Something better round the corner

[josh bear]

hi all

Looking for opinion. I am in the market for a 13 inch MBP but recognize there is an apple event in June where a new mbp may be announced. Apart from a spec bump which I probably won’t need. Is there any real reason to wait? My main use is photoshop and Lightroom with very large dng files. I use a 2018 MP Air but it is struggling with the files from my new camera. Last night it took three hours to process previews for 2000 dng files, with the fan on!

As I said I know no one has the inside knowledge so opinions welcome.

Thanks

Josh

 

[maflynn]

Is there any real reason to wait?

We're a month away from WWDC, with so many questions related to the keyboard and some rumors of a 16" laptop (though I don't think that will happen in 2019), its better to wait, if you can. If it turns out to be a spec bump, you only wasted time, if its more then that, you saved yourself from getting a machine that you'd probably regret.

 

[josh bear]

Thanks. 16 inch would be too big for my needs but if there was to be a new design for the 13 inch then that could be of interest.

Re the keyboard is the 2018 pro the same as the 2018 Air?

Thanks

 

[maflynn]

Re the keyboard is the 2018 pro the same as the 2018 Air?

All new Mac laptops now use the flawed and defective butterfly keyboard.

 

[josh bear]

Thanks. I like the keyboard on my Air but know some people have had issues.

 

[sosumi99]

There has been no rumors at all of new designs for the 13-inch. My guess is that the best scenario is there will be a modest spec bump and another refinement of the keyboard (Membrane 2.0). However, it's perhaps even more likely that there won't be any updates to the MBP until later in the year.

 

[lambertjohn]

There has been no rumors at all of new designs for the 13-inch. My guess is that the best scenario is there will be a modest spec bump and another refinement of the keyboard (Membrane 2.0). However, it's perhaps even more likely that there won't be any updates to the MBP until later in the year.

why would there be a membrane 2.0? Although the current gen 3 keyboard still has some issues, it's nothing like the issues with the gen 2 or gen 1 keyboard. My guess is, Apple is going to stick with the gen 3 keyboard until they totally redesign it on a future Macbook.

 

[s15119]

All new Mac laptops now use the flawed and defective butterfly keyboard.

One person's flawed and defective is another person's best keyboard they've ever used. SOME people have problems with the latest keyboards. Others love them.

 

[maflynn]

One person's flawed and defective is another person's best keyboard they've ever used.

Enoying the keyboard has nothign to do with the quality and durability. The fact remains that the 2016 and 2017 butterfly keyboards have spawned multiple class action lawsuits a repair program and Apple recently apologized for the keyboard. You may love the keyboard but that doesn't mean its not flawed.

 

[nouveau_redneck]

We're a month away from WWDC, with so many questions related to the keyboard and some rumors of a 16" laptop (though I don't think that will happen in 2019), its better to wait, if you can. If it turns out to be a spec bump, you only wasted time, if its more then that, you saved yourself from getting a machine that you'd probably regret.

I think saying "probably regret" is quite the assumptive hyperbole.

I'm not denying that Apple have issues with the butterfly keyboard, but with millions of laptops sold with them, the vast majority of people not having an issue. The chances of getting a defective one is minimal. Obviously, the people that have defective ones are vocal, but they are in the minority. If someone buys a machine with a bad keyboard, Apple will take care of it. Yes, it would be a hassle.

 

[maflynn]

I think saying "probably regret" is quite the assumptive hyperbole.

I disagree, they're failing so much that apple offered an apology and has a repair program.

 

[LeeW]

why would there be a membrane 2.0?

Because they will continue to try and redesign their way out of trouble with each modest spec update rather than come up with a completely new design that won't be seen before 2020.

 

[nouveau_redneck]

I disagree, they're failing so much that apple offered an apology and has a repair program.

Good, maybe they will fix or replace the design. It's obviously a bad one. But that doesn't change the fact that most people are not having issues. So yes, it is assumptive on your part to tell someone they probably regret getting one.

 

[LeeW]

The chances of getting a defective one is minimal.

I returned my 2018 MBP 13 this week with a faulty keyboard after just a couple of months of very careful care and attention. One of the guys at the genius bar said there isn't a day goes by without a faulty keyboard coming in.

Been very loyal to Apple but they have lost me on the laptop side, happy with my new Mac Mini though.

A few months back I posted stats from the hardware team of my company, you get to choose your own setup, lots of users. The MBP was the biggest issue out of every brand due to the keyboard. Today if you look on the ordering page, all MBP options are greyed out with "Not fit for purpose" across the image.

Doesn't sound like a minimal chance.

Sure, people here will be vocal when it goes wrong, but just because people are not signing up to complain when it does is not an indication the issue is not bigger than you believe. Apple will certainly never reveal the numbers. And they would not provide a repair program if it was insignificant.

 

[s15119]

Enoying the keyboard has nothign to do with the quality and durability. The fact remains that the 2016 and 2017 butterfly keyboards have spawned multiple class action lawsuits a repair program and Apple recently apologized for the keyboard. You may love the keyboard but that doesn't mean its not flawed.

Did any of those lawsuits win? anyone can file a lawsuit.

