No, they didn't. You're complaining about a removed product that was already on its way out. It's not Apple's fault you don't like the new Retina Macs.
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Someone explain how Apple got away with claiming price drop
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No, they didn't. You're complaining about a removed product that was already on its way out. It's not Apple's fault you don't like the new Retina Macs.
I don't understand this thread.... Both the 13 inch retina and 15 inch retina start at $200 less than they did last year and are supposedly better than the models they are replacing.
you are comparing two seperate lines of macbooks: the Cmbp and the Rmbp.
the rmbp is redesigned to be thinner, lighter, have a better battery, a better cooling system, more advanced ports, PCIE, and of course, the retina display, which is still not widely adapted and in >1% of all laptops.
and then you go on to say that we are getting LESS because the new rmbp lacks an optical drive, and has less storage. Yet you fail to understand that a 256 gb SSD costs a lot more than a 500gb hdd, and that optical drives are virtually obsolete now in favor of portability
the flaw in your logic is that just because apple is phasing out the cmbp line, doesnt mean that the two are the exact same models.
You are fixated on the 15" screen.
Imagine this:
Apple Automobiles has two models of 4-door sedan in production:
- The budget sedan they've been making since 2009, the CL. 2012 base model sells for $16,000
- The luxury sedan they've been making since 2012, the RE. 2013 base model sells for $22,000
In 2013, they announce that they have made some upgrades to the RE, and they are lowering the price to $20,000. They quietly discontinue the CL.
Your argument: "They raised the price on their 4-door sedan! How can anyone call $20,000 less than $16,000?!??!?!??!?!?one!!!!?!??!?"
Everyone else's argument: "Dude, they discontinued the entry level sedan and lowered the price on the luxury sedan from $22k to $20k..."
Your rebuttal: "But that means I can't buy an Apple Auto Sedan for less than $20, so they raised the price!"
So if ALL you look at is the fact that the cMBP and rMBP both had 15" screens (or 4 doors), by discontinuing the cMBP they have made it more expensive to get a 15" (4 door) vehicle.
But they did lower the price of the rMBP (Luxury), which had a number of features that the Budget model did not.
I understand where you are coming from, but there are a ton of differences between the old base models:
2012 Classic vs early 2013 Retina 15"
1440x900 vs 2880x1800 screen
4GB RAM vs. 8 GB RAM
500 MB 5200 rpm HD vs. 256 GB SSD
GT 650M 512 MB vs. GT 650M 1 GB
DVD vs. no DVD
Apple was comparing the new base Retina with the old base Retina, since the Classic and Retina already differ in so many other ways, even if they are both made of aluminum and have a 15" screen.
Yes, if you want a (current model) 15" laptop from Apple, you now have to buy a Retina model. Yes, that Retina model is more expensive than the previous Classic model. But in the end, Apple did lower the price of the Retina.
NONE of them are the exact same models. That is the problem with what you (and others in this thread) are saying. You (and Apple) are picking one particular feature - the retina display - and claiming a "price drop" because you can get a computer that has that one feature for $200 less than you could before the refresh - meanwhile ignoring all other factors.
It makes just as much sense (or just as little) to pick some other feature - like the size of the screen, or the amount of on-board storage - and do the comparison. Apple just chose the one comparison that would make it seem like the price dropped.
Obviously the components on the entry-level 15" machine cost more than the components in the pre-refresh entry-level 15" machine - and have higher profit margins. Good for Apple! My retirement account is the beneficiary.
Also, a hearty "congratulations" to the marketing genius who so easily convinced everyone that the prices on MBP's fell, when the average price actually increased.
What the die-hard fans are missing here is what I have tried to repeat over and over again... Despite the claim of price drop, it costs more to get a 15" MBP than it did last year. The prices are right there on the website for everyone to see.
It does not cost more to get a retina macbook pro last year than this year. Last year's Rmbp started at 2199. This year it starts at 1999. Hence, the price drop. Its not that complicated.
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quoting this so that hopefully OP can read it a second time.
Of course I see your point. I chose the 15" screen to illustrate my point. They chose a feature that makes it seem like the price dropped. I selected a different feature to show that it is only the selection of the feature that makes it seem as if the price dropped. The price didn't drop.
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I read it. No, the price on the retina did not drop. Instead they introduced a new model that also has the retina and is $200 cheaper than one of the old models that also happened to have a retina display.
Oh. My. God.
It's not just a different feature, it's an entirely different line of product.
How did Coca-Cola get away with bottling tap water and selling it for $1/bottle?
I don't know but I'm glad I have stock in Coca-Cola. Maybe we can get them to bottle air from Cupertino and sell it for $100 to Mac fanboys.
The price on the Retina did drop. They did not introduce a new model that also has the Retina. The old model did not ever have a Retina display.
Man, I give up.
Finally we have agreement!!!!
All of the models this year represent an entirely different line of product. They also happen to have some similar features - like the retina display. Just because you are fixated on the retina display doesn't change the facts.
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So they didn't have retina models before the refresh?
Yeah, I give up too.
But this entirely different product also existed last year. Apple just simply kept the OLD model around.
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You were trying to claim that the 15-inch model that was cheaper before Tuesday had Retina. Which was not the case.
They didn't choose a feature, they are comparing prices in a model.
The rMBP model is a combination of features. The 15" rMBP includes the Retina 15" screen, a particular form factor case, and SSD.
The cMBP model had it's own unique set of features. The 15" cMBP included a spinning hard drive, larger form factor, lower resolution screen and DVD drive.
I get where you are coming from. But the way you are stating it is frustrating, and a little tantrum-esque. Apple did lower the price on the entry level Retina model.
You keep complaining that they raised the price on the 15" model - there's no such thing. There's a 15" Retina OR a 15" Classic. The two models were significantly different enough that they warranted being called models.
