Sonoma is making me hate Apple

[donblanco]

My two main issues, on my MBP M1:
- HDMI audio breaks after a few times of disconneting/reconnecting monitors, only fix is a reboot
- Game mode is worse than not, with lags and crackling audio (mostrly depends on the game)
And I'm glad I read the Java issues with 14.4 before updating.

Running CS2 in Crossover required wired headphones because of that crackling audio issue.

Also Java supposedly fixed in 14.4.1

 

[donblanco]

Hybrid solution in progress. Downgrading Mac Mini to 11, MacBook Air to 12. First time I have ever done this!

MB Air is running fine on Ventura 13 (don't remember why I decided to not go to 12)

Had to download 11 (Big Sur) on my MacBook Air because evidently my Mac Mini M1 shipped with 12 and won't allow an older download. It is also possible it won't allow Big Sur at all, but my research says it is *technically* possible because Big Sur does have M1 support. The Mac Mini was from Amazon so may have been refurbed at some point? Unsure...

 

[donblanco]

Had to download 11 (Big Sur) on my MacBook Air because evidently my Mac Mini M1 shipped with 12 and won't allow an older download.

Update: I found a Big Sur installer already on my machine, evidently done yesterday or overnight. Now creating bootable installer. Fingers crossed.

 

[steve123]

Update: I found a Big Sur installer already on my machine, evidently done yesterday or overnight. Now creating bootable installer. Fingers crossed.

Whoa ... careful there. You are going to introduce some enormous uncertainties. I had serious iCloud problems with a Big Sur to Monterey update. Not only that, but I wonder if this is even advisable because of all the changes to iCloud over the years since Big Sur. Be very careful. I advise against this.

 

[steve123]

not everyone is having the problems you're experiencing. so it's worth posting here, asking for help, getting perspective. also might be worth calling apple. and which mac is this?

I think everyone is having problems. The issue is how many of us encounter and notice the problems. Apple seems generally less focused on quality control and stability.

Not disputing you having issues but I had 2 older SanDisk USB-A I just tried and both mount for me on a M2 MBP. One's a Cruzer Edge and the other a Cruzer Blade formatted as Ext Journaled and FAT32, quite old, I know. I generally nowadays use Samsung thumb drives, sata and NVMe's SSD's.

There are widespread reports of problems with externally connected drives and Sonoma, here on Macrumors and elsewhere. Just attaching a disk and verifying it mounted would not reveal the issue(s).

Ecosystem switches are not to be taken lightly. I supported 98% Windows in my IT career and have used Macs and other Apple devices since the early 2000's. Lots of other linux/chromebook experimentation in between. I just really thought I had settled on Mac and am 'unsettled' that it might not be true any longer...

I was a switcher in 2006 and enjoyed many years of "it just works". For the past several years now I share a similar sense of being "unsettled" and I no longer enjoy a sense of "it just works".

Just did the oclp update and updated to 14.4.1 without any issues and it just works. ... I got this mid 2010 MacBook pro, did the oclp patch and installed sonoma on it and guess what..... the MacBook pro running unsupported sonoma JUST WORKS.

I am very appreciative of all the work the OCLP team puts into making these older macs continue to work with new versions of macOS. But, it would be a inaccurate to suggest "it just works". OCLP clearly documents there is a lot that does not. Nevertheless, being able to install Sonoma on a computer from 2010 and experience many of the features and security improvements is a huge benefit. But it does come with some risk and some extra work.

 

[kagharaht]

I finally experienced that sudden eject of USB External SSD drive a couple of days ago. I posted it and looked at the forums and seems to happen quite a bit with Sonoma. I'm on iMac M3, 24GB/2TB, 8/10, 4Port. New setup, no Migration from older iMac.

 

[fisherking]

I think everyone is having problems. The issue is how many of us encounter and notice the problems. Apple seems generally less focused on quality control and stability.

so you're saying that we're all having specific problems that we're not noticing? hmmmm. how does that work, exactly?

 

[Alpha Centauri]

There are widespread reports of problems with externally connected drives and Sonoma, here on Macrumors and elsewhere. Just attaching a disk and verifying it mounted would not reveal the issue(s).

The OP stated those SanDisk drives being "completely inoperable" and this would suggest to me also not mounting. But it doesn't matter, I happen to have three of them, tried them out (yes, incl. accessing data) and posted my findings.

