Some Supporters of Apple's Irish Data Center Have 'Totally Lost Hope' as Final Verdict Again Delayed

Discussion in 'iOS Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    One year ago, Apple began a staunch defense of its proposed data center in Galway County, Ireland, as a group of locals attempted to derail construction by reciting various environmental concerns for the area if Apple successfully built the facility.

    The delayed data center was supposed to be met with a decision this week, but now The Irish Times is reporting that a final verdict has been delayed yet again, with the Court Services confirming this week that the case will not be heard until October 12. While there are some residents opposing the data center, there remains a large group fighting with Apple to help bring jobs to the area.

    Apple supporters marching last November, via Athenry For Apple Facebook page

    According to local resident Paul Keane, who spoke with Business Insider, some of those on Apple's side have "totally lost hope."
    The residents against Apple attempted to halt construction last November by claiming that the permission it was granted by independent planning body An Bord Pleanála was invalid. They alleged that An Bord Pleanála didn't perform a proper environmental impact assessment of the proposed data center at Derrydonnell, located on the outskirts of Athenry, where the residents live. Apple successfully asked the High Court to fast-track the case, but a final decision was still set for months later, and now it has been pushed back even further.

    When Apple announced the Irish data center in February 2015, it also announced one for Denmark. Construction for that site has completed, and now the center is ready to go live sometime later this year. Around 300 jobs would be created over "multiple phases of construction" at the Irish data center, which would help power Apple's online services across Europe, including iTunes, the App Store, iMessage, Maps, and Siri.

    Article Link: Some Supporters of Apple's Irish Data Center Have 'Totally Lost Hope' as Final Verdict Again Delayed
  2. cloudness macrumors member

    Feb 10, 2008
    Let free market decide who gets the data center and the valuable tech jobs.
  3. Zirel, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

    Zirel Suspended


    Jul 24, 2015
    Uh? No? In this case, it is “let the politicians”...

    Those people there protesting (and many not protesting, but those who have skills in data-centers or even unrelated jobs that would have worked there or would be someway connected to that farm, and are now unemployed or making less than what they deserve), should go home and reflect what voting in environmentalists causes, and what does really mean.

    Everywhere in Europe, you see outdoors for these parties with emotive messages with doggies and kitties, but what they REALLY want is not the good of dogs and cats, it’s to impede progress and make us all grow and eat grass if possible (but only those straws rejected by the rabbits, because...)

    Is this really necessary to have clean water, clean air and clean soil, and keep the fauna and flora working well?

    I can’t see how a data center (solar powered, of course) could be so bad in such a lush environment like Ireland.
  4. Michaelgtrusa macrumors 604

    Oct 13, 2008
  5. macfacts macrumors 68030


    Oct 7, 2012
    What tech jobs? I hope you know the tech jobs will be done remotely. The MacRumors summary says there would be 300 temporary construction jobs.
  6. barkomatic macrumors 68040

    Aug 8, 2008
    So, the West clamors for good jobs to move back from China but when the attempt is made the company is met with all kinds of local opposition. I certainly would question how a company handles toxic materials and disposes of waste, and perhaps we wouldn't want something built atop a colony of endangered lichen, but I would think those concerns could be addressed quickly. Why the delay? Did some politician not get paid off?
  7. jonnysods macrumors 603


    Sep 20, 2006
    There & Back Again
    Wouldn't apple take care to minimize where they put this building?

    It's not like they are making the foundation out of kittens and dropping it on top of a stream
  8. IGI2 macrumors 6502


    May 6, 2015
    You know that not everything can be done remotely?

    Sure, many things is possible, but sometimes troubleshooting requires you to be there in person, or have some guy replace something. And it can't be a simple janitor.
  9. springsup macrumors 65816


    Feb 14, 2013
    Yes, it is really necessary to have clean water, air and soil. All the money in the world means jack **** if you're drinking polluted water and breathing polluted air, or if cities are getting destroyed by rising sea levels left and right. Not only that, but natural products like food, wind and natural fibres have enormous economic significance. There's also the humanitarian side of the question.

    Not only that, but beauty itself is worth something. Nowhere will stay "lush" if you keep replacing nature with metal and concrete boxes. Yeah, and I'd gladly tell that to anybody struggling for a job. Beauty is not reserved for the rich; if we get time, we all enjoy being outside in nature. The idea that everybody except the rich should only concern themselves with work - with no patience for nature, art, music, etc - is exactly the kind of mental prison we need to break.

    There are more important things in life than just money.
  10. Kabeyun macrumors 68000


    Mar 27, 2004
    Eastern USA
    All that's true. But then humans have the onus to do a couple of things.

    First, we have to stop demanding more and more from the companies that build facilities to provide it. (N.B. I don't see this happening.) It's laughably hypocritical to say "gimme, gimme, gimme" and then when they want to build for it, say "yucky, yucky,yucky!"

    Second, we need to stop reproducing so much. Almost every pressing problem in the world is caused by there being too many of us. (N.B. I don't see this happening either.) Yesterday I met a woman who had five children, five, and I thought immediately that it's the most selfish thing I could imagine. What itch is she scratching anyway? (And, by the way, she's on public assistance to help pay for raising them.) How many more billions of human organisms should we expect this planet to support and still have our unspoiled lushness all around us? There's currently a bill moving through congress to prohibit offshore wind farms that are close enough to see. We're a joke.

