Sonnet Shipping First New Thunderbolt 2 PCIe Expansion Chassis
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nick_elt
macrumors 68000
Gamers dont use osx
I have to disagree ; PCIe has more uses than ever, at least potentially, due to fast PCIe based SSDs and USB 3.0 cards, and of course FW and eSATA for backward compatibility .
What actually is a very small niche, is a workstation with dual GPU, single CPU, smallest possible size, single internal drive, no internal extensions .
I understand the appeal of the nMP, but there is no denying that only the small size is 'new' , nothing else, and that until recently 1k worth of expansion slots came free with every MP .
Key word being "potentially". I'm not talking about what people could do, I'm talking about what people are actually doing. PCIe has always been a niche, and it's only heading more in that direction.
Let me fix that for you.
And it's only getting more niche.
G51989
macrumors 68030
This.
Thunderbolt 2 is just to slow to have an effective external GPU.
And whenever Thunderbolt 3 comes out, Video cards will have gotten even faster, as will PCIE
ElderBrE
macrumors regular
External GPUs with TB1 already worked fine with these solutions under OSX and Windows, so not sure what you guys are rolling about. It doesn't use the whole throughput of the card, but due to how games work, it doesn't need it anyway...
Demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxxtd2kVf0I
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
Beyond the high price, the real question for OSX is whether there will even be any PCI expansion cards to use in OSX in the future to make these things viable in any sense of the word. With not official Apple products even offering PCI slots any longer, that pretty much means a near ZERO market for such cards and that means that manufacturers won't offer them any for the Mac much longer (the Mac Pro did have some support, but the new one ditches PCI expansion like a bad habit).
The only thing I can see this thing being used for is Boot Camp with Windows, but then the question is who would spend that much money on a PCI expansion chassis to use only with Windows on a Mac? For that price, why not just buy a desktop PC instead? I mean you can get a full PC for what this expansion chassis is selling for.... And since no Mac has something killer on its platform that you can't get on a PC, I fails to see ANY reason WHAT-SO-EVER for this device to even exist. Early new Mac Pro adopters wanting to use their old Mac Pro PCI cards?
I CAN see a market for a gaming GPU card for an i7 Mac Mini or with a Macbook when docked, but the high price of the chassis + graphics card makes that totally unrealistic/unreasonable. Again, you can build a pretty darn good gaming PC for $1200. Why on Earth would I want to spend $600 to get a chassis to stick in a $400 graphics card that isn't going to be able to run full speed and can only operate under Windows? We'd be better off if someone would offer a decent GPU card in a box with a thunderbolt cable (no expansion slots; just hard-wired) that already has OSX support (like the most recent old Mac Pro offerings). If they could be done for a total price of $600-800, I could see some sales there for someone who wants their Mac to game without buying a whole second computer and you would save $500 or so even if it's not as fast as what you could get for $1200 in a dedicated system. I just don't know if it would be fast enough even so worth the bother.
It's a darn shame that Apple simply doesn't offer a Mac Mini desktop model with a mid-to-high range single slot gaming GPU for $1200-1400. You can get a quad-i7 with RAID0 2TB and 8GB ram for around $1000 give or take. It just needs a better GPU.... That would make the whole Thunderbolt idea moot for the vast majority of users since that's got to be the number one idea of interest to most people...the idea of having a desktop quality gaming dock setup (perhaps even a portable one to plug in when the thing is plugged into an AC outlet on the go like at a hotel). The problem is it's not going to happen, at least for a reasonable price with OSX compatibility.
The only thing I can see this thing being used for is Boot Camp with Windows, but then the question is who would spend that much money on a PCI expansion chassis to use only with Windows on a Mac? For that price, why not just buy a desktop PC instead? I mean you can get a full PC for what this expansion chassis is selling for.... And since no Mac has something killer on its platform that you can't get on a PC, I fails to see ANY reason WHAT-SO-EVER for this device to even exist. Early new Mac Pro adopters wanting to use their old Mac Pro PCI cards?
I CAN see a market for a gaming GPU card for an i7 Mac Mini or with a Macbook when docked, but the high price of the chassis + graphics card makes that totally unrealistic/unreasonable. Again, you can build a pretty darn good gaming PC for $1200. Why on Earth would I want to spend $600 to get a chassis to stick in a $400 graphics card that isn't going to be able to run full speed and can only operate under Windows? We'd be better off if someone would offer a decent GPU card in a box with a thunderbolt cable (no expansion slots; just hard-wired) that already has OSX support (like the most recent old Mac Pro offerings). If they could be done for a total price of $600-800, I could see some sales there for someone who wants their Mac to game without buying a whole second computer and you would save $500 or so even if it's not as fast as what you could get for $1200 in a dedicated system. I just don't know if it would be fast enough even so worth the bother.
