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"Users of the service will then be able to stream, whenever they want, their songs and albums directly to PCs, iPhones, iPads, and perhaps one day even cars."

What do they mean "one day even cars" ? Is this talking about streaming directly to your car stereo without plugging it into your iPhone (i.e. a new car stereo) or will it be for streaming over wifi only, so you can't stream it to your car stereo via your phone? Wifi only would be practically useless.
:confused:
 
1) Hopefully this isn’t limited to just tracks purchased in iTunes

I want to say I doubt it as the competition (amazon) allows for music to be uploaded. Actually Amazon specifically sets up their cloud for you to upload your own music. You can upload your purchased music but it isn't a given. You have to tell it to after purchasing. This is how amazon got around getting licenses. You can upload any music you like.

But then again when you think of how much better kindle books are managed compared to ibooks, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's cloud options are less than Amazon's.


"Users of the service will then be able to stream, whenever they want, their songs and albums directly to PCs, iPhones, iPads, and perhaps one day even cars."

What do they mean "one day even cars" ? Is this talking about streaming directly to your car stereo without plugging it into your iPhone (i.e. a new car stereo) or will it be for streaming over wifi only, so you can't stream it to your car stereo via your phone? Wifi only would be practically useless.
:confused:


Probably 3G/4G car stereos enabled of the future. And Apple will probably launch a satellite in a few years to service north america and compete with SiriusXM in content delivery.
 
This is great, but some people like myself are already streaming their songs and movies from home to our idevices.

I don't see the point in all this.
 
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I must be missing something here, what is the licence from the labels for, exactly?

I buy a CD, rip it, then upload the file somewhere so I can access it remotely. Where's the need for a licence to do that?

It's a moot point for me anyway, the days of me giving the major labels money are long gone and I eagerly await their demise. I won't rehash the myriad reasons why they're scum here.
 
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FYI, Lala (which Apple acquired) scanned your whole iTunes library and automatically allowed you to stream the items that matched items in their library. Anything that did not exist in their library could be uploaded and them streamed like anything else. I would be shocked if Apple's solution did anything else. Now Lala was free. I don't expect Apple's solution to be free. But if it offers this functionality via a browser and iOS app, it will be a big hit.
 
Launch internationally and you will instantly dominate Amazon and Google. Who am I kidding? I just want to be able to have iCloud (or whatever it gets called) available here in Australia either at the same time or very close to it. Not like iTunes that took years to come across, and similarly when movies was added to iTunes.
 
I hope this is how it works, this would be much more efficient than uploading our media library.
 
If the sound quality of a particular song on a user's hard drive isn't good enough, Apple will be able to replace it with a higher-quality version.

Sounds to me like you'll be able to use songs you've acquired by means other than the iTunes store, if they're considering the possibility that your copy of the song is inferior to their copy.

I can't imagine Apple would drop the prices on songs and go to a monthly subscription fee... can you imagine the backlash they'd get from people who've bought hundreds of dollars worth of music from iTunes, only to now have it both:

1.) Cost them money to play it henceforth.
2.) Cost other people nothing to buy it.

That's not just wrong, it's stealing. Or something like that. It'd be like Apple suddenly saying every movie on your computer was just a rental and you only had 24 hours left to watch them before they'd be automatically removed, regardless of whether you paid for them.
 
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FYI, Lala (which Apple acquired) scanned your whole iTunes library and automatically allowed you to stream the items that matched items in their library. Anything that did not exist in their library could be uploaded and them streamed like anything else. I would be shocked if Apple's solution did anything else. Now Lala was free. I don't expect Apple's solution to be free. But if it offers this functionality via a browser and iOS app, it will be a big hit.

I'm hoping very much that this will be the way the iTunes Streaming service works. I just hope there's not a per song "upgrade fee". At $0.30 a song, a lot of people couldn't use it. Hell, at $0.01 per song I probably wouldn't use it.
 
This is obviously going to be a service geared to the "music for the masses" crowd. Like my wife or my (adult) children. Not me. Probably not my son, either.

If it's limited to iTunes availability (which since we can't upload......) hundreds and thousands of independent artists will NOT be available. Further, artists who have opted to NOT be a part of the RIAA, or are NOT with a major label (one of the 4 big ones, basically -- three of which are located in countries other than the USA) would never receive a penny through the licensing deal anyway. (And yes, I know the RIAA is made up of hundreds, if not thousands of "labels" 98% of which are under the umbrella of one of the big 4)

I've been at this music collecting thing for 50 years. Know how much vinyl is in my house? Not to mention the shellac (78's). Tons of obscure bands -- many who only did one or two 45's, in small studios, with no more distribution than the band themselves? NONE of this music will survive through this system. Tons of this music is in my computer and my ipod.

