Someone explain how Apple got away with claiming price drop

[raholland]

The 15" rMBP is cheaper this year. Yeah, part of the reason for that is the lack of a dGPU, but for a lot of people, that doesn't matter.

Is it crappy marketing on Apple's part? Probably.

I understood what you were saying, but again, I don't think you see what I'm saying. Yes, you can get a computer with the 15" retina display for $200 less than the cheapest retina model last year; but they are not exactly the same.

And if they are not exactly the same, then it isn't a price drop. If you think it is still fair to call it a price drop, because the two models share the retina display; then it is also fair to call it a price increase (even though I'm not claiming that) because the two models I'm comparing share the screen size.

I don't think Apple is evil for doing this ... I think it is slick - but deceptive - marketing.

I'm sure it will succeed.

 

[laurihoefs]

It is curious to note that the difference in price between the higher end retina (with dGPU) and the lower end model with all upgrades applied to match the other one (just with no dGPU) is exactly $0. Why would they not offer the dGPU model with lower specs, and lower price? I don't know what their reasons really are, but I doubt it's because they thought it would be best for their customers.

I was wondering this too, but I think there might be a simple practical reason for this.

The 2012 rMBP was initially only offered in two configurations too, and the options were limited. For example you could not configure the cheaper model with the largest SSD, or even change the processor, if I remember correctly (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). After a while the limitations were lifted, and you could configure the models freely.

So it might just be, that Apple tries to clear the initial rush of orders out of the way as quickly as possible, before the production lines start rolling out CTOs.

 

[raholland]

Just goes to show that some people will just make stuff up to bash Apple when they can't find anything legitimate.....


$2199 - $1999 = $200


The math checks out.

I'm not accusing you of being stupid. Please don't accuse me.

$2199 for a model that doesn't exist any more.
$1999 for a brand new model (that happens to share some features of the one that doesn't exist any more)

It is only a price drop if the retina display is the only feature you look at.

Look two posts up for an explanation of what I mean.

 

[gothamm]

I understood what you were saying, but again, I don't think you see what I'm saying. Yes, you can get a computer with the 15" retina display for $200 less than the cheapest retina model last year; but they are not exactly the same.

And if they are not exactly the same, then it isn't a price drop. If you think it is still fair to call it a price drop, because the two models share the retina display; then it is also fair to call it a price increase because the two models I'm comparing share the screen size.

I don't think Apple is evil for doing this ... I think it is slick - but deceptive - marketing.

I'm sure it will succeed.

You are right. They are not exactly the same. It's $200 cheaper and is upgraded to the latest processors.

 

[AlecMyrddyn]

I understood what you were saying, but again, I don't think you see what I'm saying. Yes, you can get a computer with the 15" retina display for $200 less than the cheapest retina model last year; but they are not exactly the same.

And if they are not exactly the same, then it isn't a price drop. If you think it is still fair to call it a price drop, because the two models share the retina display; then it is also fair to call it a price increase because the two models I'm comparing share the screen size.

I don't think Apple is evil for doing this ... I think it is slick - but deceptive - marketing.

I'm sure it will succeed.

Here's my big issue:

One one hand, you are saying you cannot compare an Ivy Bridge Retina to a Haswell Retina because they are not the same model.

Then you turn around and say you have to compare all 15" Apple MBPs, Classic or Retina, because they all have 15" screens.

If you want to make the argument that the cMBP has gone away, and it sucks because that means the cost of entry is higher for a MBP with a 15" screen size, then make that argument. But you aren't.

I think you are being deliberately argumentative because you want to be.

If you can compare all 15" MBPs when talking price. We can choose to compare all 15" rMBPs, regardless of year of manufacture. Our comparisons are just as valid as yours.

 

[NewbieCanada]

It got a price drop in comparison to the previous rMBP models. They are not claiming it was a price drop from the classic MBP.

I prefer the term "the at long last discontinued non-retina MacBook "pro""

 

[marddin]

... which don't exist anymore.

Entry level 15" MBP last year = $1799
Entry level 15" MBP now = $1999.

The new one may have a retina display ... but it has half the hard drive space, no Ethernet, and no SuperDrive.

Sounds like they are moving backwards and charging more.

Your argument is not valid. I can't get past the no ethernet whining.

----------

So they pick one feature that two different computers have in common (the display type); and lo and behold, this year's is $200 less than last year's.

My point is ... Why not compare "entry level 15" MBP"? Or why not compare computers that have some other design feature in common?

The bottom line is that if you want a 15" MBP this year, you have to spend more than you did last year.