It's a darn shame that Apple simply doesn't offer a Mac Mini desktop model with a mid-to-high range single slot gaming GPU for $1200-1400. You can get a quad-i7 with RAID0 2TB and 8GB ram for around $1000 give or take. It just needs a better GPU.... That would make the whole Thunderbolt idea moot for the vast majority of users since that's got to be the number one idea of interest to most people...the idea of having a desktop quality gaming dock setup (perhaps even a portable one to plug in when the thing is plugged into an AC outlet on the go like at a hotel). The problem is it's not going to happen, at least for a reasonable price with OSX compatibility.
chirpie
macrumors 6502a
If that's your aim, there are cheaper solutions than this. (ViDock is what, 250-ish?)
Plus, this part...
Was true on the previous gen mac pro.
NT1440
macrumors P6
Gamers are hilarious.
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
What's your idea of a "gamer" ??? Honestly, you've NEVER played a game EVER on any computer? Seriously? How boring. Otherwise, stop labeling people before someone labels you.
NT1440
macrumors P6
What's your idea of a "gamer" ??? Honestly, you've NEVER played a game EVER on any computer? Seriously? How boring. Otherwise, stop labeling people before someone labels you.
I'm talking about the people whom only seem to talk about gaming and their rigs. I worked at Best Buy for two years and its shocking to me how broad this group seems to be, teens and people all the way into their 40's.
What I've noticed on forums, however, is everything in terms of technology seems to be poo-poo'd unless it somehow makes a framerate better or some nonsense like that, and this group seems to think that decisions made for consumer devices are somehow an affront to them.
Just my observations.
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
And all I'm saying is that Apple lacks a decent GPU to play today's games (whether one plays casually or something more is beside the point). I only see two categories of people who want a PCI card chassis.
One is professionals who need a certain PCI card for work. There probably are some Mac Pro users that fall into this category and these overpriced units might be a necessary evil for them, but then how much longer is the industry going to support Macs with PCI cards when no products shipping from Apple use them any longer? This market will probably dry up.
The other category would be people that want a better GPU for something else and the only other thing I can think of that really "needs" more GPU power is gaming and as I said, that is an area where Apple really lacks ANY hardware for the task so it is an area of interest to many Mac users (who believe it or not do play games once in awhile and unless they are hardcore gamers, they probably don't want to buy a separate PC just for gaming). Even if these chassis do work for a better GPU, the total cost is very prohibitive (you could afford to build that 2nd computer just for gaming for the same price or possibly less) and more than likely, the cards would just work in Windows anyway (so again, a dedicated computer seems the better option). Thus, I simply lamented the fact that Apple won't offer us something with a better GPU as an option even. How that is "hilarious" is just utterly beyond me. I like to play games, but I'm no hardcore gamer. I'm playing games that are a 2-4 years old right now, largely out of necessity since this machine can't handle today's games that use much 3D. I can't even play Dragon Age Origins from four years ago at the full resolution of my mere 22" display (1650x1050). Yes, it's a crappy Transgaming conversion, but 4 years is a LONG time in the computer world and that shows you how far behind the Mac Mini is in that area when in every other area it's pretty much up-to-date (e.g. my 2012 Mac Mini Quad-i7 is only 10% slower than the brand new base-level 2014 Mac Pro and the Mini hasn't even been updated to Haswell). So why have a GPU that belongs on a 2008 mobile platform (i.e. my 2008 MBP is probably on-par with the HD4000). This is supposed to be a desktop. Yet the iMacs are all mobile sets as well. Maybe Apple should consider function over form for once in their lives.
No, I don't game all the time. But it is the one area Macs lack in so why shouldn't Apple do something about it? They could fix the issue by making a Mini that costs $400-500 more and has a really good GPU in it (the form factor isn't any big deal on that machine; they've wedged themselves into a corner with these ultra-flat iMacs, but who gives a crap what the Mini looks like? It's most likely going to be hiding behind the monitor or on a shelf anyway. Making it 6 inches longer to accommodate a good GPU and a second cooling fan wouldn't hurt anyone or anything and if people didn't want the option, they wouldn't have to order it.
What exactly is this supposed to show?
At this point FCP X is literally the only application that supports x2 GPUs ...
