Some Supporters of Apple's Irish Data Center Have 'Totally Lost Hope' as Final Verdict Again Delayed

[Sill]

Second, we need to stop reproducing so much. Almost every pressing problem in the world is caused by there being too many of us. (N.B. I don't see this happening either.) Yesterday I met a woman who had five children, five, and I thought immediately that it's the most selfish thing I could imagine. What itch is she scratching anyway? (And, by the way, she's on public assistance to help pay for raising them.) How many more billions of human organisms should we expect this planet to support and still have our unspoiled lushness all around us? There's currently a bill moving through congress to prohibit offshore wind farms that are close enough to see. We're a joke..

Careful... you might get labeled racist for making such a statement. Western white birth rates are the lowest on the planet by the recent studies I've read. Middle east and sub-saharan Africa have far higher birth numbers and are guaranteed to be the source of population pressure on resources over the next 100 years. Next highest is Central America. Therefore those birth rates would have to be addressed to achieve any meaningful reduction in population.

Also, you made a very good point, regarding the public assistance for the brood of five and their mother. It would do much for our society in that respect if such welfare were eliminated. The number one thing to do to accomplish your desired reduct in population would be to quit subsidizing birth. I'm all for it because that money is taken from productive people who would rather spend it on themselves or save it, thereby providing proper market signals.
Once again, government is the problem.
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Great post.

Yeah, it's like the idea that computers would lead to the paperless office, when instead we generate more paperwork now because it's easier to do, than back when everything had to be individually typed by hand.

In my company we had an entire room for files, and we had to keep everything for a 9 month minimum. After computers came along, all that went away. Now all of our daily work gets stored on computer, which is a huge benefit, but everything else gets printed out. Emails, customer communications, prework meetings, even texts to our field people so they can be reviewed with the workers later. And then it gets pitched. We have a recycling program for aluminum cans, but not for any of the paper waste. Some of the supervisors flip over the once-used paper, cut it into 3x5s or quarter sheets or whatever so it can be used for scratch paper, but thats the extent of it.

As I saw in Dilbert once, "Goodbye, paperless office - hello, clueless office".

 

[gnasher729]

You can also bet that those temporary construction jobs will not be irish workers either but more likely East European. Just visit any big construction site and check out the languages spoken.

In other words, EU citizens who have every right to live and work anywhere in the EU.

 

[Kabeyun]

Careful... you might get labeled racist for making such a statement. Western white birth rates are the lowest on the planet by the recent studies I've read. Middle east and sub-saharan Africa have far higher birth numbers and are guaranteed to be the source of population pressure on resources over the next 100 years. Next highest is Central America. Therefore those birth rates would have to be addressed to achieve any meaningful reduction in population.

Probably, but you also can't look at birth rates without looking at death rates. Many of the countries with the world's highest birth rates also have the highest death rates (source: CIA) although admittedly the former is higher than the latter. In the United States the birth rate is still 50% higher than the death rate, so we can still do our part. And with something like environmental stewardship, we suck disproportionately per capita. So I'm an equal opportunity anti-human.

Also, you made a very good point, regarding the public assistance for the brood of five and their mother. It would do much for our society in that respect if such welfare were eliminated. The number one thing to do to accomplish your desired reduct in population would be to quit subsidizing birth. I'm all for it because that money is taken from productive people who would rather spend it on themselves or save it, thereby providing proper market signals.
Once again, government is the problem.

Thanks. And I was with you until that last bit. I'm not a liberal but I'm no libertarian anarcho-capitalist either. Can't point to something the government isn't doing well to prove that government itself is inherently the problem. I'm a logician and that argument doesn't follow. Libertarians throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[TallManNY]

As someone who builds solar projects, I can appreciate what Apple is going through. Even when you build a solar farm, which will clearly help the environment in the long run, the locals complain about trees that get taken down. There are always people who live in rural areas who don't want to see any development locally. Somehow they expect to live with all the modern devices at their disposal, but they don't want anything made near them except for some farming.

A data center that will likely significantly support all of Ireland and England and maybe even good chunks of Europe seems like a good use of a few acres of land. But someone will always want those acres to be used somewhere else.

As for construction jobs, yes, they are temporary. But they are created. In the long run the data center will probably support a bunch of high paying local jobs, but maybe only a dozen or so. I don't know.

 

[DeepIn2U]

He said temprorary construction jobs, which is what multiple phases of construction indicates.

Wrong .. the article did not specifically mention "temporary construction jobs" I quoted it.