Is this a pedantic word choice issue? Maybe. If you had started this thread by saying "I'm unhappy that Apple removed the Classic 15" MBP line. The rMBP is $2000, and while that's cheaper than last year for a Retina, it's still more expensive than the old entry level Classic." then you wouldn't be getting so many people disagreeing with you.
But what you've been saying are things like "So the presentation they gave say they had a $200 price drop on MBP. I can't find it." Which is a lie. You can find it, you KNOW just as we do that Apple was talking about the rMBP.
If you want to complain that the cMBP is gone, go ahead. But please stop acting like you don't understand the difference between the 15" cMBP and 15" rMBP. They are different, and it's obvious you understand and are just being stubborn in your focus on one single feature that both models share.
I'll be happy to help you out with that:
The fallacy in your argument is that you believe the only difference between the retina model and the classic model is the screen. That is not true. The retina model MacBook Pro is a completely redesigned computer, including the case, the cooling system, the RAM, the flash memory, etc., and yes, the display. They didn't simply take a 15 inch classic MBP and simlpy add a retina display to it. Comparing the retina and classic model pricing makes no sense at all, as they are completely different computers.
Your argument is akin to complaining that if Chevrolet announced that they reduced the price of the Camaro from the year before, you're claiming the price was increased because the Chevrolet Cobalt (which has been discontinued) was cheaper.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree with your car analogy. The thing is, while it is technically true that the price of retina (or luxury sedan) was decreased, it is highly deceiving for a manufacturer to make a statement like that while at the same time completely eliminating an even lower cost model.
The fact is, the entry level price for a 15" Apple laptop went up. And even for the model that got the price reduction, that reduction is not without a compromise - specifically, it's missing dGPU. Many argue that most people don't need it, but I can just as easily claim that most people don't need retina screens either. Despite being a pretty good graphics chip, Iris Pro is still less powerful than the GT 650M of the previous generation.
Ultimately, Apple got off on a technicality, and I cannot respect that kind of behaviour on their part.
It is curious to note that the difference in price between the higher end retina (with dGPU) and the lower end model with all upgrades applied to match the other one (just with no dGPU) is exactly $0. Why would they not offer the dGPU model with lower specs, and lower price? I don't know what their reasons really are, but I doubt it's because they thought it would be best for their customers.
Removing that choice has the same effect as discontinuing 15" cMBP - it forces people to pay more who would otherwise be content with a lower spec device.
HOLY HELL HOW DO YOU NOT GET IT?!
Forget the non-Retina MBP. Don't even bring it up when comparing Retina prices.
The BASE 2012 Retina 15" came with 8GB memory and a 256GB SSD, price was $2199.
The NEW BASE 2013 Retina 15" comes with 8GB memory and a 256GB SDD, price is $1999. $200 cheaper.
Period. That's it. Done. I you can't understand this then you're beyond help.
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You may not agree with it, but that's a personal choice and no, they didn't get off on a technicality. The 15" Retina has a starting price that's $200 less than last year's model. Period. No deception. You're adding your own twist to what was said to make it seem like they're being deceptive when they aren't.
Had they said "the base 15" MacBook Pro is now $200 less than last year" then you would be correct. That's not what was said, so I don't know why you're twisting what was said or completely fabricating statements.
nope. This is what apple said:
"we are cutting the price of the retina macbook pro by $200"
and they discontinued the cmbp.
No deception here. Sorry.
I agree with you, I was just trying to spin things to the OP who doesn't seem to agree that the rMBP and cMBP are different models.
You at least understand and agree that the price of the 15 rMBP was reduced. At the same time, you and I both agree and think it kind of sucks that because the 15" cMBP was discontinued, it also means that the price of entry to a 15" laptop is higher.
The two are mutually exclusive though. The 15" rMBP is cheaper this year. Yeah, part of the reason for that is the lack of a dGPU, but for a lot of people, that doesn't matter.
Is it crappy marketing on Apple's part? Probably.
No, I do not believe that the only difference is the screen. I believe that there are few similarities and many differences.
Yes, the "retina model MacBook Pro is a completely redesigned computer" ... and the computers after the refresh that have the retina display are different than the computers before the refresh that had the retina display. They are, in many ways, different models entirely.
To say that there was "a price drop on the retina model" is simply not correct, unless you say something like "Here is a model that costs $200 less than a model we sold last year that has many or most of the same features."
But if that is a "price drop"... it is only a price drop on a technicality. And if it is arbitrary for me to choose screen size and claim price increase, then it is also arbitrary to choose the retina display (or some other feature or set of features) and claim price decrease.
Again, my point: If you want a 15" MBP, you will pay more after the refresh than you would before the refresh.
I'm not an idiot. I get it. Apple phased out a particular display technology, along with a case design and a small set of features that went with it.
The difference between me and some of you who have posted in this thread seems to be that I don't think you are idiots either. I just think that your allegiance to Apple has made you extraordinarily susceptible to marketing tactics.
There is this concept in advertising, weasel words. Since Apple is a company with some of the best marketing in the world, they obviously know how to use them very well. In this case "retina" is that word.
"The 15" Retina has a starting price that's $200 less than last year's model" - completely true statement. But without the addition of "we also discontinued the even cheaper classic 15" MBP" the statement is incomplete. They reworked their pricing on 15" laptops in a way that will definitely force many people to pay more for features they would have omitted if they had a choice.
And that's why the OP is pissed off. It's not about the wording really, it's about the much more aggressive pricing model of their current 15" lineup.
Just goes to show that some people will just make stuff up to bash Apple when they can't find anything legitimate.....
$2199 - $1999 = $200
The math checks out.
$2199 - $1999 = $200
The math checks out.
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