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Originally posted by nazariteguitar
Just thought I should correct you on a few points😉

the PSP will NOT have a phone

Say's who?
"One of the key features of the PSP is 802.11b wireless networking for multi-player gaming. However, speaking at a news conference yesterday, Kutaragi said Sony will at some point add phone facilities,"

"Kutaragi also said that PSP will not be a single device, but a range of machines targeting different users."
 
PSP= A media circus.

Originally posted by trose
I didn't read the whole thread, so it may have already been mentioned.

Sony is not only going up against Apple, the powerhouse in the portable audio player arena, but also against Nintendo, the powerhouse in the portable gaming arena.

Nintendo dominates portable gaming even more than Apple does portable audio(no, I don't count CD's as porta--skip--skip--skip--ble).

The only thing Sony has going for them is the "cool" factor. It won them the Console wars (atleast these last couple generations).. it could do it again.

I have a feeling though, that Nintendo will not just sit still while their biggest and most succesfull franchise is attacked, likewise for Apple and their huge dominance with the iPod.

I say this thing has a 25% chance at best of overthrowing the iPod, and 15% on the Gameboy.

Nintendo just updated their GameBoy (GameBoy Advanced SP), so I'm not too sure how soon they'll be willing to release a brand new model/update.

However, Nintendo does make the majority of their profits from the GBAdvanced, and even more from the licensing fees they collect for every game made for the GBA. They won't sit still while sony tries to unseat them.

Nor will Apple. I just don't see Apple trying to make the iPod in to some sort of media circus, as the PSP seems to be.
 
BIG question. AAC support is all well and fine. Is it possible to support DRMed AAC which iTunes uses. holy crap this could be big. 😱
 
Originally posted by Lanbrown
Say's who?
"One of the key features of the PSP is 802.11b wireless networking for multi-player gaming. However, speaking at a news conference yesterday, Kutaragi said Sony will at some point add phone facilities,"

"Kutaragi also said that PSP will not be a single device, but a range of machines targeting different users."

They could be talking VoIP.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
BIG question. AAC support is all well and fine. Is it possible to support DRMed AAC which iTunes uses. holy crap this could be big. 😱

Whoa.

Apple+Pepsi+AOL+sony=

One big monop...er, product. 😱
 
Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by billyboy
Apple have got the best bar none high end digital music player. If you like, it is the music player equivalent of their G5 dual processor computer. In order to maintain the integrity of iPod as the best, and also in an attempt to draw the 70% "ipod mimic" market towards Apple, why not bring out a $99 player ie the music player equivalent of the entry level eMac.

Somewhere down the iPod development line Apple took a right turn, went the expensive mini hard drive route. For a low end model, they could maintain basic iTMS compatability but use a smaller, cheaper storage method. When people get hooked on the experience on a mini $99 scale, they will upgrade to the full tooty as sure as night follows day.

Man, this has been said 1000 times. Apple's profits come from the sale of hardware. It's how they can afford to sink tons of money into software/harware R&D. The cost of a 5GB dirve is $100. Why create a product that will lose them money. So they gain market share, so what. It's not like they make tons of money on the iTMS.

Here's some simple math.

7,000,000 songs sold (for the sake of argument)
$1 per song =
$7,000,000 revenue

67% to the record labels (according to Jobs himself)

leaving about $2,300,000 revenue for Apple.

Apple's total revenue last quarter = $1.7 billion

So it's clear that iTMS is a drop in the bucket for their revenue. Apple earns it's money selling hardware like computers and the iPod. Dropping prices so low that they don't earn money will hurt them in the long run becuase selling one iPod at a loss does not in any way guarantee them future revenues. Sure they convert one buyer, but that person may be happy with their iPod for years, just like most people are. How many repeat iPod owners do you know? I'm sure there are plenty here on this forum but for the most part, my guess is that most iPod owners have bought only one. All you have to do is look at the problem cell phone companies are having getting owners to purchase new phones and that's a heavily subsidized industry to boot. Apple has to ensure that it earns a buck and we reap the benefits of their continued innovation.

edit: fuzzy math
 
Originally posted by nazariteguitar
Just thought I should correct you on a few points😉

the PSP will NOT have a phone
N-gage is made be Nokia not Sega, although Sega is developing games for it.

It's an honest mistake, I just want to make sure wrong info isn't passed on.

THANK YOU.. also i noticed some people seem to think this PSP is geared for playing music. as stated before, the $60 player is the competition for the iPod, the PSP, is in an entirely different market. please dont confuse that anymore. According to the specs, the PSP wont have a hard drive. anything with out a hard drive should be considered backwards developed at this point. if you want a crappy mp3 player that uses some compact flash card or whatever, then go to target, they have a bunch sitting next to the iPod. they look pitiful.
 
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
They could be talking VoIP.

They are also in the phone business with Ericsson, Sony-Ericsson. How many people have VoIP at home? A game platform is not a business phone either. I cannot see VoIP as the phone functionality.
 