My Son is a musician, blues at that, and most of his collection is tracks of vintage blues material, not connected to the big four. Bet that won't stream. Interesting -- he's released 4 CD's. All of which are available on iTunes. As are thousands of other independents. You wanna bet that when the bean counters tally up the tunes/tracks/streams all the independent tunes will just count as "another track" and big business will get the $$ due to the independent artists? Or will the indies not be available in the cloud? Since I own the label my Son recorded on, and he's published by my publishing company, I have yet to be contacted by Apple to make his tunes available in their new streaming service. If they had to make a deal with the big labels, are they making deals with all the thousands of indies? Or are they just getting screwed?

There are MANY questions here. Perhaps the independents will wind up banding together and suing Apple for their share of stream rights?

The more I think about it, the more interesting it gets.

There is a HUGE amount of independent music out there. Ever browse CD Baby? That's independent music, man.
 
It would be nice if it could happen but I very much doubt it.

That has been Apple's strategy for a while. They can actually put the whole of MobileMe for FREE without incurring much loss but GREAT sales which can easily contribute to such a thing.

But the thing that plays the important role is:

1. Maintenance
2. License costs, etc.

If it's not ad-supported which MobileMe and streaming service will always be, there has to be some kind of cost.
 
Amazon and Google win here

It looks like this service will not be free which means that the customer trades one time gain (quicker uploading of his music - not really that big a problem) for long term pain - he will have to pay for the service every time he uses it. No wonder music labels are so interested in this service to succeed.
 
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timinbovey said:
This is obviously going to be a service geared to the "music for the masses" crowd. Like my wife or my (adult) children. Not me. Probably not my son, either.

If it's limited to iTunes availability (which since we can't upload......) hundreds and thousands of independent artists will NOT be available. Further, artists who have opted to NOT be a part of the RIAA, or are NOT with a major label (one of the 4 big ones, basically -- three of which are located in countries other than the USA) would never receive a penny through the licensing deal anyway. (And yes, I know the RIAA is made up of hundreds, if not thousands of "labels" 98% of which are under the umbrella of one of the big 4)

I've been at this music collecting thing for 50 years. Know how much vinyl is in my house? Not to mention the shellac (78's). Tons of obscure bands -- many who only did one or two 45's, in small studios, with no more distribution than the band themselves? NONE of this music will survive through this system. Tons of this music is in my computer and my ipod.

My Son is a musician, blues at that, and most of his collection is tracks of vintage blues material, not connected to the big four. Bet that won't stream. Interesting -- he's released 4 CD's. All of which are available on iTunes. As are thousands of other independents. You wanna bet that when the bean counters tally up the tunes/tracks/streams all the independent tunes will just count as "another track" and big business will get the $$ due to the independent artists? Or will the indies not be available in the cloud? Since I own the label my Son recorded on, and he's published by my publishing company, I have yet to be contacted by Apple to make his tunes available in their new streaming service. If they had to make a deal with the big labels, are they making deals with all the thousands of indies? Or are they just getting screwed?

There are MANY questions here. Perhaps the independents will wind up banding together and suing Apple for their share of stream rights?

The more I think about it, the more interesting it gets.

There is a HUGE amount of independent music out there. Ever browse CD Baby? That's independent music, man.

I listen to, support and love indie bands-rarely buy big name artists music-but, you cannot expect any music service to negotiate with every single label or publisher in the world. I buy all my indie music from iTunes and will continue to support them any way u can. I believe apple will put into place a compensation system for those indie artists in the iTunes ecosystem, apple has supported theses artists in the past and will continue to do so in the future.
 
This indicates that it won't only be limited to music you've downloaded from iTunes:

"Apple will be able to scan customers' digital music libraries in iTunes and quickly mirror their collections on its own servers, say three people briefed on the talks. If the sound quality of a particular song on a user's hard drive isn't good enough, Apple will be able to replace it with a higher-quality version."

For one, Apple already has a record of what you've purchased on iTunes, so they don't need to scan your library on your computer for those tracks. For another, if it only works for music originally downloaded from iTunes then the only reason they'd need to replace a low quality track with a higher quality one is if you still have old tracks from before they switched them all to iTunes Plus. This isn't likely to be significant enough to call it out. It's most likely that this is a reference to tracks you've ripped yourself off of CDs at a low bit rate. It MAY be limited to tracks that at least have metadata indicating that they've been ripped by iTunes, so there's some belief that they've been legitimately ripped off of a customer's CD instead of downloaded. There's no doubt that there's plenty of music being shared that's been ripped by iTunes, but none of the most offensive "scene" releases of music are. (Of course someone's likely to create a tool that'll get around this by updating all your music's metadata, but distribution of that tool will still be small.)

