iPod Some iPods ship with a Windows virus

[EricNau]

Looks like Apple and McDonald's have different philosophies on how to handle problems.

McDonald's, who gave away FREE mp3 players, found that some of those mp3 players included a form of malware. In response, they established a 24 hour hotline to help those with infected mp3 players, and will replace any infected players at no cost.

Apple also distributed iPods containing malware, and SOLD them to customers for $250-$350, but handled the situation in a very different way. Apple placed the blame on Microsoft (which McDonald's could have done but didn't), and told the customer to fix it themselves, offering little to no help.

Which sounds like the nicer company?

 

[fyzle]

Title

Did anyone else read that as "Windows Vista on (a few) Video iPods" ?

 

[rtdunham]

... the customer would respond to Apple, being the privy link in the chain. But Apple simply has to issue a statement...They're not required to do anything else--they're not even required to apologize, really.

matticus, with all due respect, privy shmivy. the issue's not law; it's public perception. The company's snotty statement after an easily forgiven slipup makes it easy to imagine a SatNiteLive skit with pimply, baggy-pantsed kids cast as apple executives, making corporate decisions during breaks from making prank calls to bill gates. I know you were goaded into your response by a few class-action-manic posts. But don't (cliche warning ) overlook the forest for the trees. That sort of satire can do a lot of harm to apple's carefully cultivated (and deserved) image as one of the most innovative, creative companies around. imho.

 

[stephenli]

what a pity
those using boot-camp are innocent
coz they still are mac users

apple at least announce the serial number of iPods that may be affected and offer support on it

 

[Aperture]

Thats kind of funny. I wonder how they got on the iPods to begin with?

 

[SMM]

Looks like Apple and McDonald's have different philosophies on how to handle problems.

McDonald's, who gave away FREE mp3 players, found that some of those mp3 players included a form of malware. In response, they established a 24 hour hotline to help those with infected mp3 players, and will replace any infected players at no cost.

Apple also distributed iPods containing malware, and SOLD them to customers for $250-$350, but handled the situation in a very different way. Apple placed the blame on Microsoft (which McDonald's could have done but didn't), and told the customer to fix it themselves, offering little to no help.

Which sounds like the nicer company?

I hope no one pays you for logical thinking, or being able to read and discern that which is written. I expected the Redmond crowd to chime in. So, you have lived up to all of my expectations.

 

[evilbert420]

I think I'm going to scream. Microsoft deserves every negitive jab, ridicule, flaming, and more for selling defective and dangerous software and refusing to fix it. Their arrogance pisses me off. There is no company in the history of this country that deserves to go down in flames than Microsoft. They're worse than Enron. They have cost this country more money, people's sanity, jobs, personal privacy, that's it is ubelivable they still exist.

The fact that after six years OS X still doesn't have one virus proves it can be done! Not one people! How many years will it take until you all start to understand that Windows is a horribly written piece of ...?

Wow, you're definitely not a zealot! Your arrogance is exactly what makes people think the Cult of Apple are a bunch of extremist freaks. Saying that MS is an evil company that deserves to go "down in flames" and that they're somehow "worse than Enron" paints you as someone who can't separate reality from fantasy. There were a few individuals that screwed Enron employees and stockholders, not the whole company. Same thing goes for Microsoft, most of the people that work there are good people trying to honestly do things to improve life for people, just like Apple employees or most employees of ANY company.

Contrary to what you may believe, there have been OS X virii, such as OSX/Leap-A. A simple Google search will provide you the info you need. Fortunately, Apple fixes their software just like MS does. The half-dozen monthly patches for both platforms are proof of that.

 

[SMM]

Wow, you're definitely not a zealot! Your arrogance is exactly what makes people think the Cult of Apple are a bunch of extremist freaks. Saying that MS is an evil company that deserves to go "down in flames" and that they're somehow "worse than Enron" paints you as someone who can't separate reality from fantasy. There were a few individuals that screwed Enron employees and stockholders, not the whole company. Same thing goes for Microsoft, most of the people that work there are good people trying to honestly do things to improve life for people, just like Apple employees or most employees of ANY company.

Contrary to what you may believe, there have been OS X virii, such as OSX/Leap-A. A simple Google search will provide you the info you need. Fortunately, Apple fixes their software just like MS does. The half-dozen monthly patches for both platforms are proof of that.

There are extremists on both sides of the isle. MS has been found guilty of many shady business practices. Some were/are illegal. They continue to practice 'predatory pricing'. They need to clean up their act, or they WILL go down in flames.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

umm. Apple ought to have better quality control procedures at it's Chinese manufacturing plants. This is a bad mark.

but limited in scope. hope they rectify it ASAP. maybe give those people effected free itunes money.