What is so hard to understand that you are comparing 2 different products. A cMBP and a rMBP. Clearly a price drop from 2012 Retina to 2013 Retina. Jesus.

 

[raholland]

Here's my big issue:

Then you turn around and say you have to compare all 15" Apple MBPs, Classic or Retina, because they all have 15" screens.

No, that isn't what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that Apple claimed a price drop; but there was actually an average price increase across the line ... and no models (where "model" means an exact set of features and hardware) actually had their price lowered.

If you want to still call it a price drop because you can get a computer that has a retina display for $200 less than the cheapest retina display from before the refresh, that is fine.

But you simply cannot buy a computer for $200 less than you could buy it before the refresh.

 

[PDFierro]

No, that isn't what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that Apple claimed a price drop; but there was actually an average price increase across the line ... and no models (where "model" means an exact set of features and hardware) actually had their price lowered.

If you want to still call it a price drop because you can get a computer that has a retina display for $200 less than the cheapest retina display from before the refresh, that is fine.

But you simply cannot buy a computer for $200 less than you could buy it before the refresh.

Apple only claimed a price drop on the rMBP. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[raholland]

What is so hard to understand that you are comparing 2 different products. A cMBP and a rMBP. Clearly a price drop from 2012 Retina to 2013 Retina. Jesus.

What is so hard to understand about the fact that you are comparing two different models and claiming that there was a price drop?

Oh, that's right. Just because they both have a retina display, that means that they are exactly the same.

Nevermind.

 

[marddin]

Please try to pay attention.

----------


We are paying attention. The response "by making a price drop" is true.
/close thread

 

[raholland]

Apple only claimed a price drop on the rMBP. Nothing more, nothing less.

There is no such thing as "the rMBP" ... there are many configurations; and none of the ones that supposedly cost $200 less existed before the refresh. If they didn't exist before the refresh, then there was no drop in price.

If it is still fair to call it a price drop, because they share some features in common; then it is also fair to call it a price increase (which I'm not doing) because this year's model with some other feature costs $200 more than last year's model with that same feature.

 

[Yahooligan]

Perhaps to clarify what the OP is thinking, since he/she hasn't been particularly clear other than saying "they're different," one must first look at what was ACTUALLY said in the first place.

Apple never said it's $200 cheaper for the same model. If you actually watch the video, Apple says the previous model STARTED at $2199 and the new model STARTS at $1999 and THEN they go on to show the full specs of the machine that's $1999! There was no "it's now $200 cheaper." That was all inferred by only looking at the price difference. "Hey, look, the 15" Retina dropped in price by $200."

There was no price DROP. There was a new price STRUCTURE introduced with the new hardware. The new model has a lower STARTING price due to lacking some features (Such as dGPU). It was never claimed to be the same model only cheaper. That was poor, incorrect assumptions made on the public's part.

Time to stop misinterpreting what Apple said, there was nothing deceptive or shady about the announcement had you actually watched the keynote.

 

[GGJstudios]

To say that there was "a price drop on the retina model" is simply not correct, unless you say something like "Here is a model that costs $200 less than a model we sold last year that has many or most of the same features."

It makes no sense for Apple to say "here is a retina MacBook Pro that costs $200 less then a Mac Pro model we sold last year", or "we're sad to announce that the new MacBook Pro with retina display costs more than the Mac Mini did last year". Because you choose to group an outdated model MacBook Pro with the new models, based solely on their screen size, doesn't mean Apple is obligated to use the same reasoning.

Directly from the keynote address, starting about 25 minutes into the address:

And now we have brought out both a 13" and a 15" retina display MacBook Pro. And both are having major updates today.

What followed was a discussion of the new features of both the 13" and 15" retina display MacBook Pros. None of those features appear in the classic MacBook Pro, and throughout the discussion, reference was continually made to the "new MacBook Pros". The classic MacBook Pro is not new. There is no ambiguity at all in Apple's statement regarding the price reduction. Nowhere during the keynote address was the classic 15" MacBook Pro even mentioned.

This argument is typical of those who claim that Apple is lying, deceiving, making false statements etc., when the real translation is you're upset because Apple didn't cater to your every whim. Apple did not deceive anyone in their statements about the price reduction. Only those who read into their statements what was never said could draw such a conclusion.

It really gets old hearing people bellyache because Apple didn't do what they want Apple to do. Fortunately, Apple is too smart an organization to listen to a large number of the computer buyers in the world, who only care about what they personally want, and have no clue on how to intelligently and successfully run a multibillion dollar company. If you don't like what Apple offers for sale, or you don't like their pricing, buy something else. It's as simple as that.

