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Someone explain how Apple got away with claiming price drop

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raholland

raholland

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 22, 2011
52
2
Virginia
So the presentation they gave say they had a $200 price drop on MBP.

I can't find it.

In 2010 and again in 2011 I bought the entry level 15" MBP; and both times I paid $1799.

After the refresh, the entry level 15" MBP has half of the on-board storage, no built in ethernet, and no SuperDrive ... but now costs $1999.

To get a new MBP configured similarly to the two others I have would now cost $2407.

I don't get it.

Can someone explain what I am missing here?
 
It got a price drop in comparison to the previous rMBP models. They are not claiming it was a price drop from the classic MBP.
 
iPad Air said:
You are speaking of the standard models. :)
Click to expand...
... which don't exist anymore.

Entry level 15" MBP last year = $1799
Entry level 15" MBP now = $1999.

The new one may have a retina display ... but it has half the hard drive space, no Ethernet, and no SuperDrive.

Sounds like they are moving backwards and charging more.
 
It's not that there isn't a price drop, it's that they removed a product line, and are forcing you to pay a very high premium to get something(dGPU) that came standard on the 15" cMBP.

So if you were interested in both of those(old form factor and dGPU), the price has risen dramatically.

Unfortunately, I and many others have interest in both of those, which is why you are seeing lots of complaints about the prices. I'm not sure why others who are singing it's praises can't see that. Apple is basically saying, "we don't value you as a long time loyal customer. So look elsewhere, but we know you'll come crawling back and pay us that big $$$ increase over what you have been paying!!!"
 
raholland said:
... which don't exist anymore.

Entry level 15" MBP last year = $1799
Entry level 15" MBP now = $1999.

The new one may have a retina display ... but it has half the hard drive space, no Ethernet, and no SuperDrive.

Sounds like they are moving backwards and charging more.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, that is moving forwards. But to each their own. Regardless of your viewpoint on that matter, you can't argue that they didn't drop the price. That'd be like saying the MBA is more expensive than the white MacBook even with a "price drop"! While it's still a MacBook Pro through-and-through, it's an entirely new product.
 
AlecMyrddyn said:
Apple was only claiming price drops from last year's Retina models to this year's Retina models.
Click to expand...

So they pick one feature that two different computers have in common (the display type); and lo and behold, this year's is $200 less than last year's.

My point is ... Why not compare "entry level 15" MBP"? Or why not compare computers that have some other design feature in common?

The bottom line is that if you want a 15" MBP this year, you have to spend more than you did last year.
 
Like others have said, it's in relation to the previous-gen rMBPs not the cMBPs. But I agree with you, it feels like a bit of ripoff. Even though you're getting PCIe storage, a Haswell CPU/GPU, a Retina screen, etc. the $1999 price tag for the base 15" seems way out of line!

Don't get me wrong, the 13" is excellent bang for your buck, but why do you have to pay so much more for a 15"?

I think it would have made more sense if Apple dropped the price of the 15" to $1799 and $2399 respectively.
 
raholland said:
... which don't exist anymore.

Entry level 15" MBP last year = $1799
Entry level 15" MBP now = $1999.

The new one may have a retina display ... but it has half the hard drive space, no Ethernet, and no SuperDrive.

Sounds like they are moving backwards and charging more.
Click to expand...

Watch the keynote.
Phil said the starting price dropped from $2199 to $1999; so it's clear what he was talking about.
 
raholland said:
So they pick one feature that two different computers have in common (the display type); and lo and behold, this year's is $200 less than last year's.

My point is ... Why not compare "entry level 15" MBP"? Or why not compare computers that have some other design feature in common?

The bottom line is that if you want a 15" MBP this year, you have to spend more than you did last year.
Click to expand...

Why would they compare it? The 15" classic MBP no longer exists. And as far as Apple is concerned, only the rMBP and MBA remain. It would make no sense to discuss the cMBP in this scenario.

This year's model is $200 less than last year's, it is true. There's really no argument to that. Maybe you think you're getting less value now, but the facts remain.

Give me one solid reason for Apple mentioning a line of products that is on their way out.
 
raholland said:
So they pick one feature that two different computers have in common (the display type); and lo and behold, this year's is $200 less than last year's.

My point is ... Why not compare "entry level 15" MBP"? Or why not compare computers that have some other design feature in common?

The bottom line is that if you want a 15" MBP this year, you have to spend more than you did last year.
Click to expand...

Your argument is pointless, as the classic 15" MBP is no longer a part of the Apple notebook lineup. Apple is accurate in claiming a price drop in the retina model from the previous price of the retina model. Your argument makes as much sense as claiming a price increase from the retina 13 inch of last year to the retina 15 inch at this year. They are different models, and should be compared apples to apples (no pun intended). There is no new price for the classic 13" MBP, so there was no price increase or decrease in that model, and there is no new classic 15" MBP.
 
Interesting, I did not realize until you mentioned it that they discontinued the thicker non-Retina MacBook Pro. Although, they are still offering the non-Retina 13" model, which is what I am typing on right now.

About the features removed: (a)if they put as much flash memory in these things as their predecessors, they would be hundreds of dollars more at this point. (b)Less and less people have a use for Ethernet(I don't have a use for it anymore). And (c)less and less people have use for optical drives. Apple has always been good at looking where things are going and being at least one of the first to remove legacy peripherals.
 
raholland said:
So they pick one feature that two different computers have in common (the display type); and lo and behold, this year's is $200 less than last year's.

My point is ... Why not compare "entry level 15" MBP"? Or why not compare computers that have some other design feature in common?

The bottom line is that if you want a 15" MBP this year, you have to spend more than you did last year.
Click to expand...

