Sony to Compete with iPod

[ALoLA]

size matters

At least as far as capacity is concerned. Sony's device at 1.8 + whatever the memory stick has will not be enough. Before getting an iPod, I thought even 5 GB was ridiculous for a portable music player. But after using one, I can see why there is a need for 10, 20, even 40 gigs. Sony's device may do a lot, but if you have to carry a bunch of sticks and discs around, it will not be practical. I think one of the best selling points about the iPod is that I have a large portion of my entire music collection on one small, slick, easy-to-use, portable device. It'll be fine as a portabe gaming unit, like the GameBoy, but it'll never be an iPod. 😀

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by the_dalex
1) Revenue and profit are two different things (you can't take revenue, subtract cost of goods, and still have revenue, it's now profit), but you are correct that iTunes provides very little of both when compared to Apple's overall performance.

Since Apple does not provide profit #'s for the iTMS, the next best measure is to compare revenue. Bear in mind that I wasn't saying you can compare revenue to profit, this is apple and oranges. I did compare revenue of the iTMS to their overall quarterly revenue to illustrate that iTMS is only a drop in the bucket.

You'll notice that the #'s I quoted were comparing the revenue of one department to overalll quartely revenue, apples to apples, so to speak.

My guess is if you stated talking profits, it would be quite apparent that the iTMS is a huge money loser vs the fact that Apple made $44 million in profit last quarter. Hence the need to sell iPods at a premium and decreasing the likelyhood of any iPod less than $200-300.

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by leet1
This would fall into my area. I'd be willing to shell out $100 for 1 gig of space, but thats all I'd spend on a portable music device. Would beat the hell out of the Gym's music! lol

The average person wouldn't need more than 1 gig anyways, thats a lot of space and a lot more than I would need to listen to in one day.

I'd prefer flash memory or something similar over a harddrive<they tend to skip I've read on long runs>, but I wouldn't be too picky for that price. Sony makes high quality products, so thats no worry here 😀

If 1GB is enough for you, a flash-based device would be your best (only) option (aside from the ubiquitous CD-MP3 players, but those skip 1000x more than an HD-based player).

On the other hand, I DON'T think that the "average" consumer will get an iPod-ish experience out of a 1GB device. I don't know ANYONE who can fit their music for a week or more in 1GB. 1GB is about ten CDs (downcoded to 128kb AAC or MP3). Hardly the basis of a "music library in your pocket" style device.

iPod users don't spend fifteen minutes each morning figuring out which tunes to take with them, and another fifteen minutes waiting for yesterday's selections to get dumped and today's selections uploaded to their iPods. iPod users don't spend four hours a day kicking themselves for forgetting to put that one cool song they can't get out of their head on their iPod.

I really just physically can't imagine a 1GB iPod.

Actually, I can. It just really sucks.

 

[leet1]

iPod users don't spend four hours a day kicking themselves for forgetting to put that one cool song they can't get out of their head on their iPod.

lol, I guess I don't need the "Ipod" experience. I've probably only downloaded 6-7gigs of music over the past 5 years or so. 1 gig<10 CDs worth> would be great for me.

 

[cryptochrome]

The PSP will be cheap. Because they're going to sell it at a loss.

The PS2 was designed as a game player. This device was also designed to be a game player. As it turns out, the PS2 also makes a perfectly good DVD and CD player, and is used as such. The PSP with some extra storage space can be turned into a perfectly good digital video and audio player, and with a chip and antenna a mobile phone.

Most of the necessary hardware was there to begin with. Adding just a little more hardware gives you a lot more functionality. This is a big part of why convergence devices make sense. The PS2, for instance, with a net connection, hard drive, and tuner chip or two gains:
a full fledged PVR
a way to play shareware games
a digital satellite/cable decoder, obviating the need for a separate box and many confusing wires
Browser, email, and other net capabilities.
+ more.

And I should mention, the PS2 is sold at a loss. Sony makes all their money licensing games for their system (which is why you don't see shareware for it). The PSP will be the same way. It may cost less than a $100 in the store, but it will cost more than twice that to make it. And they'll be making them in bulk.

 

[greenstork]

Originally posted by leet1
lol, I guess I don't need the "Ipod" experience. I've probably only downloaded 6-7gigs of music over the past 5 years or so. 1 gig<10 CDs worth> would be great for me.

Don't underestimate the power of the full library shuffle on an iPod, it is a beautiful thing.

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by greenstork
Don't underestimate the power of the full library shuffle on an iPod, it is a beautiful thing.

If it wasn't $300, it would be a beautiful thing to me, hehe.

 

[1macker1]

Yeah I'm with you, I think I have about 2 gigs of music. I've burned every good song off every CD that I have, and I've purchased about 30 songs from iTMS

Originally posted by leet1
lol, I guess I don't need the "Ipod" experience. I've probably only downloaded 6-7gigs of music over the past 5 years or so. 1 gig<10 CDs worth> would be great for me.