When Apple announced the Irish data center in February 2015, it also announced one for Denmark. Construction for that site has completed, and now the center is ready to go live sometime later this year. Around 300 jobs would be created over "multiple phases of construction" at the Irish data center, which would help power Apple's online services across Europe, including iTunes, the App Store, iMessage, Maps, and Siri.

Multiple phases of construction would majority including construction but also:
architectural
plumbing
electrical
zoning
excavation, etc. this are not specific and only relative to construction and can be done individually from construction. That's why I'm pointing out it's not 'temporary construction jobs'.

 

[Sill]

Probably, but you also can't look at birth rates without looking at death rates. Many of the countries with the world's highest birth rates also have the highest death rates (source: CIA) although admittedly the former is higher than the latter. In the United States the birth rate is still 50% higher than the death rate, so we can still do our part. And with something like environmental stewardship, we suck disproportionately per capita. So I'm an equal opportunity anti-human.

Despite the longer lifespan here, it doesn't exactly mean those longer lived people have a giant impact on resources. Generally they spend years living

I'm not anti-human myself, I'm anti-exploitation and anti-aggression.

Thanks. And I was with you until that last bit. I'm not a liberal but I'm no libertarian anarcho-capitalist either. Can't point to something the government isn't doing well to prove that government itself is inherently the problem. I'm a logician and that argument doesn't follow. Libertarians throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't fit into any of those categories you mentioned, but in any case please re-read what I posted. "Once again, government is the problem." I pointed to this as another in a long list of government failures. It was a simple observation, nothing more.

 

[Kabeyun]

Im not anti-human, I'm anti-exploitation and anti-aggression.

As am I. I just go a step further and believe that those traits are inseparably human. Ultimately I think H. sapiens is an evolutionary dead end. Pity.

I don't fit into any of those categories you mentioned, but in any case please re-read what I posted. "Once again, government is the problem." I pointed to this as another in a long list of government failures. It was a simple observation, nothing more.

Fair enough. That occurred to me after I posted. Thx for clarifying. Some libertarians have gotten on my last nerve lately, mostly (but not entirely) for private reasons.

 

[Sill]

As am I. I just go a step further and believe that those traits are inseparably human. Ultimately I think H. sapiens is an evolutionary dead end. Pity.

Something else to consider: perhaps the problem isn't the individual but the collective ant-farm that has grown up and taken on a life of its own? If you're willing to consider that, perhaps you're willing to see where individuals who take care of their own lives and live at their own risk could actually lead towards the next step in the evolution of a polite society?

Fair enough. That occurred to me after I posted. Thx for clarifying. Some libertarians have gotten on my last nerve lately, mostly (but not entirely) for private reasons.

People like to chase ideologies, always thinking that one or another is the answer to life's ills, and when they "see the light" it becomes something that they must evangelize even though they most likely do not have a complete or even significantly partial understanding of their new faith.

The main problem I see with libertarians is that many of them still rally around people that can make their decisions for them. They proclaim to be libertarian but then they completely abandon their avowed foundation - the Non Aggression Principle (NAP), and think that the only way to cure government is to force it, and thereby the country, into a libertarian direction. While the goals of such people (freedom) are noble, inevitably such a campaign will lead to something not much different from the radical left our country seems to be drifting towards. (See the definition of a tyranny for the good of its victims, espoused by CS Lewis for a very succinct explanation.) The problem isn't the person - its the people. Those who band together to enforce their beneficent will against their fellow persons.

Another thing that I've seen difficult about libertarianism is actually external to its adherents; the challenge of the state benefit. When confronted with all the things that have resulted from the state (see the Roman challenge from the Monty Python movie "The Life of Brian"), libertarians typically teeter on the edge between not knowing how to answer or not knowing how not to go off on the challenger for their apparent stupidity.

I learned a while back to return that challenge to people and ask them if they could consider anything happening without government. I ask them to consider a way - any way - that roads, schools, libraries, hospitals, and the like could have happened without government. I usually find that they have almost zero historical knowledge, and probably don't understand even the basic definition of many words that they use in political or sociological conversation. As an example, try talking to someone who throws down the label of "fascist" and see if they know what that word means, not what it signifies. If you can get past the reflexive anger of such people at having their bubble burst and get them to not just listen but to look into things on their own, the transformation can sometimes be remarkable.

So, you may find no use for humanity and see it as a failed experiment in a petri dish called Earth, but I see a huge number of people who have had their growth stunted by well-meaning others, people who otherwise may have changed the world for the better.