 

[charlieroberts]

Technically, you can still get a cMBP, if you don't feel the new models provide proper value to you.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/15

this x 1000

If you want to buy a MBP THIS year, you can pay less than LAST year if you shop refurb. So no problem. Apple has stopped producing such machines so get it while you can, full of ethernet, superdrives and spining HDs.

If you value the screen and portability you got a new machine that starts lower that the old machine. Thus a pricedrop has been created.
Specs differ between new and old, some better some worse, thats the way it works.
Entry price is lower -> price drop
spec match with older machine is more expensive -> iPadification of electronics has its downsides.

 

[raholland]

Perhaps to clarify what the OP is thinking, since he/she hasn't been particularly clear other than saying "they're different," one must first look at what was ACTUALLY said in the first place.

Apple never said it's $200 cheaper for the same model. If you actually watch the video, Apple says the previous model STARTED at $2199 and the new model STARTS at $1999 and THEN they go on to show the full specs of the machine that's $1999! There was no "it's now $200 cheaper." That was all inferred by only looking at the price difference. "Hey, look, the 15" Retina dropped in price by $200."

There was no price DROP. There was a new price STRUCTURE introduced with the new hardware. The new model has a lower STARTING price due to lacking some features (Such as dGPU). It was never claimed to be the same model only cheaper. That was poor, incorrect assumptions made on the public's part.

Time to stop misinterpreting what Apple said, there was nothing deceptive or shady about the announcement had you actually watched the keynote.

Yes, thank you for clarifying that (and I'm not being sarcastic, as I was in other posts).

You are right. Apple did not claim a price drop, so I suppose I can't fault them for the fact that there was no price drop.

Instead, they discontinued a set of features; and they introduced a brand spanking new model with retina that costs $200 less than a totally different model that also has retina.

 

[PDFierro]

There is no such thing as "the rMBP" ... there are many configurations; and none of the ones that supposedly cost $200 less existed before the refresh. If they didn't exist before the refresh, then there was no drop in price.

If it is still fair to call it a price drop, because they share some features in common; then it is also fair to call it a price increase (which I'm not doing) because this year's model with some other feature costs $200 more than last year's model with that same feature.

MacBook Pro with Retina Display = rMBP. Go on Apple's website for proof.

 

[Yahooligan]

That's exactly what they said. Directly from the keynote address, starting about 25 minutes into the address:

Please go re-watch the keynote during the rMBP announcement, specifically where price is mentioned. Your "that's exactly what they said" was, technically, never said. You inferred it.

 

[raholland]

MacBook Pro with Retina Display = rMBP. Go on Apple's website for proof.

Show me the one rMBP, and the one price that goes with it. Then, show me how you you had to pay $200 more for it before the refresh.

 

[johnnylarue]

There is no such thing as "the rMBP" ... there are many configurations; and none of the ones that supposedly cost $200 less existed before the refresh. If they didn't exist before the refresh, then there was no drop in price.

If it is still fair to call it a price drop, because they share some features in common; then it is also fair to call it a price increase (which I'm not doing) because this year's model with some other feature costs $200 more than last year's model with that same feature.

What the eff!?

Are you just posting to entertain yourself at this point?

You do acknowledge that the '15" MacBook Pro with Retina Display', as it is officially known, has a different chassis and hardware configuration than the now-discontinued 15" MacBook Pro, yes? It's thinner, it lacks a DVD drive, sports a different array of ports, and yes it has a Retina Display. (You should check it out--it's a cool computer!)

The base configuration for this model, the 15" MacBook Pro with Retina Display, comes with 8GB of RAM and 256GB of flash storage. It sells for $1999.

Last year's equivalent model, the 15" MacBook Pro with Retina Display, sporting 8GB RAM and 256GB of flash storage, sold for $2199.

Therefore, it's $200 cheaper. And guess what? The higher-end models are $200 cheaper too!

I swear, it's a virtual Price-Drop Revolution at MacBook Pro HQ this season...

Don't let me get in the way of your fun if you want to keep debating this from a Dada-esque perspective, but you might want to warn other posters not to take your whimsical statements at face value. You know, out of respect for the collective sanity of the people reading this thread.

 

[charlieroberts]

What I'm saying is that Apple claimed a price drop; but there was actually an average price increase across the line ... and no models (where "model" means an exact set of features and hardware) actually had their price lowered.

.

Well actually an exact set of features can be found for less than last year, in the refurb store.

Im sorry but there are no "exact matches" of features and hardware across updates, that's why they update the machines, to change them, usually for the better.

But i bet you know this and are only bored