 

[BaDBoY]

60?? yea right!

i think thats a bunch of bull to make people think that this player sony is making is gonna be JUST 60 dollars. i mean COME ON! the god damn memory stick for 128 costs about $60 Bucks itself! think about it.. it like youre buying the memory and you get the player for free. either that or they are gonna raise the price drastically when it comes out and they realize they will be kicking themselves in the ass, OR... the entire player will be cheap shiet. LCD screen, 1.8 GB player all these other features.. FOR $60 dollars??? hell the best CD player in teh market costs well over 100.

Edit: I just noticed that the price did indicate it will be AS LOW AS $60... meaning that it will certianly be higher.. but what can you get for 60 dollars? i bet that inorder to get all these "amazing" functions of this "walkman of the future", youre gonna have to dish out well more than jsut 100... even 200! maybe the hard drive/memory will be from 512 Mb to 1.8 GB.. but to get the bigger one you gota pay tons more.. not to mention LCD screens arent cheap. for one of those little LCD screens for the playstation.. they cost well about 100.. if youre lucky to find it on ebay at tha price.. lotta poeple over price that crap

Even if that thing becomes a cell phone.. would i wanna carry a clunky big thing holding on my ear and asking.. why are you holding a big box on your ear.. i would feel weird to say.. "oh im on the phone." reminds me when motorola made those really big fat phones... i think you know what i am talkign about.

 

[rspress]

I don't see a 100 dollar iPod anywhere in Apples near future. As the Sony article states, they cannot make hard drive models that cheap and neither can Apple. Apple can make a 5gig model for around 200 bucks and they should do this. It would be a great entry level iPod and the sales would skyrocket....it would also steal sales away from Apples higher priced, bigger margin iPods and therefore will probably not happen until a real competitor comes forth to challenge the iPods size, software, ports and coolness. Sony could be the one to do that.

Sony products are some of the best and most respected in the business and if any company can give Apple a run for the money in the MP3 player business it will be Sony. Not surprising, Microsoft still does not have a clue....too busy smashing Linux I guess.🙄

 

[manu chao]

I know it is a simplification and it is not true in all cases, but I would assume that a 2GB or 5 or 10 or 20 or 40 GB 1.8'' harddrive would cost about the same to produce. The manufacturer sets the prices such that the price for the lowest capacity modell covers at least the variable costs (i.e. not including costs like the factory building) and the prices for the larger versions according to what the market allows for.

The price of the smallest drive could be set lower to make it unattractive for competitors (who might only be able to produce the smaller harddrive) to enter the buisiness or higher to prevent the smallest modell to cannibalise sales for bigger drives.

That means there probably is no smaller iPod because the don't want to sell a loss-making product, or they don't want to loose sales of the bigger, i.e. more expensive, versions.

 

[Gyroscope]

Heh what have poor Apple got themselves into? 🙂 😛

Now they will have to compete with Sony in music business, Dell in computer hardware business ,and Microsoft in software business. All of which are No1 in their respectable categories.

Man sometimes it seems that whole world is just standing there waiting to pick Apple's brain and then to tear them apart.

 

[manu chao]

Originally posted by 1macker1
Yeah I'm with you, I think I have about 2 gigs of music. I've burned every good song off every CD that I have, and I've purchased about 30 songs from iTMS

I have about 11GB of music, 90% from my own CDs, and I don't think I own a lot of music compared to my contemporaries. I know people who have 10m (33ft) of music (CD cases stacked on top of each other).

 

[johnnyjibbs]

The PSP will not have a 1.8 GB hard drive/flash memory, etc on it. This "1.8 GB" is surely talking about proprietry DVDs (probably 8cm ones, similar to GameCube's own proprietry 1.5 GB mini DVDs) that you buy with games on - i.e. removable media. Nintendo is looking into mini DVD media for the GBA's successor, and Sony is probably looking into a similar thing.

I think some people are confusing these game media discs as being 1.8 GB included space for storing music.

A games machine follows the Gilette model, where they make a loss on the hardware so that you buy it and then have to buy their games at high profit margins. The iPod doesn't follow this, as profit has to be made on the hardware (you could say iTMS is the software but, as pointed out, is nowhere near the same revenue or necessisity to make it viable). The PSP follows the Gilette model, not the iPod's model, so they are different markets and have different functions.

When the PS2 was being hyped, they were saying how you could connect this and that to it - i.e. much more than a games machine. In reality, none of this (other than watching DVDs) materialised. An "iPod killer" is probably just what this machine is touted as possibly being capable of, but never happening.

 

[Dahl]

I probably have about 12m and I have sold about the same length over the years. 😀 Music is the only thing I still "collect", no more DVD's or books. OK, I do get some DVD's like Nemo and other out of this world titles and I do get some art books, but I don't buy everything anymore. I want less stuff, not more.

 

[medea]

well by looking at the concept photo, it certainly does not look like it will only run $60. crock.

 

[Lanbrown]

Re: 60?? yea right!

