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Sony Preparing New Handheld Devices to Take On Apple
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Actually the Xbox has landed Microsoft over $1 billion in debt and PS3 sales are currently up against the 360.
http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?con...All&cons3=X360®3=All&start=40139&end=40237
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1942909720070720
Odd, it doesn't sounds like 1 billion in debt. Sounds like they were able to cover that charge...
That does not reflect the incredible losses that the PS3 has inflicted on Sony.
While the 360 is basically sold at cost. The PS3 has always sold at about $100 below the manufacturing cost.
Sony hoped to recoup that cost through licensing revenues on game sales. But it takes a lot of sales to recoup that $100.
The more expensive cost-of-development of PS3 games has harmed the number of titles, and compelled Sony to subsidise some developers.
Microsoft are not in particularly good shape with the 360. But Sony are in a far worse state. The PS3 lost them $4.6B last year.
C.
Exept the Xbox's debt came from faulty machines, instead of being sold at a loss. Thats the difference.
Im having trouble finding consistent data.
Each website (For 2009 sales) are showing off compeltely different figures, rounding of figures, reasons blah blah blah.
The most believable thing I saw was the article about iSuppli saying the Sony makes a loss of 6c to $1 with the Slims. The rest of the articles had no sources or they were so schizofrenic its not funny.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/05/playstation-3-still-a-loss-leader-six-cents-for-every-dollar/
Neither venture has proven wise. Only Nintendo approached this gen with a real sense of business practicality. MS and Sony thought it best to see who could buy the throne. And that throne is coming at a heavy price indeed.
Though both have been money-losing consoles thus far, Sony seems to have a brighter future with more hardware features at the same price point (and the benefit of driving Blu-ray sales, from which they profit). And I'd much rather be in Sony's shoes than to be dealing with the Xbox failure nightmare (though Xbox fans just keep lapping it up and coming back for more).
As soon as (if ever) these things become truly profitable (i.e. factoring in losses to date), it will be time to start the bleeding all over again with another next-gen console.
What a bizarre business to be in.
I was wrong.
The *cumulative* losses on PS3 are $4.6B
Year by year...
FY 2007: -$1,970,923,859
FY 2008: -$1,079,994,103
FY 2009: -$577,207,240
FY 10Q1: -$413,541,667
FY 10Q2: -$653,333,333
The 360 has just about bumped along at break-even. Some years making a profit, some years making a loss.
Sales of PS3 consoles are much healthier now. But the profits come from sales of games (Not consoles or BluRay disks)
C.
Im just saking - do you ahve any source for those figures. How do you know those are only ps3 figures.
No way MS is at break-even with their Xbox experiment (debacle). They're still billions in the hole. Their home entertainment division has been a fiasco. I'm surprised the shareholders haven't rioted by now.
The original Xbox lost about $4B
The 360 has been about break even. Even with the RRoD issue.
MS sell the hardware at about break even. But this is pushed up with profits from stuff like the WiFi adaptor. (A $10 device which sells for $90) And the subscription fees from XBox live.
With each game sold, MS make a lot of licence money. And the attach rate of the 360 is much better than the PS3.
http://gamer.blorge.com/2008/04/27/xbox-360-leads-software-attach-rate-even-the-wii-beats-ps3/
A lot of people simply own PS3 as BluRay players - which mean they don't generate games revenue.
http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/article/xbox-360-xbox-division-profit-nearly-doubles-34/
C.
I find that highly unlikely, despite what MS may claim. Here you have a console that was already selling at a loss, add one of the most spectacular failure rates in consumer electronics history for the first couple of years of its life = catastrophe.
And now you have a finally-reliable console selling for the same price as its primary competitor yet doesn't offer Blu-ray, Bluetooth, built-in wifi, free online gaming - I wonder how Microsoft intends to stay in the race. Looking at the two consoles side by side on the store shelf with the same price tag seems like a no-brainer choice for the PS3, particularly now that Sony has stepped it up in the game library department.
It has been in the past because of the PS3's weaker game library. That has changed though - and I expect to see the attach rate for games start to equalize between the platforms.
Yet Sony generates games and movie revenue.
I guess MS can hope that people will keep buying overpriced wireless adapters and online gaming subscriptions. Because I think the PS3 is coming on strong now and will be knocking MS into 3rd place in the not-too-distant future.
