iPod Some iPods ship with a Windows virus

[BenRoethig]

Again, Apple is not required to do anything, or compensate its customers in any way, and most companies would do absolutely nothing.

And in return the customers are not required to buy Apple products. It's not like Apple is in a position to make too many mistakes.

 

[Eraserhead]

It is certainly shoddy of Apple to ship it with a virus, why the computers making the iPods are connected to the internet I don't know (as they shouldn't be so they are clean (even if they are Mac's)).

Also as many have said before Apple are awful for trying to blame windows for this issue that shouldn't be done

 

[gloss]

It is certainly shoddy of Apple to ship it with a virus, why the computers making the iPods are connected to the internet I don't know (as they shouldn't be so they are clean (even if they are Mac's)).

Also as many have said before Apple are awful for trying to blame windows for this issue that shouldn't be done

The impression I got is that a Windows machine somewhere on the assembly line in China infected said iPods, so in a way, it is indirectly the fault of Microsoft's crummy security.

However, it was unsportsmanlike of Apple to say so in an official release.

 

[barisax5of12]

iTunes major cause of virus infections?

At my company, the "Corporate Compliance Officer" made this statement,

"First and foremost, download sites such as iTunes are one of the major causes of virus infections."

This got me thinking: Is he right or is he just blowing smoke? Has anyone compiled a statistic on this? I would love to disprove this statement. Therefore, does anyone have any ammunition for me to use because iTunes URL is now being blocked due to this reasoning?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Snowy_River]

If you let your shopping cart bump into an old lady and she drops her groceries, you don't just start laughing at how clumsy she is and point to where her groceries went while she crawls along the floor trying picking them up. Even if it was pretty funny. Even if it was your mother-in-law.

Apple didn't get where it is today by being a dick. Microsoft did.

Now, this is a huge leap. If you want to use this analogy, the current situation would be more like bumping your mother-in-law on accident, causing her to drop her groceries. You immediately laugh, proclaiming that you're sorry, your fault, but maybe she needs to be a little more nimble on her feet, as you lean down and help her to pick up all of the spilled groceries. Most people observing the scene wouldn't consider your actions to be too insensitive.

Good grief.

 

[Catt]

True, but surely they'd still scan any device or disc that they were about to connect to the machine, especially if it was running important software? You can't assume thumb drives and CDs are safe.

(I agree that it's very shoddy of Apple to have done this, by the way, but I'm just surprised someone would connect anything to an important Windows machine without scanning it.)

Oh I agree that in the case of re-writable discs and so on, yes, you would scan them (although, some blank CDs etc. guarentee to be malware free)

But I think the point here is that most people would reasonably expect a *brand new* and *sealed* product to be free of malicious software, especially one made by a company such as Apple. Although tech savy people (who are most likely to run unconnected PCs anyway) would likely, as you say, scan the fact is they shouldn't have to.

Its certainly a slip up and luckily (both for end users and Apple) one which wasn't as bad as it could have been in terms of the viral/worm/trojan payload.

It was never going to look great for Apple, but its barbed comments about Windows were unecssary, only ever going to appeal to a subset of its already loyal userbase, and display Apple as being somewhat childish and infantile - especially after it was the one to make the mistake. Its just no very professional.

 

[vga4life]

The license agreement covers the iPod, thereby covering a problem with the iPod in its default state. The only way this software would not be covered by their indemnity clause would be if it shipped on a separate CD. Still, the real issue isn't contractual indemnity, but whether or not Apple was negligent.

There's nothing to suggest that there was a lax security policy or that willful negligence resulted in this error.

Um, what? How, exactly, did this occur without a lax security policy and lack of due care in oversight of the manufacturing process? Apple negligently produced and sold an actively malicious product. The fact that the defect was introduced in a subcontracted manufacturing step means that Apple gets to recover losses from the subcontractor, not that the purchaser of the malware has no recourse against Apple.

GOD DIDN'T PUT THE TROJAN ON THE DISK! Lax procedures allowed this to happen. At the very least, determining negligence here is a matter for the jury.

But beyond that, a negligence suit could not be brought against Apple, so long as their subcontractor is responsible for their own facility. Nothing Apple did encouraged or facilitated this error, unless the manufacturer has a history of security lapses.

Yeah, I'll take a lecture on privity from someone who keeps writing it as "privy."

 

[Snowy_River]

...As ... a recent divestor of Apple stock...

Boy, you must really be worried about how this is going to effect Apple. You divested yourself of Apple stock just because of this?

RANT ON
...
But these remarks about viruses and windows are kind of getting to me. It's not that OSX is so much safer than Windows.... It's not that OSX is any safer, its just that virus writers don't spend the time writing viruses for it because there are so fewer OSX boxes than Windows boxes.
...
RANT OFF

...Not to mention that Apple should be aware that hackers do buy Ipods and OSX is not immune to them. Don't be fooled, it is our low numbers that keep us safe, not Steve Jobs. I love my mac but Apple's arrogance and belittlement of others (even when it is their fault) is wearing thin.