Re: also

Originally posted by blueflame
to the average non mac person, i think price does matter alot. apple would do very well for even a 1 gig ipod at less than 100 dollars like 99.99

I think someone else (I unfortunately can't remember who) made a great point on another forum. While a 1 gig iPod might be valued by the market at $99, the cost of production wouldn't be anywhere near $99. A 10 GB hard drive costs about as much to have as a 5 GB or even a 250 MB anymore.

All right, then let's switch to flash media. You'd get pretty cheap storage, unless you wanted to get a gigabyte of storage, at which point you're paying...more than $100. And that's for one gigabyte.

http://www.vtops.com/store/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=24

Ever since the beginning, the purpose of the iPod has been to play your entire music collection, or at least as much of it as you want with you at any given time. If you have the capacity of flash media, what you end up with is an MP3 player that's more expensive than a CD player for hardly any more capacity. And MP3-CD players will be a better value.

If Apple could release a $100 iPod, wouldn't they? The answer is yes. The problem is, it's not possible yet.

Originally posted by Lanbrown
They are also in the phone business with Ericsson, Sony-Ericsson. How many people have VoIP at home? A game platform is not a business phone either. I cannot see VoIP as the phone functionality.

VoIP interconnects with the legacy phone network.
 
Read the article.....it say the PSP will be the WALKMAN of the future.
Originally posted by JoE950
THANK YOU.. also i noticed some people seem to think this PSP is geared for playing music. as stated before, the $60 player is the competition for the iPod, the PSP, is in an entirely different market. please dont confuse that anymore. According to the specs, the PSP wont have a hard drive. anything with out a hard drive should be considered backwards developed at this point. if you want a crappy mp3 player that uses some compact flash card or whatever, then go to target, they have a bunch sitting next to the iPod. they look pitiful.

No way will it be doing VoIP
 
Re: Re: also

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
VoIP interconnects with the legacy phone network.

I know how VoIP works, I have implemented in a fortune 10 company. The PSP is a game device, not a business phone. The majority of VoIP products are in the business workplace and there are even fewer wireless VoIP installations. So since this device is for the consumer market, where would they be using VoIP? At home? Well, they would have to buy additional equipment. Given the number of open access points that you can get Internet access off of, imagine someone that installed wireless VoIP at home and didn't know how to secure it. Can you say free calls?

If the PSP happened to be a business phone, then wireless VoIP would make sense, but not a consumer phone, at least not at this stage.
 
Re: Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by greenstork
Here's some simple math.

7,000,000 songs sold (for the sake of argument)
$1 per song =
$70,000,000 revenue

How does 7 million X $1 = $70 million?
Is this quantum mathematics?

Anyway, here are some interesting things to consider aside from 'fuzzy math':
Sony Music is up for sale. They want out of the industry, and were almost bought by Vivendi/Universal until Vivendi bought Dreamworks instead last week. This would seem to indicate that the battle over what's more important, hardware sales or piracy, has been decided.

And consider this in terms of Apple's market share for MP3 players: It doesn't matter who competes. iPod is the now product associated with portable MP3 players as much as "Walkman" became a generic term for portable cassette players, or as Coke became synonymous with cola softdrinks. Apple did what is the most important rule of marketing, which was to be first with a completely new type of product. Hertz was the first company to do what it does. Other companies might do it better or cheaper, but Hertz still has the largest market share to this day. This rule seems to apply to almost any industry. Xerox is another example. When was the last time you asked for a 'mimeograph' or a 'Toshiba' of something?

Sony can however make a good deal of money by being number 2, because nobody has clearly established themself in this poistion yet. But if they only use their proprietary music format and eliminate the ability to play MP3 or AAC, they are going to lose their ass faster than you can say "Betamax".

It's a quarter past too late for anybody to unseat Apple as the de facto king of MP3 players. Unless Steve Jobs does anything as stupid as John Sculley did during Mac vs. DOS says, or unless somebody comes up with something so radically different and more appealing, I wouldn't lose sleep any sleep over this one. While companies like Sony continue to lay people off and sell off their assets, Apple hasn't had a single lay off and has actually increased their R&D spending. It has apparently paid off, as evidenced by all the behemoths who are trying to play catch-up now.
 
Originally posted by Lanbrown
They are also in the phone business with Ericsson, Sony-Ericsson. How many people have VoIP at home? A game platform is not a business phone either. I cannot see VoIP as the phone functionality.

Yes but with a WIFI enabled device its possible and potentially free.
 
Wouldnt this require a user to have some type of broadband account.
Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Yes but with a WIFI enabled device its possible and potentially free.

I just dont see the market.
 
Originally posted by Sabenth
Dont know if anyone has posted pics links yet so here ya go PSP PHOTOS LOOKS LIKE A CIGAR HOLDER IF YOU ASK ME

Actually, it looks like a playstation competitor to Gameboy. I think saying this is an iPod competitor is laughable at best. I don't see P Diddy getting jiggy with that gameboy keychain thing dangling from his pants' belt loop.

This is not an mp3/iPod killer, this is a gameboy killer. But oh wait, does it even play video games? hahaha. Come on, video on a keychain? Yea, while I'm at the mall restroom taking a crap maybe.
 