    I love and am awed by nature's majesty. But until we own our footprint on the planet, all this complaining about data centers (and directed towards one of the greenest major tech companies there's is, no less) rings pretty hypocritical on the large scale.
  11. Plutonius macrumors 604


    Feb 22, 2003
    New Hampshire, USA
    Call me cynical but I think it's probably kickbacks to the wrong people.
  12. modemthug macrumors regular

    Apr 20, 2010
    But how funny would it be if they did?
  13. Macaholic868 macrumors 6502


    Feb 2, 2017
    I love it when companies announce the number of construction “jobs” a project will “create”. It’s creates no jobs or temporary jobs at best. They hire a General Contracter whose employees are already employed and that GC hires subcontractors whose employees are already employed.

    Perhaps some sub’s will hire temporary employees if they can’t handle the work but for the most parts these “jobs” already exist. So stop it already. The only meaningful jobs that will be created are those of the employees or subcontractors who work there after it’s built.
  14. jonblatho macrumors 6502a


    Jan 20, 2014
    This is relevant to a data center…how?
  15. whooleytoo macrumors 604


    Aug 2, 2002
    Cork, Ireland.
    I don't think this really has anything to do with politicians; rather that the public tend to be very engaged with the approval process. It's rare to see any proposal of any kind put forward without a smattering of comments/objections. And, generally, these are listened to (which might be the 'only in Ireland' bit!). Gareth Brooks sold out 400,000 tickets for gigs in Dublin in 2015, but locals near the stadium objected and some were cancelled, leading to him pulling the plug entirely.

    Whether all this is a wonderful thing or a terrible thing depends on your point of view. I really wish the process could be speeded up dramatically though. There seems to be the perception that taking things slowly means doing things right. Sometimes, taking things slowly just means doing things slowly. The proposers lose interest and move on..
  16. justperry, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

    justperry macrumors G3


    Aug 10, 2007
    In the core of a black hole.
    Some of you might not know this, the reason why environmentalist are against this and rightfully so is that it's built in a forest while they could easily move 500 meters without cutting trees, I read somewhere there are animals living which are quite special.

    Picture below.

  17. Kabeyun, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017

    Kabeyun macrumors 68000


    Mar 27, 2004
    Eastern USA
    It isn't. Parenthetical remark. Well done. Bet you're good at playing Where's Waldo, too.
  18. nebo1ss macrumors 68030

    Jun 2, 2010
    You can also bet that those temporary construction jobs will not be irish workers either but more likely East European. Just visit any big construction site and check out the languages spoken.
  19. york2600 macrumors regular


    Jul 24, 2002
    Portland, OR
    I live on Oregon where Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple all have datacenters. These things don't employ many people. They're giant warehouses full of servers and that's it. There's some facilities people keeping the power/AC rolling and techs doing minor repairs. Racks come fully populated by truck and they just get rolled right in. All administration happens remotely. I'm not saying we don't appreciate a few dozen jobs at a datacenter, but don't pretend they really have an impact on the local economy since they're generally paying a big fat $0 property tax bill.
  20. Pbrutto macrumors 6502a


    Apr 21, 2015
    Eastern PA
    I’m studying networking and I was thinking the same thing, a few techs here and there and honestly they are probably 24/7 on call jobs anyway.
  21. DeepIn2U macrumors 603


    May 30, 2002
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Wrong ... the sentence said:
    Said nothing about 'temporary jobs" for I.T.

    Servers can be managed remotely,
    however failed drives, SSDs, power supplies, etc ALL need to be physically replaced. Cooling goes down you better believe Apple would want a team on standby even via a contractual company to be ready at the earliest response to resolve such issues.
  22. jonnysods macrumors 603


    Sep 20, 2006
    There & Back Again
    I'd just punch in to work at the data centre and lay on the ground and cuddle kittens then wash up in the steam before I head home for the day
  23. kdarling macrumors P6


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    He said temprorary construction jobs, which is what multiple phases of construction indicates.

    Apple is infamous for coming up with clever numbers like that. Remember their claims of creating a million jobs, except that included every registered app developer (few of which make a living wage), plus every delivery driver, truck and cargo aircraft factory worker, and all the townspeople supporting them. Ridiculous.

    A major business magazine then did a study and found that Apple destroyed almost as many jobs as they claimed to have created. The net result was only a slight increase instead.
  24. Sill, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    Sill macrumors 6502a

    Nov 14, 2014

    To be perfectly fair, the entire computing industry is like that.

    Apple commissioned a study in the late 1980s/early 90s that was intended to demonstrate how much more productive society was with the addition of computers. They obviously intended to use that study to push wider sales past the business and enthusiast markets, but it ended up getting buried. The study revealed that we were no more productive with computers than we were without them. For every extra thing we could get done, quicker, in the day, we were wasting the extra time this provided us or spending it on supporting our little electronic servants. For every job that prospered under the rapid intake and dissemination of information, we needed to waste human time designing, manufacturing, packaging, transporting, selling, servicing these things.

    Sure, that creates jobs, but distilled to its elements its also akin to the Broken Window Fallacy. When jobs are down, hire teams of people to damage things to create a demand for replacement things.

    On one hand, computers are incredibly useful, fun things, that enable us to connect and learn and produce like never before. On the other hand, they waste time, resources, and energy. They're also not very good for the environment, despite our very best efforts - and Apple is at the absolute top of the major CE manufacturers in this respect.
  25. kdarling macrumors P6


    Jun 9, 2007
    First university coding class = 47 years ago
    Great post.

    Yeah, it's like the idea that computers would lead to the paperless office, when instead we generate more paperwork now because it's easier to do, than back when everything had to be individually typed by hand.

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