 

[Snowy_River]

...The smart thing for Apple to do would have been to say "mea culpa, mea maxima culpa", recall the affected iPods, compensate the affected customers, and promise it will never happen again... and no bringing up Microsoft or any Chinese subcontractor.

...And 1% may seem like a small number, but that represents THOUSANDS of customers. Certainly enough to qualify for a class action suit should they all get together and decide to file one...

Okay. There are two different issues here. First, what Apple has to do, and second, what Apple ought to do. Recall the effected iPods? When there have been fewer than 25 reported? That makes no sense whatsoever. And, incidentally, that's nowhere near "thousands".

No. On the one hand, Apple doesn't have to do much of anything. On the other hand, they are owning that they made a mistake, and they are offering some level of support to effected customers. So, as I see it, they are doing the right thing.

What level of support and / or compensation are they offering? Well, let's wait until we hear from someone who was told to go fly a kite by Apple before we leap to the conclusion that Apple is the root of all evil. I rather suspect that Apple's response would be much more favorable than that, based on my various dealings with their service department.

Of course, that brings us to the question of the comment about Windows...

... Finger pointing is not.

Very disappointed in Apple in this particular case.

Well, you can be disappointed. If you actually pay attention to what Apple said, they indicate, essentially, that while dealing with Windows is frustrating due to its soft security issues, they are very upset with themselves for not catching this mistake. Now, the way that they chose to word it, to me, comes across a little tongue-in-cheek. To me it seems like they're really just down playing the seriousness of the whole issue.

I personally find it quite funny.

Everyone needs to lighten up.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Snowy_River]

umm. Apple ought to have better quality control procedures at it's Chinese manufacturing plants. This is a bad mark.

but limited in scope. hope they rectify it ASAP. maybe give those people effected free itunes money.

In point of fact, it already has been rectified. The idea about the iTS money is a nice one, though...

 

[XP3]

Nice Admission by Apple

When I'm working, I use a PC also.

 

[matticus008]

matticus, with all due respect, privy shmivy. the issue's not law; it's public perception.

Oh, I agree that the remark was a cheap shot--but I'm saying that the sentiment expressed is valid and Microsoft is complicit in its continued sale of woefully un-secured software. I think Apple could have expressed the same point more gracefully in this issue--a separate statement, or framing it as an example of how even responsible, knowledgeable companies can't guarantee security with Windows involved.

I'm disappointed that more companies don't call Microsoft out. Make no mistake, I believe companies should take responsibility for the mistakes that affect their products, but they should also be able to identify the cause of the problem and rectify it. Here, it might not be lax security or negligence, but just the simple reality that stopping propagation across Windows networks is much harder than it should be (and not for lack of an available solution).

This has happened at other companies, and it will happen at other companies in the future, and the common denominator is Windows. I'm not Windows bashing, because it's a decent product, but Microsoft has to do better with security.

 

[gsnixon]

If you let your shopping cart bump into an old lady and she drops her groceries, you don't just start laughing at how clumsy she is and point to where her groceries went while she crawls along the floor trying picking them up. Even if it was pretty funny. Even if it was your mother-in-law.

Apple didn't get where it is today by being a dick. Microsoft did.

 

[swingerofbirch]

I would be lying if I didn't say that Appe's attitude and the number of Apple apologists on this board frightens me to the core.

If we want Apple to win, if we want to support Apple, we have to hold Apple's feet to the fire. As an Apple enthusiast and a recent divestor of Apple stock, I want Apple to do well.

Apple started to do well again when Steve Jobs returned to Apple and proclaimed that for Apple to win Microsoft doesn't have to lose.

It's enough for us to do good work, show off the good work. We don't have to tear down others to rise.

 

[jkelling]

If you have a PC and dont have proper virus protection and spyware protection, your an idiot and are gonna get a virus and tons of spyware anyways... this would just be a wake up call to those people...

and no, Apple would not be repsonsible for anything other than removing the virus and maybe replacing your ipod, just as with any other factory defect.

In fact, from the iPod Software License Agreement:



they are not responsible...

dont like it, buy a mac or stick with your crappy pc and get viruses and dont buy an ipod

personally i kinda hope this means apple will drop ipod windows support completely, PC users can use their crappy microsoft Zune players

You must be one of those morons that think apple can do no wrong. If you ask me, they can't do anything right lately. Ipods with viruses, macbooks that overheat and have defective batteries, and more. You name it. Apple quality, design, and QC have gone out the window lately.

And in this story, they have the gall to blame windows. This is pure bs.

 

[jkelling]

Oh, I agree that the remark was a cheap shot--but I'm saying that the sentiment expressed is valid and Microsoft is complicit in its continued sale of woefully un-secured software. I think Apple could have expressed the same point more gracefully in this issue--a separate statement, or framing it as an example of how even responsible, knowledgeable companies can't guarantee security with Windows involved.