 

[Donnation]

While I doubt they change the actual design of the keyboard, they will have to make it more durable somehow. Apple isn't going to admit that this butterfly keyboard they were so proud of is a bust, even though it most certainly is. They will have figured out a way to fix it for sure, but its going to be the same design. Apart from possibly a larger screen, I would bet the only other differences are a spec bump and a fixed keyboard.

The bigger issue I have is the bridge os crash that I get several times a week. Its completely unacceptable, and the fact that Apple won't address it or doesn't know how to fix it is absurd.

 

[Infinite Vortex]

There's always something better, if not at least different, around the corner. While any new MBP 13" may well contain 9th gen CPUs and chipsets this doesn't mean they're going to perform significantly better. Its my opinion what holds the MBPs back is its thermal solution, that is, Apple's love affair with thinness. The thinness will also affect Apple's ability, or willingness, to change the butterfly keyboard. And then there's the Y-series CPU in the MacBook Air 2018 vs the U-series in the MBP 13" 2018… there's quite a difference there the moment multi-core is required.

Its basically a year since the last update so I'd probably wait although you need to balance out what you gain (greater productivity) by waiting vs what you lose (lost productivity) by waiting as you need to be prepared for the possibility that the new MBPs may well be 6+ months away.

 

[maflynn]

Did any of those lawsuits win? anyone can file a lawsuit.

Does it matter? I just stated that the keyboard failures spawned multiple class action suits

 

[Mendota]

Did any of those lawsuits win? anyone can file a lawsuit.

They are still ongoing.

 

[s15119]

Does it matter? I just stated that the keyboard failures spawned multiple class action suits

yeah, it matters. Facts always matter. I would also point out that I was responding to a post that said ALL recent mac laptops had keyboards that "flawed and defective" - that statement is false on it's face. Facts matter.

 

[CRoebuck]

Why do people deny this keyboard issue? I love love love typing on mine but I've had 2 fail on the 2017 and 1 on 2016. Along with multiple screen failures on both devices, I bought a 2018 and the Touchbar was DOA so returned it. I did actually use my MacBook, maybe that was my crime. I and many others stick with Apple based on past experience and OS X (Mac OS) but pretending that the keyboard isn't flawed is just fooling yourself. They screwed up, they've said sorry, replacements must be hitting profit so why wouldn't they redesign this year if they can.

 

[josh bear]

Thanks All,

I appreciate having a forum gain opinions. (My family's interest in subjects like this extends only as far as "Is the wifi working?" ). The keyboard issue is real although I have had no issues on my 2018 Air or the 2018 MBP work issued me 6 month ago. (sadly losing that now as I move to another company).

Aside from the raw file processing time I am also having issues on the Air re disk space since I updated my camera recently and when I bought the Air didn't know that I would be doing this. The DNG files are double the size of what I had from my old camera so after a day's shoot I am finding that I have to remove projects that are still active to external drives and then move them back again. All time consuming.

Anyway thanks again. I have an 2015 Macbook and an old camera to sell that should bring in just over £1k which takes the sting out of the tail of a purchase of a new MBP. The Air could go to my daughter who starts at university in Sept. Note that I am testing my discussion points with you that I will use with the other half

Regards

Josh

 

[LeeW]

yeah, it matters. Facts always matter. I would also point out that I was responding to a post that said ALL recent mac laptops had keyboards that "flawed and defective" - that statement is false on it's face. Facts matter.

When you look at the facts then. What is every report on MR and other places reporting when it comes to issues on the butterfly keyboard, regardless of the generation?

1. R key most commonly stops working, can affect others
2. Spacebar/shift key stops working
3. Keys when pressed cause repeating

These issues often appear at an early age of the device. But always within the confines of the three points listed above.

Whatever spin you want to put on it, the keyboard has issues that manifest themselves in one of the ways listed above in every reported instance. I don't see any other term that fits this than a design flaw. Which in turns means that every keyboard is defective in that it's a game of chance as to whether or at what time you experience any of the issues.

Also fair to say that this simply shouldn't be a problem that laptop users face. Of course, components will always face failure, but not to this degree.

I know many that have never had an issue, someone recently stated that they were very careful with their new 2018 MBP and it developed the faults within weeks yet their girlfriend who has a 2016 MBP cares little about hers, eats over it, spills things on it and has never had an issue. Like I say, a game of chance.

This is simply not an issue that has concerned other brands of laptop at this level in the market, ever. Too thin, too fragile, too unreliable.

 

[Donnation]

Why do people deny this keyboard issue? I love love love typing on mine but I've had 2 fail on the 2017 and 1 on 2016. Along with multiple screen failures on both devices, I bought a 2018 and the Touchbar was DOA so returned it. I did actually use my MacBook, maybe that was my crime. I and many others stick with Apple based on past experience and OS X (Mac OS) but pretending that the keyboard isn't flawed is just fooling yourself. They screwed up, they've said sorry, replacements must be hitting profit so why wouldn't they redesign this year if they can.

I think there are a couple of reasons. The first being that their particular device hasn't had a problem (yet). The second just has to do with verifying an expensive purchase. No one wants to know or admit that something they paid a significant amount of money for has an inherent design flaw. My 2018 has not had a keyboard issue, but I do believe that where there is smoke, there is fire.

 

[LeeW]

No one wants to know or admit that something they paid a significant amount of money for has an inherent design flaw.

I took the view that I knew what could happen but I would deal with it should the need arise. The need arose and it was returned