 

[svenmany]

I think everyone is having problems. The issue is how many of us encounter and notice the problems. Apple seems generally less focused on quality control and stability.

I somewhat agree with this, but it seems overstated. I don't think everyone encounters problems; if a certain functionality is never exercised by a user and that functionality has a bug, then the user won't experience that bug.

However, I do think many people encounter bugs and don't notice them. I did participate in a thread where people were saying that the new System Preferences didn't have bugs. I pointed out one and the response was like "well, that's not a serious bug". People don't register some bugs if their standards are low. If you point out a bug to such people, they might think you're being too picky. That's certainly been my experience.

The only way I can stay happy using Apple software is to lower my expectations. Luckily, most of the bugs I encounter have workarounds.

 

[chevyboy60013]

I am very appreciative of all the work the OCLP team puts into making these older macs continue to work with new versions of macOS. But, it would be a inaccurate to suggest "it just works". OCLP clearly documents there is a lot that does not. Nevertheless, being able to install Sonoma on a computer from 2010 and experience many of the features and security improvements is a huge benefit. But it does come with some risk and some extra work.

Compared to my newer Dell laptop that runs windows 11 pro natively, my mid 2010 MacBook Pro running Sonoma thanks to the OCLP crew works much better and much easier to use, and I use it as my daily driver laptop now for work and pleasure.

 

[donblanco]

Whoa ... careful there. You are going to introduce some enormous uncertainties. I had serious iCloud problems with a Big Sur to Monterey update. Not only that, but I wonder if this is even advisable because of all the changes to iCloud over the years since Big Sur. Be very careful. I advise against this.

Rolled MB Air back to Ventura, rolled desktop to Big Sur. signed in to iCloud no problem. Downloaded some folders, no problems. FYI, I use iCloud minimally. Most data and photos are on Google Cloud.

Bluetooth controller worked on Big Sur! Game did not *sob* - on MB Air game + controller worked fine under Ventura. Now prepping to upgrade desktop to Ventura.

The OP stated those SanDisk drives being "completely inoperable" and this would suggest to me also not mounting. But it doesn't matter, I happen to have three of them, tried them out (yes, incl. accessing data) and posted my findings.

Even though it was mounted, every time I attempted to write to it there was a disconnect and reconnect before the writing could finish. Didn't seem to matter the size of the file being written. It was *in effect* inoperable, even though it was mounted and readable.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Even though it was mounted, every time I attempted to write to it there was a disconnect and reconnect before the writing could finish. Didn't seem to matter the size of the file being written. It was *in effect* inoperable, even though it was mounted and readable.

Right, thanks for expanding further of what exactly the issue was.

 

[donblanco]

follow-up: The bluetooth issue remains, on Big Sur and also Ventura. It connects but during game play it either:

• glitches and I am stuck running or firing my jetpack and the controller is completely unresponsive, or;
• crashes the game

So I am back to playing with it tethered and that will have to do.

In addition, while the last set of HP drivers from Apple do not work on 12 or newer, they also do not include my printer model as it is newer. Apple and HP both just say "use AirPrint" as the solution, which is cool and all but does not help when your printer doesn't have bluetooth or WiFi. So I'm back to using a semi-compatible driver from a similar printer model. It does print, haven't tested scanning yet.

In other words, all of this, while an interesting technical exercise, was for nothing. I gained experience in downgrading which I had not done before, but I also gained further frustration with Apple.

Conclusion: If you want to play games, especially with a controller, and if you want to use an HP printer, avoid Apple. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Alameda]

I think you’re a victim of what I call, “Apple should release OS updates every two years instead of every year, so that third party developers have a chance to stay up to date.”

The Mac OS is useless to nearly every user without third party software.

 

[donblanco]

I think you’re a victim of what I call, “Apple should release OS updates every two years instead of every year, so that third party developers have a chance to stay up to date.”

The Mac OS is useless to nearly every user without third party software.

This doesn't explain the whole issue with HP printers tho - sure, they are mostly used in Enterprise environments, but it's not like there are *NO* HP home users. So you end up with brand new HP printer and latest MacOS software and no compatible drivers at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Alameda]

This doesn't explain the whole issue with HP printers tho - sure, they are mostly used in Enterprise environments, but it's not like there are *NO* HP home users. So you end up with brand new HP printer and latest MacOS software and no compatible drivers at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Over the years, I’ve owned printers by HP, Brother, Epson, and Canon. My networked Canon laser printer is the only one with solid Mac software. Well… the scanner software driver isn’t great, but it can scan to a USB stick.