Yet Sony generates games and movie revenue.
Hi Laguna,
I am not getting into a fan argument.
The business data is published for all to see.
The numbers show 360 has not been a big success for Microsoft. But the PS3 has very nearly killed Sony. Losing more money than Microsoft lost on the first Xbox.
The biggest single problem is the PS3 is sold at a loss. So the more units they sell, the more money is lost.
That strategy worked for the PS2 - but has been spectacularly unsuccessful for the PS3. Because it relies on users buying videogames (not movies) to repay Sony. PS3 owners have bought very few games.
Why is that?
As developers will tell you. They PS3 is a challenging machine to create games for. Although the hardware is powerful. Getting that power to deliver content on screen costs a lot of manpower. So many of the really significant PS3 titles have actually been developed or sponsored by Sony at their cost. Titles like Killzone 2 cost many times more than they made back in sales.
As an example: Polyphony have struggled to deliver Gran Turismo. This is the main driving franchise for the platform, and three years in - where is the product?
I am not saying you should be dis-satisfield with the PS3 as a product. Or that the XBox is better. You should be happy. As a consumer, its great value for money. After all, how many products are subsidised by the manufacturer?
All I am saying is that as a business decision, it has been (to date) a commercial disaster. The numbers don't lie.
C.
But how far is Sony in this "debt"? The 360 is a powerful machine thats really cheap so the 1billion debt is understandable. Sony keeps discounting the PS3 so they will most likely be at a relatively similar level of debt.
The 360 is like the iPod: it has reached market saturation. Everyone who wants one has one (heck, I even had 2...). There is a group of people out there that will always be loyal to the Playstation brand so they will never switch. They just waited for the price to be as low as possible. Thats why the PS3 is now selling; it will never catch the Xbox360 tho.
I heard a really good quote in my tutorial today: "Statistics without analysis are nothing." It always pays to think about them before posting.
But a stastical inference was not needed for the limited scope of the argument. Yes statistics need to be fully analysed but in most debates its extra noise depending on the argument. You also forget the fact that the PS3 is sold at a loss AND does not gain as much revenue as the 360 does from other areas. Sony is in oodles of debt from selling at a loss, Microsoft is in debt from having to repair all those consoles. They're not in debt for the same reasons, Sony's increase in sales mean more upfront cost to them.
The ipod also hasnt reached market saturation if sales keep on increasing.
I agree completely. The PS3 and the Xbox have both been commercial disasters. Competing in this market makes about as much sense as Dell and HP slugging it out for market share by selling $400 PCs with razor-thin profit margins that are eaten up with the first tech support telephone call. Meaning no sense at all.
Xbox 360: the console so nice you had to get a new one twice.
Never say never. The edge clearly goes to Sony at this point - and they aren't that far behind.
(For the record I very much dislike Sony and loathe Microsoft - though I do own a PS3.)
Because you couldn't bring yourself to by an XBox360 because it made by Microsoft?
I sorry but I had to say this, all in good jester though.
Im not buying another Microsoft console because both times theyve exploded on me.
My original Xbox caught fire! My two 360s RRoDed. I dont blame anybody whos weary about buying Microsoft consoles.
I only bought an Xbox 360 cuz I waned to play Mass Effect - since it got ported for PC I dont beleive any story or rumour about Xbox exclusitivity.
My sister and I's PS2 is still going strong and my PS3 still works like I first got it.
This might make Apple look very good. I've been a developer (not lately) for Sony and not only are their NDAs brutal, but their software and development environments are too awful for words. On top of that, the build quality of most of Sony's consumer products is abysmal and the customer service is MUCH worse than Apple's.
Did you catch their big breakthrough Rolly product a while back? They are so out of touch I'd swear their designers and developers were raised on another Earth-like planet by benign lizards. Smart engineers with no clue about design or software.
[ If you haven't seen it, the "Rolly" is a great example of good engineering gone badly awry in terms of pricing, utility and common sense. ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHrZw24KMds&feature=fvw
Did you catch their big breakthrough Rolly product a while back? They are so out of touch I'd swear their designers and developers were raised on another Earth-like planet by benign lizards. Smart engineers with no clue about design or software.
[ If you haven't seen it, the "Rolly" is a great example of good engineering gone badly awry in terms of pricing, utility and common sense. ]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHrZw24KMds&feature=fvw