Originally posted by BaDBoY
Even if that thing becomes a cell phone.. would i wanna carry a clunky big thing holding on my ear and asking.. why are you holding a big box on your ear.. i would feel weird to say.. "oh im on the phone." reminds me when motorola made those really big fat phones... i think you know what i am talkign about.

Have you seen the NGAGE? Looks like a Frisbee stuck to your head.

Medea,

That's the prototype for the PSP not the iPod competitor.

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by jettredmont
If 1GB is enough for you, a flash-based device would be your best (only) option (aside from the ubiquitous CD-MP3 players, but those skip 1000x more than an HD-based player).

On the other hand, I DON'T think that the "average" consumer will get an iPod-ish experience out of a 1GB device. I don't know ANYONE who can fit their music for a week or more in 1GB. 1GB is about ten CDs (downcoded to 128kb AAC or MP3). Hardly the basis of a "music library in your pocket" style device.

iPod users don't spend fifteen minutes each morning figuring out which tunes to take with them, and another fifteen minutes waiting for yesterday's selections to get dumped and today's selections uploaded to their iPods. iPod users don't spend four hours a day kicking themselves for forgetting to put that one cool song they can't get out of their head on their iPod.

I really just physically can't imagine a 1GB iPod.

Actually, I can. It just really sucks.

I couldn't agree more. As a recent new owner of a 15GB iPod, it is just unbelievable. I ripped my entire 250+ CD collection, iTunes purchases and even my downloaded pirated music and have about 10 GB in my iPod. I use it mainly at work and love listening to my ENTIRE music colection. Never seemed to play most of it when I had to hunt down the CD from the butt ugly (since removed) CD storage cabinet.

I've had it 3 weeks now and still haven't heard the same song twice. Smart playlists are awesome.

Back on point, it is designed to carry your music collection with you, not a small numer of songs that need to be changed frequently.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

Originally posted by Gyroscope
Heh what have poor Apple got themselves into? 🙂 😛

Now they will have to compete with Sony in music business, Dell in computer hardware business ,and Microsoft in software business.

and they will still do everything better than any of them. the ipod is a dream of an mp3 player. dont even talk to me about dell 'hardware'. and once i tried keynote, there was no going back to photoshop... i just need a better word processor from apple...

i digress... i dont see this new sony as a 'threat' or an 'ipod killer'. its going to make apple work harder and put out a better product. old steve-o doesnt like to play second fiddle when it comes to inovation.

 

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by leet1
If it wasn't $300, it would be a beautiful thing to me, hehe.

The $300 price tag is a reflection of the iPod's quality. Price it too low, people will start to think anyone can have one. It's something people save up for: a lofty goal.

Think: Mercedes-Benz CLK vs. Ford Escort

 

[rdowns]

Originally posted by leet1
If it wasn't $300, it would be a beautiful thing to me, hehe.

$300 is peanuts. Tell me you couldn't find 5 dollars a day that you piss away and buy an iPod after a month. Or $2.50 for two months. Most people could easily do that if they really wanted one by cutting out overpriced coffee or eating cheaper lunches.

 

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by rdowns
I couldn't agree more. As a recent new owner of a 15GB iPod, it is just unbelievable. I ripped my entire 250+ CD collection, iTunes purchases and even my downloaded pirated music and have about 10 GB in my iPod. I use it mainly at work and love listening to my ENTIRE music colection. Never seemed to play most of it when I had to hunt down the CD from the butt ugly (since removed) CD storage cabinet.

I've had it 3 weeks now and still haven't heard the same song twice. Smart playlists are awesome.

Back on point, it is designed to carry your music collection with you, not a small numer of songs that need to be changed frequently.

Gone are the days of removable media.....sniff sniff.

I miss cassettes, CD's, even the occasional 8 track or vinyl.

We're losing our roots, it seems to me. Removable media is where all this came from.

Jeez, I can't remember the last time I bought a CD.....🙁

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by sethypoo
The $300 price tag is a reflection of the iPod's quality. Price it too low, people will start to think anyone can have one.

Think: Mercedes-Benz CLK vs. Ford Escort

Are you kidding? lol....


Price it low and more people will buy it. Who cares if anyone can have it? Its an MP3 player, not a freaking status symbol.

 

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by leet1
Are you kidding? lol....


Price it low and more people will buy it. Who cares if anyone can have it? Its an MP3 player, not a freaking status symbol.

Um, yes it is a status symbol, look at the price. And don't try to tell me a $50,000+ car isn't a status symbol. Everyone who comes out with a new MP3 product calls it a "iPod killer." They wish they could have the kind of *status* Apple has with their iPod.

🙄

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by rdowns
$300 is peanuts. Tell me you couldn't find 5 dollars a day that you piss away and buy an iPod after a month. Or $2.50 for two months. Most people could easily do that if they really wanted one by cutting out overpriced coffee or eating cheaper lunches.

$300 is not peanuts, $300 is $300. I'd never spend $300 on an mp3 player, but thats just me. I'm a college student and already only spending $5 a day, lol. I can't cut anymore outta that.