Others have already commented on this, but I'd love to point out that this doesn't make sense, even from pure statistics. If Apple has about 5% of marketshare, then, statistically, 5% of all viruses should show up on Macs. So, let's see, is zero equal to 5% of 40,000? No, that would be 2,000. Before someone tries to say that there is a threshold and then the floodgates would open, I'd like to point to Mac OS 9 and before. Here, when the Mac had an even lower marketshare than it has now, in a world that had fewer viruses around, the Mac had a number of viruses kicking around. I was even infected by the QT AutoStart virus, at one point. So, why hasn't there been a single virus "in the wild" (i.e. not just a proof of concept) for the Mac since OS X came out?

Simple. It's really not as easy as it looks.

I look forward to your work. People need to lighten up. Apple took a shot, and I thought it was funny they did. Apple said they screwed up, and that's it. What are people asking for here? The problem is solved.

I agree completely.

 

[s10]

All it would take is for the digital copy protection that makes it into the Zune to be infectable somehow. It would surprise me in the least if it were possible to produce a "copy protected" song where as soon as you attempt to play the infected file in WMP, it will cause a buffer overrun, which will turn your computer into a Zombie. One that happens, exploiting a wifi hole would be simplicity itself...

Is it just songs that you can transfer or also images? I have no idea on how easy or difficult this would be, but it could be a potential virus entrance.

 

[rahrens]

????

Completely agree.

Apple needs to take full responsibility for their subcontractor's mistake (be it intentional or not). That is the action of a responsible company. Finger pointing is not.

Very disappointed in Apple in this particular case.

And just where do you get the idea that they are not? They have announced the issue, provided free advice on how to take care of it, and provided reassurances that it won't happen again. Just because they made a stupid remark about Windows, didn't you read the second half of that statement? You know, the part where they said that they were even MORE upset with themselves for missing it?

Damn them for making the mistake in the first place all you want - they deserve it, but don't excoriate them for not doing what they really did.

 

[mrsebastian]

get your booties and raincoats on kiddies, the ark will be shipping off in 20 minutes [so long suckers!] ... ooh, ooh i just figured it out! it's a conspiracy by apple to get more people to buy macs!

 

[whatever]

Seems like someone in apple has a sense of humour.

Stuff like this happens everyday.

Remember way back in the day (the 90's) when many CD-ROMS came with undocumented directories of porn.

Granted these days kids call these little surprises "Easter Eggs", but ....

I've heard of similar problems with SanDisk. And now that the little cheap USB thumbdrives are a popular "give away" at conferences I can only wonder get's installed on them.

This will not effect Apple's stock.

 

[Swytch]

...No you dont... if there was no iPod window$ compatibility, most likely, there would be no Macs today!

thats not true at all, the ipod is what originally started switching people to macs...

and if the ipod was never invented, there would still be macs today, the ipod does not have any bearing on whether or not macs are made

 

[Swytch]

MS does not ship those viruses to the user. It's not like the installation-CD's for Windows have those 40.000+ viruses on it from the start.



But this IS Apple's problem. The Joe Sixpack buying the iPod does not care that is the iPod made by Foxconn or some other far-eastern company. To them, it's an Apple-product. It has Apple-logo on it, the subcontractor is not mentioned at all. Or do you think that you MacBook is not an Apple-computer, but it's an Asus (or whoever it is that makes those machines)-computer instead?

The double-standards are very amusing (or sad, take your pick) really. In one thread we have people patting each other in the back because Apple-computers scored high on reliability-ratings. We have people saying things like "Whoa, go Apple!". And now that one of their product comes preloaded with a virus, we get a 180-degrees switch with people saying "But Apple didn't make the product, it was made by another company!". So when things go well, Apple deserves the credit, when things go bad, the blame lies at some third-party instead? No matter what happens, Apple is NEVER to be blamed for any mistakes that might happen, because they are caused by a "someone else". However, it things do go well, then they deserve all the credit.

Fanboys... gotta love 'em.

you missed my point entirely.... Yes apple is responsible, but they did more than they needed to to fix the problem, and asking for a full refund and getting to keep the ipod, just because "you dont expect an ipod to have a virus on it"... just plain greedy... and no reason to be pissed at apple, be pissed at the jerk offs who write viruses

 

[schatten]

Ummm... OK. If I bought one of these infected iPods and spyware got installed on my PC, I do believe that the folks at the Apple Store would be refunding me 100% of my purchase price while allowing me to keep the iPod... the alternative being that they could pay the bill for someone to clean up the damage to my PC.

Hopefully you were joking. You can't possibly be serious. Do you read your EULAs? You deserve nothing from Apple. The product was not defective, and if it was, it would be replaced or repaired. No freebies. I used to work retail and people like you really turned my stomach. Always angling for a handout. Really, take responsibilty for you own life, grow a sense of perspective and stop expecting the world to owe you something.

If you asked me for a full refund while expecting to keep the product, I'd have laughed you out of my store.

As for paying the bill for someone to clean up the damage to your PC? Well, why weren't you running up-to-date antivirus? Who pays the bill for your lack of foresight? Who's to say that you didn't contract that (or any) virus from another source?