I'm disappointed that more companies don't call Microsoft out. Make no mistake, I believe companies should take responsibility for the mistakes that affect their products, but they should also be able to identify the cause of the problem and rectify it. Here, it might not be lax security or negligence, but just the simple reality that stopping propagation across Windows networks is much harder than it should be (and not for lack of an available solution).

This has happened at other companies, and it will happen at other companies in the future, and the common denominator is Windows. I'm not Windows bashing, because it's a decent product, but Microsoft has to do better with security.

RANT ON

Look guys. This remark is coming from a person that owns both PCs and Macs. I have 4 Macs and 2 PC, so you can see that I really don't tilt either direction much in my patronage.

But these remarks about viruses and windows are kind of getting to me. It's not that OSX is so much safer than Windows. As a software developer (not a virus developer), I could probably write a virus just as easily for OSX as for windows. It's not that OSX is any safer, its just that virus writers don't spend the time writing viruses for it because there are so fewer OSX boxes than Windows boxes.

I guess my point is that Microsoft has actually done MORE to prevent viruses than Apple, as they work with separate vendors, and have their own anti-virus products. Apple on the other hand doesn't even have or sell anti-virus software for OSX. Let OSX get popular, then you will see the same type of attacks on it as you see on windows.

RANT OFF

 

[matticus008]

But these remarks about viruses and windows are kind of getting to me. It's not that OSX is so much safer than Windows. As a software developer (not a virus developer), I could probably write a virus just as easily for OSX as for windows. It's not that OSX is any safer, its just that virus writers don't spend the time writing viruses for it because there are so fewer OSX boxes than Windows boxes.

As it turns out, I also have a number of PCs and a wide experience with OSes dating back many years. Windows simply doesn't have the same kind of security model employed by *nix OSes--the permissions model is all wonky, and access to the system isn't abstracted nearly enough. OS X, Linux, Solaris, and BSD are *all* inherently safer than Windows with regard to malware in general (including but not limited to viruses).

Case in point: viruses exist in the wild for PalmOS--a much less "juicy" target than OS X. For four years I've watched the Mac virus argument go back and forth with the claims that "OS X just isn't as popular" all the while even less popular platforms suffer from compromising software, and each time Mac market share increases, the "threshold of vulnerability" gets pushed into higher and higher digits. There are tens of millions of Macs running OS X and five years of solid history behind it. There are also tens of millions of Linux and BSD machines, many of which have no antivirus software installed, and none live in daily fear of compromise because getting files to transfer to your computer and execute on their own without being noticed is substantially more difficult than in any shipping version of Windows.

I give credit where credit is due and I don't have an anti-Windows bias, but it is sorely deficient in its entire security philosophy.

I guess my point is that Microsoft has actually done MORE to prevent viruses than Apple, as they work with separate vendors, and have their own anti-virus products. Apple on the other hand doesn't even have or sell anti-virus software for OSX.

A complete non sequitur. Since antivirus products work on the principle of heuristic matches, you can't have antivirus software until you have viruses. Apple therefore does not need to and cannot develop an AV platform.

 

[Phil A.]

It's not good publicity for Apple, but neither is it the end of the world - Microsoft have committed this faux pas on more than one occasion (here and here for examples) as have many other companies.

 

[Superdrive]

(snip) I could probably write a virus just as easily for OSX as for windows. (snip)Let OSX get popular, then you will see the same type of attacks on it as you see on windows.(snip)

I look forward to your work. People need to lighten up. Apple took a shot, and I thought it was funny they did. Apple said they screwed up, and that's it. What are people asking for here? The problem is solved.

 

[jkelling]

As it turns out, I also have a number of PCs and a wide experience with OSes dating back many years. Windows simply doesn't have the same kind of security model employed by *nix OSes--the permissions model is all wonky, and access to the system isn't abstracted nearly enough. OS X, Linux, Solaris, and BSD are *all* inherently safer than Windows with regard to malware in general (including but not limited to viruses).

You are correct in that *nix OSes have a better security model. But consider this - how many times have you ran or installed an OSX application and it asks for your password. Just like this smc fan control program which asks for your password. As soon as you enter that, boom, you have given the software permission to do almost anyting it wants. Any application we have installed on OSX and given extra permissions to, now has the same level of insecurity as any windows based application. It can do whatever it wants.

 

[Object-X]

Three things

Wow, you're definitely not a zealot! Your arrogance is exactly what makes people think the Cult of Apple are a bunch of extremist freaks. Saying that MS is an evil company that deserves to go "down in flames" and that they're somehow "worse than Enron" paints you as someone who can't separate reality from fantasy. There were a few individuals that screwed Enron employees and stockholders, not the whole company. Same thing goes for Microsoft, most of the people that work there are good people trying to honestly do things to improve life for people, just like Apple employees or most employees of ANY company.