So good luck with putting in x3 or x4 GPUs and it being any use.
John Toolbox
macrumors newbie
Does anyone actually have one of these units in their possession yet?
I ordered an Echo Express SE-II on Dec 28 of last year. It's obvious that the long lead time was due to Sonnet changing these over to the thunderbolt 2 version, but with everything on the internet showing that these started shipping on Jan 16th, I was expecting to see a more firm delivery estimate by now. My order from B&H photo still shows it as "on order" but they have no other info on when it's going to actually ship.... They just sent me another "we have no clue when you'll actually get this thing" type letter.
I ordered an Echo Express SE-II on Dec 28 of last year. It's obvious that the long lead time was due to Sonnet changing these over to the thunderbolt 2 version, but with everything on the internet showing that these started shipping on Jan 16th, I was expecting to see a more firm delivery estimate by now. My order from B&H photo still shows it as "on order" but they have no other info on when it's going to actually ship.... They just sent me another "we have no clue when you'll actually get this thing" type letter.
analog guy
macrumors 6502
yes, i have an echo express iii-d.
b&h never has sonnet stock -- they take your order then place an order for it.
i ordered mine on jan 3rd from macmall, who actually keep some stock.
early in the year sonnet had low/no stock and was replenishing. the TB2 cards may not have been the issue. they just became available.
your beef is with B&H; units were available immediately from macmall or with 5-10 day lead from sonnet (what they confirmed for me on the phone in early january).
it's a good device....when you get it.
In relation to the Mini's weak GPU: I find it odd that the focus with the nMP is very much on the GPUs (i.e. it's being stressed that they should (hehe, uh-huh) be able to assist greatly with computing), while with pretty much all the other Macs (excluding e.g. the better iMacs) the GPUs are rather weak. It seems a bit contradictory to me, as though there's not a clear overall strategy in place.
MagnusVonMagnum
macrumors 603
The new Mac Pro's GPUs are good for Pro work. Whether they could play a modern 3D game well or not is another question. And now that there is no newer expandable Mac to even make a good gaming card for, you soon won't be able to build a Hackintosh with a good gaming GPU either since there simply won't be a driver for it. Ones made for the old Mac Pro will be the end of the line for anything remotely newer gaming-capable.
Apple could easily rectify this with a slightly larger (longer or wider with a 2nd fan) Mini with a mid-to-high level single GPU. It wouldn't be the highest-end thing out there (no SLI-like stuff and what not), but it would be a good solid mid-range gamer. No no no. That might cannibalize sales for the iMac which can't handle a high-end gaming card no matter what because it would overheat the entire thing. I suppose you could put the gaming card in the base, but then you'd need high-speed lines running down there and it would have a large base. The only other way to go would be a new gaming setup based on the new Mac Pro chassis, but with a different video card(s). Actually, it would be perfect for a high-end gaming setup since it already has two video slots. They'd just have to enable a SLI-like function. The problem is Apple has almost zero interest in gaming beyond making extra money with iOS devices. I have no need for a good GPU without gaming, though.
John Toolbox
macrumors newbie
I don't think the fault is entirely with B&H. I ordered 2 other Sonnet products from them at the exact same time, and the items were only "on order" for a few days, and then promptly shipped to me. Sonnet clearly has a big backlog of orders for the Echo Express SE-II.
LordVic
Cancelled
that's correct. intel has actively prevented any official development of external GPU devices over thunderbolt.
----------
while this is true, Many enthousiasts have managed to get external GPU's working over Thunderbolt using round about methods.
They all saw dramatic performance increases over Intel's integrated HD series graphics cards.
By no means are you going to hit the same performance as if it were plugged in on a proper bus, but so far, it is still a legitimate performance improvement.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...harges-macbook-air-graphics-performance-by-7x
miguel cortez
macrumors member
Your snippy clueless response to the question...
Does this mean I can add more GPU's to the new Mac Pro??? Can FCPX 10.1 handle 4 GPU's???
"Doubt it. Getting support for dual GPUs is going to be hard enough."
Clueless? Hardly.
An application must be specifically written to take advantage of multi-GPU setups. As as the time of the post (4+ months back...), FCP 10.1 was the only program that could take advantage of the dual GPUs. Hence the conclusion -- adding more GPUs will likely not do anything, as not even 2 are supported.
Additionally, the FCP link doesn't answer either of the OP's questions. It neither tells whether you can install (or expect to use) additional GPUs, nor whether FCP will take advantage of additional GPUs, even if they can be installed and linked properly.