Re: VoIP

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Sony is a Japanese company.

The Japanese have consumer VoIP.

So yes, I can see this using VoIP. Maybe only in Japan, but Japan is a big market.

I say GSM/WCDMA support. Greater appeal and could offer support for wireless game play with remote users without having to be near an access point. The use of it as a phone while they are home would be rather limiting.

Sony would rather have people use PS2 and the upcoming PS3 at home and have the PSP when they are out.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by leet1
They weren't the first to come out with a hard drive mp3 player if thats what you mean, think this has already been said in this thread.

But the important thing is that they were the first to come out with the product that everybody bought. maybe Hertz wasn't the first to rent cars, but they were the first to be succesful at it. Sony came out with Mini Disc first, but nobody cared, and the media was not widely adopted, so it was inconsequential. Burton didn't invent the snowboard, but they were the first to popularize it and are still the largest single manufacturing snowboard brand.


And on another note:
If this hasn't been clarified, I just read the info on the PSP, and it is not the same as the $60 device that will play songs. I'm not sure from some posts if that's understood. Also, it appears that the PSP has a removable media drive that can hold 1.8 GB. Perhaps it's a mini DVD? Same as a Mini Disc but with muti layering and blue laser bandwidth?
 
Re: Re: Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by jjblair
How does 7 million X $1 = $70 million?
Is this quantum mathematics?


LMAO, my bad, I got so excited about my rant too. For some reason I was thinking album in my head.

Well this further proves my point that iTMS provides less than 1% of Apple revenue.
 
There will also be more then one PSP available too. I say the player will be with no media; and in small print it will say batteries and memory stick cold separately.
 
Originally posted by tentimestwenty
That may or may not be the case but the reality remains, a $100 iPod with any functionality, even solid state memory would clean up the market. I'd buy one even if it had only 1GB of memory. I just want a measly 4 or 5 albums to take with me and I think most everyone else that hasn't bought an iPod is a similar market.

Exactly. I don't need all the space, I need a cheaper iPod for what I would like to take with me from the CD collection. $100 is a magical price point for such devices.
 
Re: Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by greenstork
Man, this has been said 1000 times. Apple's profits come from the sale of hardware. It's how they can afford to sink tons of money into software/harware R&D. The cost of a 5GB dirve is $100. Why create a product that will lose them money. So they gain market share, so what.

Apple has to ensure that it earns a buck and we reap the benefits of their continued innovation.

edit: fuzzy math

Slow down matey. Great quote and all to knock me down in flames 🙂 , but I expressly made a point about product differentiation. I understand the 5GB hard drive alone costs about $100, so of course that is a stupid business idea for a $99 player. I also see that the user friendly software is the vital part of the ease of use formula, and isnt that dear a component.

So the baby iPod would not be based around any sort of Toshiba hard drive but would have a modest capacity flash card of some description, for "only" several hundred minutes of tunes. It would have the same basic technology as a full blown iPod in respect of synching seamlessly with iTMS and iTunes - and it is the ease of use and the low price that is the winning hand - without costing Apple money.

So, if because of limited space people have to change playlists every other day, at least they know with the Apple player it´s only going to take seconds. Then when they are sold on the idea of the iPod, human nature takes over, the "inconvenience" of swapping tunes around begins to drag and they go for a full blown iPod, passing their $99 version on to little Johnny. Repeat the process.

Quite what storage card would be suitable I dont know, but Im only a thick ideas person
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: product differentiation

Originally posted by jjblair
But the important thing is that they were the first to come out with the product that everybody bought. maybe Hertz wasn't the first to rent cars, but they were the first to be succesful at it. Sony came out with Mini Disc first, but nobody cared, and the media was not widely adopted, so it was inconsequential.

<g> Microsoft does that a lot too. <g>

Seriously though, I think what iPod was the first to do was to create a portable media player that fit into people's lifestyle. The combination of iPod + iTunes actually made large music libraries meaningful and more usable. The ease at which you can sort and organize a large library and create multiple use-oriented playlists is still un-matched and takes the genre from geek to everyone who lives with music.
 
1) Revenue and profit are two different things (you can't take revenue, subtract cost of goods, and still have revenue, it's now profit), but you are correct that iTunes provides very little of both when compared to Apple's overall performance.

2) Japanese markets are very trend and gadget oriented. This sort of thing will be gangbusters in Japan, especially if they put a picture of a hippo dressed in a panda suit on it, or something. They love complicated products that don't do one thing very well, but instead do many things adequately. We are task and process driven, they just want a cute journey to wherever they end up (talking about consumer culture, not the Japanese work ethic).

3) Flash cards can't write nearly as fast as hard drives, IIRC. At least, not the cheap ones, which is what they would need to use to keep costs down to what consumers would like. The iPod transfers data SO quickly via firewire...

4) Sony is suddenly pushing price point for their products. This isn't their usual strategy, so I'm very skeptical of their abilities to make this profitable. I think they are going to take a big loss trying to get into a market that they failed miserably in previously.
 
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