does. I have trouble finding certain specific files on my dad's cornacopia of mickey mouse vomit, that is XP. I find windows to be functional at best, which is a shame, because with the resources microsoft has, if they really cared about improving the usability of the system, it would have surpassed Apple's operating system technology a long time ago. I think the reason a lot of Mac users get pissed at windows trumpetblowers, is because they spent their money in a company they can believe in, where windows only profits a ompany that copies a company you an believe in. The bigotry goes both ways, and if I slander a platform, I either do it in self defense, or because I strongly believe in the superiority of the one I use. Macs aren't just computers, they are lifestyle enhancing, enablers. I an go on and on but I won't but I do believe that the world would be a much better place if everyone was using a Mac. But I also believe in diversity, so maybe Macs are such great machine's because of Apple's status as 'the little guy'
Theres a reason people badmouth PC's, espeially me, and thats because, Windows PC's Suck. (please bear with my spelling, my mac ally keyboard is sucking in its ow right)
I learned the alphabet playing a game with a singing penguin on an Apple IIe, in 1985 or so. I've been an evangelist since. in all I can remember, I've only had two serious frustrations using apple computers, and both were fixed with norton software. (pre OSX days) I complain about windows, because windows is terrible, cluttered, UGLY, (mac osx is cartoonish, but it doesn't hurt my eyes or sense of taste) and 99.9999% of complaints I hear about computers, from friends, professors, co-workers, etc, comes from using windows, and usually other microsoft software. Thats not because of marketshare, it is because windows is by far an inferior system. I've used XP, and for me, its a CHORE. I agree, I thought the taskbar was very useful, until I saw the Dock in OSX. Now with exposé, it works even more wonderfully.
Pc's are useable. They can get the job done, DESPITE the OS but I would never want to use one under any circumstance, (well I use my dads computer to see what games I'm missing out on and even thats a pain). OSX is simple to use, and it works. Windows is better than it used to be, but its still no where near the alternatives, and it seems to me, to become easier to use, the operating system (and its interface) has become more complex. Sure it was snappy, when my dad first got his computer, but it slows down by the day. I would still rather use OS9 than XP
With OSX, I know exactly whats files are on my computer, I know where they are, I know how muh room each of them takes on my harddrive. Actually I've always known this on a Mac. I know where each file is, I know what each file does. I have trouble finding certain specific files on my dad's cornacopia of mickey mouse vomit, that is XP. I find windows to be functional at best, which is a shame, because with the resources microsoft has, if they really cared about improving the usability of the system, it would have surpassed Apple's operating system technology a long time ago. I think the reason a lot of Mac users get pissed at windows trumpetblowers, is because they spent their money in a company they can believe in, where windows only profits a ompany that copies a company you an believe in. The bigotry goes both ways, and if I slander a platform, I either do it in self defense, or because I strongly believe in the superiority of the one I use. Macs aren't just computers, they are lifestyle enhancing, enablers. I an go on and on but I won't but I do believe that the world would be a much better place if everyone was using a Mac. But I also believe in diversity, so maybe Macs are such great machine's because of Apple's status as 'the little guy'
I basically agree w/the tone of this thread. In fact my first post at Macrumors was a "why can't we all get along" thread too.
I've got a nearly 3yr old, home built PIII 800 running Win2k that stays up for months on end. The most common reason for shutdown/restart is installing new hard/software. I think a properly built DIY machine can be very stable as long as you research your parts, but most off the shelf PCs are just accidents waiting to happen. I've found the extra software that comes pre-installed from the factory to be a big cause of PC issues. If you have a Dell or something, wipe the HDD and do a clean install of the OS only and I swear the stability goes up by like a factor of 10.
I ended up being a switcher w/o meaning to. I purchased a Mac because I was tired of editing on my PC and also becaue I wanted FCP. The more I used the Mac the more it grew on me and I found myself using it for "normal" computing tasks even though I had purchased to be my edit workstation. I'm currently saving up for an iBook to replace my Win2k box. Not because my PC is failing me, but I just enjoy working in the Mac environment as much more than Windows. And I'm at a point in my life where I just want my computer to work. I don't have the time or energy to tinker w/it like I did in school.
Here's a great quote from a brand new switcher over at a filmmaking forum I frequent.
troymcclure,
Speed isn't the prime consideration when it comes to using a computer for video or audio work. Of course every always wants a faster machine, but up-time is more valuable than speed. There are still a lot of Avid's out there cutting hit TV shows and multimillion dollar movies that are running on 6 year old 9600's. Why? Up time. They might be slow... real, real slow in some cases, but they are damn near bullet proof. The worst feeling in the world is to be up against a dead line, or have a client in the room, and all of a sudden your machine crashes and doesn't want to get back up.
To use a racing analogy, a fast car will get you on the pole, a reliable car will get you in the winners ciricle.
Well, I think I've ranted enough for one night...
Lethal
I've got a nearly 3yr old, home built PIII 800 running Win2k that stays up for months on end. The most common reason for shutdown/restart is installing new hard/software. I think a properly built DIY machine can be very stable as long as you research your parts, but most off the shelf PCs are just accidents waiting to happen. I've found the extra software that comes pre-installed from the factory to be a big cause of PC issues. If you have a Dell or something, wipe the HDD and do a clean install of the OS only and I swear the stability goes up by like a factor of 10.
I ended up being a switcher w/o meaning to. I purchased a Mac because I was tired of editing on my PC and also becaue I wanted FCP. The more I used the Mac the more it grew on me and I found myself using it for "normal" computing tasks even though I had purchased to be my edit workstation. I'm currently saving up for an iBook to replace my Win2k box. Not because my PC is failing me, but I just enjoy working in the Mac environment as much more than Windows. And I'm at a point in my life where I just want my computer to work. I don't have the time or energy to tinker w/it like I did in school.
Here's a great quote from a brand new switcher over at a filmmaking forum I frequent.
troymcclure,
Speed isn't the prime consideration when it comes to using a computer for video or audio work. Of course every always wants a faster machine, but up-time is more valuable than speed. There are still a lot of Avid's out there cutting hit TV shows and multimillion dollar movies that are running on 6 year old 9600's. Why? Up time. They might be slow... real, real slow in some cases, but they are damn near bullet proof. The worst feeling in the world is to be up against a dead line, or have a client in the room, and all of a sudden your machine crashes and doesn't want to get back up.
To use a racing analogy, a fast car will get you on the pole, a reliable car will get you in the winners ciricle.
Well, I think I've ranted enough for one night...
Lethal