Replacing low quality tracks in a user's library with higher quality ones from the iTunes Store is one reason why Apple would have made sure to make deals with the music labels. The labels would normally see this as a separate "sale" of each track. They simply don't recognize the idea that once you've bought music in one form that you have the right to use it in another form unless you pay for it again. This is why they fought so hard against allowing people to legally rip their own CDs. Fortunately the consumer won on that one, but that's a rare exception.

The labels have already been trying to either shut down or force licensing out of any service that allows you to upload your own music and stream it. Google and Amazon are so large they thought they might be able to get away with it, or at least that they could manage the court costs when they're sued and keep their services running for 3 to 5 years while the lawsuits are drawn out.

Striking a deal with Apple both gives the labels ammunition for licensing demands and/or lawsuits against Google and Amazon, and it gives them hope that a better service from Apple will curb adoption of the Google and Amazon services. With low(er) adoption, Google and Amazon are more likely to settle with the labels because the money they're making on their services will be greatly diminished.

A few final notes:

Obviously if you've got music on your hard drive that isn't available on the iTunes Store, if Apple allows you to use those at all those are going to have to be uploaded over your network connection. Even if someone else has uploaded a higher quality version Apple's rights to replace your files with higher quality ones are surely going to be limited to music they already have a licence to sell.

Next, thanks to the database files iTunes keeps on your hard drive the "scanning" process is actually only going to consist of a single upload of one of those files, rather than actually seeking all over your hard drive for files with the right file extensions. This'll make the initial sync even faster. It won't detect anything that isn't already in your iTunes library, of course. With Apple's flair for integration, though, any new tracks you add to iTunes will certainly be quickly updated in your cloud service. You may need to manually sync, or it might just do it automatically when you add the tracks in iTunes, as long as you have a network connection.

Interestingly, this could allow you to save space locally and still get higher quality music by intentionally ripping something onto your hard drive at a low quality and letting Apple "replace" it in your cloud service with a higher quality version from the iTunes Store. :)

Finally, as far as pricing I wouldn't be surprised if this is bundled into the price of whatever Apple chooses to call the replacement for MobileMe, e.g. "iCloud."
 
Surely there will be issues with tracks that are not named exactly the same as those on Apple's servers. To simplify sorting I always put the name of a guest artist in the song title in parenthesises eg. Another Way to Die (feat. Jack White) instead of the default way of naming both artists in the artist field. If Apple scans my library to mirror its contents on the cloud, then they might not include all such tracks because they would be unrecognisable.

In any case, I fail to see why a cloud service is needed in the first place. Capacities of iPods seem to double every generation and a half so in a few years we will be storing entire libraries in iPod Nano size devices. To an extent that is already possible if the option to mirror in 128 kbs option is used in iTunes.
 
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timinbovey said:
This is obviously going to be a service geared to the "music for the masses" crowd. Like my wife or my (adult) children. Not me. Probably not my son, either.

If it's limited to iTunes availability (which since we can't upload......) hundreds and thousands of independent artists will NOT be available. Further, artists who have opted to NOT be a part of the RIAA, or are NOT with a major label (one of the 4 big ones, basically -- three of which are located in countries other than the USA) would never receive a penny through the licensing deal anyway. (And yes, I know the RIAA is made up of hundreds, if not thousands of "labels" 98% of which are under the umbrella of one of the big 4)

I've been at this music collecting thing for 50 years. Know how much vinyl is in my house? Not to mention the shellac (78's). Tons of obscure bands -- many who only did one or two 45's, in small studios, with no more distribution than the band themselves? NONE of this music will survive through this system. Tons of this music is in my computer and my ipod.

My Son is a musician, blues at that, and most of his collection is tracks of vintage blues material, not connected to the big four. Bet that won't stream. Interesting -- he's released 4 CD's. All of which are available on iTunes. As are thousands of other independents. You wanna bet that when the bean counters tally up the tunes/tracks/streams all the independent tunes will just count as "another track" and big business will get the $$ due to the independent artists? Or will the indies not be available in the cloud? Since I own the label my Son recorded on, and he's published by my publishing company, I have yet to be contacted by Apple to make his tunes available in their new streaming service. If they had to make a deal with the big labels, are they making deals with all the thousands of indies? Or are they just getting screwed?

There are MANY questions here. Perhaps the independents will wind up banding together and suing Apple for their share of stream rights?

The more I think about it, the more interesting it gets.

There is a HUGE amount of independent music out there. Ever browse CD Baby? That's independent music, man.

I have 2 CDs on iTunes as well. I would expect to get compensated the same way others are. Unless you deal directly with Apple to get your music on iTunes, I don't know why you would expect them to contact you. They would deal with Tunecore or Cd Baby or whoever you work with and you'd get paid by them like you do for downloads

We also had our music on Lala before Apple acquired them and shut them down and we got paid $0.01 for every stream via Tunecore. Don't see why it would be different.
 
This could get interesting. Yes, there will certainly be some kind of costs associated with this service--the question is how will they be passed on to the consumer?