I answered your question as to how Apple could claim a price drop.

I didn't say I disagreed with you that it sucks and was misleading. :p

If you want a 15" non-retina, get a refurb while you can.

As to "Why not compare the entry level 15" models"? Because then apple would have to have said they were raising prices. It's all marketing. Apple is moving toward everything supporting Retina screens. They are quietly dropping everything that doesn't. There are even rumors that the MBA will be a 12" Retina model next year sometime.

In Apple's mind, comparing the Retina to non-Retina is like comparing Apples to Oranges. When the grocery store says "Our Oranges are cheaper", complaining about the price of their Apples isn't related.
 
laurihoefs said:
By making a price drop.
Click to expand...

Please try to pay attention.

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AlecMyrddyn said:
As to "Why not compare the entry level 15" models"? Because then apple would have to have said they were raising prices. It's all marketing.
...

In Apple's mind, comparing the Retina to non-Retina is like comparing Apples to Oranges. When the grocery store says "Our Oranges are cheaper", complaining about the price of their Apples isn't related.
Click to expand...

exactly

As I said above, if you want a 15" MBP, it is more expensive this year than it was last year.
 
raholland said:
Please try to pay attention.

----------



exactly

As I said above, if you want a 15" MBP, it is more expensive this year than it was last year.
Click to expand...

And? Apple still lowered the price on the model they were referring to. Besides, I have a feeling that most prospective cMBP buyers would have already bought the 2012 cMBP and/or been interested in the rMBP anyways.
 
Remember that the $1699/$1799 15" macbook pro was a reaction from Apple a few years ago when someone (Microsoft I think) was saying the equivalent laptops started at $1999, so Apple came up with a $1699 or $1799 entry level model and the offender stopped saying that thing as it was no longer true. (Sorry my details are fuzzy here, I'm too lazy to google it all)

They are just now getting back to where they wanted the 15" macbook pro the whole time, $2grand. The $1700ish models were an anomaly while they were getting negative marketing/press against them
 
PDFierro said:
And? Apple still lowered the price on the model they were referring to. Besides, I have a feeling that most prospective cMBP buyers would have already bought the 2012 cMBP and/or been interested in the rMBP anyways.
Click to expand...

Again, please try to pay attention. No prices were lowered. Different models were introduced and some of those cost less than some of last year's models, and some of them cost more than than last year's models.

I suppose in your world it works something like this:
Last year: Retina Display, i7 processor, 8Gb RAM, 500GbHDD $2500
This year: Retina Dispaly, Pentium II, 2GB Ram, 6GbHDD $2000
WoooHoooo! $500 drop on the Retina!!

Yes, if you want one specific feature - a retina display - it is possible to spend less this year compared to last year.

But if you want other features, like 500Gb on-board storage, a 15" display, etc. you are going to pay more than you did last year.
 
raholland said:
As I said above, if you want a 15" MBP, it is more expensive this year than it was last year.
Click to expand...

Pay attention to what I said please. the 15" cMBP and 15" rMBP are not comparable 1:1 just because they are the same screen size.

What was the cost of a cMBP with 8 GB of RAM and a 256 GB SSD plus the enhanced resolution screen? Comparing it to the new base 15" rMBP would be fair.

You might as well be saying that the new MacPro price should be compared to the Mac Mini because the Mac Pro is also a desktop computer. Both of them are sold without a monitor, so Apple just raised the price massively on their desktop computer! It's not fair!
 
akm3 said:
Remember that the $1699/$1799 15" macbook pro was a reaction from Apple a few years ago when someone (Microsoft I think) was saying the equivalent laptops started at $1999, so Apple came up with a $1699 or $1799 entry level model and the offender stopped saying that thing as it was no longer true. (Sorry my details are fuzzy here, I'm too lazy to google it all)

They are just now getting back to where they wanted the 15" macbook pro the whole time, $2grand. The $1700ish models were an anomaly while they were getting negative marketing/press against them
Click to expand...

So why keep the 13" cMBP? Oh that's right, they well a crap ton of them that's why. Whatever you say about the 13" form factor, also applies to the 15" form factor.

Gee, you mean people Think Different(ly) compared to apple and the fanboi's? Why yes, yes thy do.
 
wow, you guys are all so nice and patient. I was grinding my teeth just reading OP's uninformed post.
 
gothamm said:
wow, you guys are all so nice and patient. I was grinding my teeth just reading OP's uninformed post.
Click to expand...

Please tell me the details of how uninformed I am. Please, please, please cure my ignorance with facts.

Please tell me how anything I have said here is wrong. I'm only human, I'm sure I make all kinds of mistakes every day. I'm sure I have been wrong about lots of stuff.

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PDFierro said:
I'm just trying to see what the hell his argument is. There's no logic at all.
Click to expand...

Right.

Let me spell it out for you:
Apple cherry-picked a feature (retina display) and said that there is a model this year with that feature that is $200 less than a model last year with that same feature.

If you want to purchase a 15" MBP after the refresh, the minimum you can spend is $200 MORE than if you tried to do that before the refresh.
 
Technically, you can still get a cMBP, if you don't feel the new models provide proper value to you.

Apple has basically moved their outstanding stock to the Refurb/Clearance section, and there are some great deals to be had. Downside is, best you can expect on the cMBP side is a machine from mid-2012, but the performance delta between Ivy Bridge and Haswell isn't massive.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15

Obviously, as time passes, the machines will become more rare, but they may still pop on for awhile -- I still see MBP17 models show up from time to time. Of course, they'll also become less desireable with time -- Broadwell should provide a nice chunk of performance over Haswell next year, and I doubt the missing cMBP advantages will ever return.
 
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