 

[StoneJack]

Hybrid solution in progress. Downgrading Mac Mini to 11, MacBook Air to 12. First time I have ever done this!

I did few times. Specifically, my desktop is on Ventura and that OS is best. Notebook is on Sonoma but there is nothing compelling in Sonoma to be honest.

 

[StoneJack]

This doesn't explain the whole issue with HP printers tho - sure, they are mostly used in Enterprise environments, but it's not like there are *NO* HP home users. So you end up with brand new HP printer and latest MacOS software and no compatible drivers at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

there are some open source drivers I guess. Printer companies really bad at support.

 

[AlumaMac]

follow-up: The bluetooth issue remains, on Big Sur and also Ventura. It connects but during game play it either:

• glitches and I am stuck running or firing my jetpack and the controller is completely unresponsive, or;
• crashes the game

I believe some people have had better Bluetooth performance by using a USB Bluetooth dongle.

 

[fisherking]

I believe some people have had better Bluetooth performance by using a USB Bluetooth dongle.

all my bluetooth devices work, & have worked, for some time... out of the box (on 2 M2 airs, and an M2 pro mini)...

 

[AlumaMac]

all my bluetooth devices work, & have worked, for some time... out of the box (on 2 M2 airs, and an M2 pro mini)...

Well I guess we can consider the Bluetooth issue solved since you don’t have any problems.

 

[T0mmyR0t]

@donblanco @steve123 It sounds like we've been on similar journeys. I switched to Apple in early 2000s and enjoyed years of 'It Just Works'. I even had an Apple logo sticker in the back screen of my car for years. It was computing nirvana.

Fast forward to recent times. For my money, Apple's approach to software development seemed to shift after Mojave. And I don't just mean on macOS either, but sticking with macOS for now, I had peripherals that worked beautifully on Mojave, but since Monterey, they're patchy. This generally includes I/O (disks, e-ink readers not being recognised), external displays, but if we include your examples of printers, we can see unreliability spanning different categories of peripherals. After plugging in an external display, after a while Mission Control stops working. I do have a Sonoma boot volume only because I installed Asahi Linux and it required Sonoma to install it. (More on Asahi later.) IMO Sonoma marks another run on the ladder downward.

I think this is wider than macOS though. This week I went from iOS 16.7x to iOS 17.4.1. I noticed an improvement immediately. Things that didn't work on iOS 16.7x worked much better. Notable examples: Siri, Shortcuts.

I suspect what's happening across the OSes is that regardless of the state of the present major release, the first few sub-releases deal with the immediate fires. By the time x.5 comes around, Apple has begun working on the next major release increment. At that stage it effectively abandons the present and previous releases. Any improvements will be rolled into future releases, not the fed back into the present or previous release streams. Not testing those fixes on past releases simplifies development ops. Not only that, it shepherds the herd forwards. I find this objectionable (nay, contemptible) because I think this is a dirty secret that Apple don't admit. (I'm not referring to security releases. Critical security patches are released for the current and penultimate release.)

The inevitability of software means that every update carries bugs, so each update means you trade existing bugs for new bugs. And if the release cycle only allows a short window for fixes before development moves to the next big release, that backlog of bugs is never addressed. I do think macOS is suffering from this.

Craig Federighi (Head of Software) needs to grip this. Or someone needs to show him the door.

I mentioned Asahi Linux earlier. It's already impressive in Beta and when it officially rolls-out, I think I may well call time on macOS. Still, all good things come to an end.

 

[donblanco]

I mentioned Asahi Linux earlier. It's already impressive in Beta and when it officially rolls-out, I think I may well call time on macOS.

I had not heard of Asahi Linux - looks interesting!

 

[fisherking]

Well I guess we can consider the Bluetooth issue solved since you don’t have any problems.

or, perhaps the more mature thing is to acknowledge that some people have bluetooth issues, and that they can and should get help with those issues. and that an issue that isn't everyone's... isn't everyone's... 🤔

 

[Video.drome]

About the bluetooth issues.
Consider getting an usb dongle.
They cost like $10 and might fix your problem.
Waiting for apple to fix or acknowledge their faults is futile.