If I were injured a car accident because I didn't wear my seatbelt, I wouldn't expect Honda to give me a free car.

 

[gloss]

If I were injured a car accident because I didn't wear my seatbelt, I wouldn't expect Honda to give me a free car.

And if the accident was caused by some hobo that Honda allowed to sleep in the backseat and who gnawed through the brake lines looking for a fix?

 

[Seasought]

This is unfortunate. Now everyone is going to think "Virus...Apple...Macs" regardless of the details.

I hope this blows over quickly given that it was a Windows virus and that similar things have happened to other mp3 players recently.

 

[Catt]

As for paying the bill for someone to clean up the damage to your PC? Well, why weren't you running up-to-date antivirus? Who pays the bill for your lack of foresight? Who's to say that you didn't contract that (or any) virus from another source?

I am not so sure about this, under UK law anyway.

If you wanted to use your arugment Apple would reasonably be expected to state that anti-virus software is necessary before installing this product because it cannot guarentee that the product is safe to use. Unless it clearly states this the expectations of the user is that anti-virus software is not needed. The fact that viruses exist independently of the iPod is irrelevant, we are not talking about them, we are talking about the malicious software introduced to a computer specifically by the iPod.

The question is not "Is it reasonable for PC users to have installed and up to date anti-virus software?". The answer is clearly "yes". The relevant question is "Is it reasonable for PC users to have to have anti-virus software to avoid infection from a consumer product". The answer here is (I would argue) "No".

I am not sure how watertight your arguement would be in court, at least a UK one anyway.

Although, I don't necessarily think Apple should be refunding iPods for these people. If the malware actually damaged the host PC or iPod then this would be a different matter all together. But as it stands I agree with you that claiming a replacement iPod would not stand up in court.

What we actually need to know is why this happened and whether Apple took reasonable steps to avoid it.

If I were injured a car accident because I didn't wear my seatbelt, I wouldn't expect Honda to give me a free car.

That's not even vaguely analgous. For a start a seatbelt is a piece of safety equipment installed in cars by the original manufacturer of said car by law. Anti-virus software is secondary to the iPod and the PC, not an integral part of either, and it is not a legal requirement to have anti-virus software installed on your PC.

 

[mozmac]

Anyone finds this ironic that this came out right after the story of Apple's increased reliability? I realize this isn't a problem with the hardware, but still.

Pretty funny.

 

[minnesotamacman]

Ummm... OK. If I bought one of these infected iPods and spyware got installed on my PC, I do believe that the folks at the Apple Store would be refunding me 100% of my purchase price while allowing me to keep the iPod... the alternative being that they could pay the bill for someone to clean up the damage to my PC.

Never would hurt to ask

 

[ATG]

As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.

Yeah apple, really professional language there

 

[Butler Trumpet]

Yeah, if you dont have spyware and antivirus protection and you are using a PC, you're an idiot anyway.

Personally I think its hilarious.

And really this is nothing new... apple was just about the only company that doesnt install a bunch of other crap on your pc when you get a new program or periphial. So PC users should be used to unexpected things happening anyway.

(sorry for the spelling errors, im sure there are some. my mac catches that for me, but im on a pc in the library... which is lame, and it doesnt have spell check)

 

[Snowy_River]

My goodness, people!

There have, reportedly, been less than 25 cases of this virus being found! LESS THAN 25!!

This is not a big deal!

And yet, everyone is going ballistic!

This is absurd!

And, yes, I'm using way too many exclamation points!

Life has flaws. Hard drives crash. I had the hard drive crash in one of my Macs once, and it cost me about a hundred billable hours (at that time that was $50 per hour) to reconstruct the data I lost. Did I have a leg to stand on to say that Apple owed me $5000? Not a chance. Life has risks. That's just a fact of life. Sometimes things happen. Viruses creep in.

Regarding the hospital analogy, if you caught the flu while visiting someone in the hospital, would you sue the hospital for negligence? No way!

Now, can we stop putting words in Apple's mouth? To assume that their response would be the same if they had a more serious outbreak (i.e. thousands of units) or an outbreak of a more dangerous virus is just plain stupid. Anyone who is doing that is looking for a reason to be mad at Apple, so they're just making one up.

Move along now, there's nothing to see here....

 

[Mulyahnto]

Apple is completely responsible, however, their explanation is not out of place. They can take responsibility for not catching the virus and bad QC but blame someone else for getting the virus in the first place. I don't think that's wrong to do.

 

[Mulyahnto]

That's not even vaguely analgous. For a start a seatbelt is a piece of safety equipment installed in cars by the original manufacturer of said car by law. Anti-virus software is secondary to the iPod and the PC, not an integral part of either, and it is not a legal requirement to have anti-virus software installed on your PC.

Anti-virus software in my opinion is very analogous to seat belts. Except in cars we're talking about human health in anti virus software we're talking about computer health. The impact is not the same, but their function, in my opinion is analogous. If you could die from a computer virus, belief me, the government would make antivirus a legal requirement just like seatbelts.