Contrary to what you may believe, there have been OS X virii, such as OSX/Leap-A. A simple Google search will provide you the info you need. Fortunately, Apple fixes their software just like MS does. The half-dozen monthly patches for both platforms are proof of that.

First, I'm not arrogant because I'm angry at Microsoft and people who defend a company deserving of criticism. I would call defending Microsoft not seperating reality from fiction. The reality is Microsoft sold you and millions of others a defective product, and the fiction is that this is an acceptable business practice, the result of which we should all just live with. I support Microsoft products for a living and I have reasons to not like this company and it's practices; but because I "choose" to use OS X, and I'm critical in a passonate way, I'm a fanatic/zealot. Label me as you will. It's my opinion, this is a forum where people express their opinions, and I expressed it; and it felt good too.

Secondly, Microsoft was a hair away from being broken up by the government. A travesty of justice, politics, and big business that it didn't happen. It was a huge mistake. The computer industry would be better off if Microsoft was not in the position they are in now. They might actually have to compete. Microsoft has a monopoly and they have leveraged that power to destroy companies, stifle innovation, rip off the consumer, and become ridiculously wealthy. They deserve to broken up and the government should have done their job! But that's politics.

Finally, OSX/Leap-A is not a virus. SophosLabs labels it one, but they sell, you guessed it, antivirus software; so it's in their biased interest to find a virus they can stop. It might be more appropiately labeled a worm or trojan horse; but rather than get side tracked arguing semantics, OSX/Leap-A doesn't even work!!!! So how can it be called anything? If it's a virus, it's a virus that doesn't do what it's supposed to do. So, is it really a virus? Someone attemtpted to write a virus/worm/trojan, but coudn't make it work! So, what is it really? Nothing. Now, compare that to the thousands of known, and working, and destructive viruses aflicting Windows. Speaks for itself.

Why aren't Windows users mad about this? Outraged? Defecting? I was. I did. I thought I was totally getting ripped off. So, I bought a Mac. And I love it. Love it. I love my computer. It's wonderful. It's beautiful. I feel like jumping up and down on Oprah's couch and telling the world how I feel.

 

[gauchogolfer]

You are correct in that *nix OSes have a better security model. But consider this - how many times have you ran or installed an OSX application and it asks for your password. Just like this smc fan control program which asks for your password. As soon as you enter that, boom, you have given the software permission to do almost anyting it wants. Any application we have installed on OSX and given extra permissions to, now has the same level of insecurity as any windows based application. It can do whatever it wants.

OK, but this isn't a virus. This is a program that one chooses to install, that then does something different than advertised. If I 'choose' to *rm -r* my disk, that's my fault too. It all comes down to not intentionally downloading, installing, and authorizing (note it takes all three steps) programs from an untrustworthy source. This is just common sense.

 

[FaLLen]

i have 2 questions about this issue

1/ How does a windows virus get on an apple product ?

2/ How can anybody be as stupid and run a windows pc with no AV today ? Its like suicide

I wouldnt cry conspiracy but i still think that its not really a problem for users or resellers , at least reasonable ones wouldnt see it as a problem .

Otherwise i think that "less than 1%" is "neglectable quantity" for apple so they dont make the same support than mac donalds did .

BTW MAcDonalds , why did you think they got those mp3 players so cheap that they could give em away for FREE ? Anbody tought of that ?

 

[Evangelion]

By your logic, I could go after Microsoft for selling me a product that is prone to getting viruses simply because i didnt "expect" that any OS i buy would be susceptable to 40000+ viruses out of the box.

MS does not ship those viruses to the user. It's not like the installation-CD's for Windows have those 40.000+ viruses on it from the start.

My point is simply this: If you own a PC, be prepared to deal with Viruses, and dont try to blaim apple for accidentally shipping ipods with a virus they didnt create.

But this IS Apple's problem. The Joe Sixpack buying the iPod does not care that is the iPod made by Foxconn or some other far-eastern company. To them, it's an Apple-product. It has Apple-logo on it, the subcontractor is not mentioned at all. Or do you think that you MacBook is not an Apple-computer, but it's an Asus (or whoever it is that makes those machines)-computer instead?

The double-standards are very amusing (or sad, take your pick) really. In one thread we have people patting each other in the back because Apple-computers scored high on reliability-ratings. We have people saying things like "Whoa, go Apple!". And now that one of their product comes preloaded with a virus, we get a 180-degrees switch with people saying "But Apple didn't make the product, it was made by another company!". So when things go well, Apple deserves the credit, when things go bad, the blame lies at some third-party instead? No matter what happens, Apple is NEVER to be blamed for any mistakes that might happen, because they are caused by a "someone else". However, it things do go well, then they deserve all the credit.

Fanboys... gotta love 'em.