I think it's unlikely that there will by any kind of per song or per use charge. It's hard enough to get people to pay for music. Increasing the price would not help the situation. It could perhaps be included with a MobileMe subscription, but that doesn't jive with the talk of that becoming free (Google already offers similar services at no charge).

My guess is that this is seen as a major increase in convenience for users, which will lead to higher sales revenues. As a result, I wouldn't be shocked to see this offered as either an ad supported program or either free or very low cost. The idea being Apple makes more money in the long run by selling more songs, more mobile devices and more Macs.

I also won't be surprised to see the RIAA file huge lawsuits against the unlicensed competing services. It's really difficult and unpopular for them to go after individual users, but Google and Amazon are big targets. Lawsuits that they will likely win. There is no way to prove that the files they're storing aren't pirated, if they didn't agree to license the songs they sold for cloud streaming then they're most certainly violating their initial agreements with the record labels. Apple signing and paying for licensing creates a precedent that a license is appropriate as well.

This could at the very least kill off those competing cloud services. Amazon only has sales of digital music/video to attempt to recoup the costs with. Google only has Ads. Apple recoups through sales of high dollar merchandise, digital sales and potentially ad revenue. Even if Apple offers the service for free, with the likely reduction in competition they'll make out in the long run.
 
And what of all the tracks in one's collection that have been edited, by making compilations with fade-out/fade-in, or shortened/segued with only parts of tracks left, or with corrections like removal of digital clicks etc?
 
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Sir Cecil said:
And what of all the tracks in one's collection that have been edited, by making compilations with fade-out/fade-in, or shortened/segued with only parts of tracks left, or with corrections like removal of digital clicks etc?

I would imagine you could upload these tracks like any other track that is not found in the iTunes store.
 
This is obviously going to be a service geared to the "music for the masses" crowd. Like my wife or my (adult) children. Not me. Probably not my son, either.

If it's limited to iTunes availability (which since we can't upload......) hundreds and thousands of independent artists will NOT be available. Further, artists who have opted to NOT be a part of the RIAA, or are NOT with a major label (one of the 4 big ones, basically -- three of which are located in countries other than the USA) would never receive a penny through the licensing deal anyway. (And yes, I know the RIAA is made up of hundreds, if not thousands of "labels" 98% of which are under the umbrella of one of the big 4)

I've been at this music collecting thing for 50 years. Know how much vinyl is in my house? Not to mention the shellac (78's). Tons of obscure bands -- many who only did one or two 45's, in small studios, with no more distribution than the band themselves? NONE of this music will survive through this system. Tons of this music is in my computer and my ipod.

My Son is a musician, blues at that, and most of his collection is tracks of vintage blues material, not connected to the big four. Bet that won't stream. Interesting -- he's released 4 CD's. All of which are available on iTunes. As are thousands of other independents. You wanna bet that when the bean counters tally up the tunes/tracks/streams all the independent tunes will just count as "another track" and big business will get the $$ due to the independent artists? Or will the indies not be available in the cloud? Since I own the label my Son recorded on, and he's published by my publishing company, I have yet to be contacted by Apple to make his tunes available in their new streaming service. If they had to make a deal with the big labels, are they making deals with all the thousands of indies? Or are they just getting screwed?

There are MANY questions here. Perhaps the independents will wind up banding together and suing Apple for their share of stream rights?

The more I think about it, the more interesting it gets.

There is a HUGE amount of independent music out there. Ever browse CD Baby? That's independent music, man.

Apple doesn't deal with independent artists directly, nor do they deal with very small independent labels directly. All of these people go through third party companies to get their music sold on iTunes. I'm sure that any label entity that Apple deals with directly has been negotiated with and has signed off. If it's a small label, the negotiation probably went something like "Here's the deal--take it or leave". Most would take it unquestionably, iTunes is the biggest music store in the world, they don't want to not be there.

For the others who go through third parties, they've all signed (or clicked through T&C's) that give the third party company the right to negotiate for the artists and labels they work with. They will certainly be compensated in some way if there is compensation to be had--but according to the terms laid out with that company--not with Apple directly.

As for the publishers...that's an interesting story. They are most likely dealing with the various organizations that represent publishers. There are only three in the US. Most other countries only have one. Publishers and writers agree to allow those groups to negotiate for them in these situations as well.

As for the truly obscure music that many of us (including myself) love. That won't change. There is no way to digitally recreate the sound of vinyl, or the thrill we get when we hunt down those really hard to find records. I don't see how this service impacts that in any way. The digital revolution has happened in music, and there are still some that can appreciate the analog formats. While this service doesn't cater to us in particular, it won't hurt what we like.
 
Everybody waiting on Apple to see how it goes... So... What else is new? :rolleyes:

Same as it ever was...

Talking-Heads-Once-in-a-Lifetime.jpg
 
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