Sony's Upcoming Smart TVs to Receive AirPlay 2 and HomeKit in Summer 2019, Including $70,000 Model

I like how the same argument keeps repeating itself every time we shift resolution. 720P 1080 4K and now 8K and every single time people have the same old argument forgetting last time we all switched despite all the people saying nobody would see the difference.
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I've got a $16,000 Pioneer screen, still awesome after 12 years. $70K tv's are for people that buy $2million cars, or for professional use. You wouldn't believe what some people put in their houses and have removed / replaced 2 years later because they are bored with it.
See my post above on this page. For 4K it was pointless if you were sitting too far from the TV, say more than about 6ft for 55", which is a popular size for 4K because it's so inexpensive. For 8K, even at this huge 98" size, you'd have to be sitting a little over 3ft away. This is based on math and science. Human vision has a limit, and that limit is one arc minute at 20/20.

The people who were saying that about 720p were not basing that on anything related to math and science, but a feeling. And today we are running up against a real limit here. Although I will admit that the difference between 720p and 1080p is not as significant as the difference between 1080p and 4K in terms of the RAW resolution leap. You're talking about 1MP vs. 2MP, compared to 2MP vs. 8MP. Perhaps that's where some people were subjectively getting that, and sometimes even today I have a hard time telling the difference between a 720p phone and a 1080p phone, or trying to determine whether a pretty old TV is 720p or 1080p because they both look pixelated up close—and I'm a professional designer who designs primarily for screens and devices. It still takes a minute to figure it out, and I've had to do this a lot in the past determining resolutions for legacy digital signage that don't have accessible menu functions or documentation that we don't want to pull off the wall.

Honestly I think the sweet spot is 6K. This is more than enough for any large sized 100" TV, it's a great resolution for a desktop display (I actually predicted the 6K ~32" Apple display before the rumors), and it allows video professionals to shoot 8K and have room to adjust the shot with cropping and stabilization. I think it would also lead to quicker adoption because it will be less likely to kill our internet infrastructure and many films have been shot in 6K for years on Red cameras. I'm honestly surprised that the industry didn't go in that direction because I think it would be the perfect resolution for human vision on TVs that can actually fit in most living rooms and at attainable prices (aka not $70,000). But I guess it doesn't have the same marketing pull.
 
And Xiaomi just announced their new Mi 65" TV for $1099 which is basically their version of Samsung the Frame TV. ( https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/18...e-serif-4k-hdr-tv-announced-ces-2019-features)

You have one cable, that connect to a box for both Power and Signals. I could wish that cable and port pub is a Open Standard so we can separate the panel and the box.

And Apple could have partner with someone to make the panel. Which they concrete on the box for Apple TV.
 
I like how the same argument keeps repeating itself every time we shift resolution. 720P 1080 4K and now 8K and every single time people have the same old argument forgetting last time we all switched despite all the people saying nobody would see the difference.

But at some point, there is a vanishing point. 480p to 1080p is totally dramatic from a normal viewing distance. 1080p to 4K, honestly isn't after a point. I have a 5K 27" iMac and when I get more than 5 feet from it to watch a video in bed, I'd be hard-pressed to tell you whether it was in 4K or 1080p. The human eye has its limits. I get 8K for a movie theater or something, but this is one upgrade I'm more than happy to be on the trailing edge of.
 
But at some point, there is a vanishing point. 480p to 1080p is totally dramatic from a normal viewing distance. 1080p to 4K, honestly isn't after a point. I have a 5K 27" iMac and when I get more than 5 feet from it to watch a video in bed, I'd be hard-pressed to tell you whether it was in 4K or 1080p. The human eye has its limits. I get 8K for a movie theater or something, but this is one upgrade I'm more than happy to be on the trailing edge of.

I agree. 8K works mainly for a screen over 100".

But there is also another reason to get 8K in a smaller screen, which is entirely dependent on whether the source is also 8K. It allows a picture to be enlarged without losing visible resolution. Of course that's not the primary way most people watch TV anyway. That said, if an 8K source can be scaled down for a 4K display, the same thing is possible without the expensive 8K hardware.
 
Apple TV 4K STB Requires two remote, one for Apple TV and one for the TV itself. I can't watch Aerial TV with Apple TV, which is still what everyone watches in the world apart from Amercia. And this requires me using the WebOS on a different remote.

Not to mention I have no idea what the WebOS / Andriod Apps on the TV are doing behind my back. I much rather prefer to have Apple taken care of that.

Yes, DVB satellite. I’m half German and travel there all the time so I’m very familiar with how things are done outside America. The best part is being able to buy and use your own DVR with external HDDs which is simply not possible in America to record any pay TV content for transfer to a PC.

At least in America on my C8, the TV has a guide and guide button on the LG remote for OTA/cable/sat.

Remember that with HDMI-CEC you can control both the TV and ATV with either remote although not for all options.

As for data collection. Yes, they all do it but I don’t care if LG or Sony know what I’m watching. IMO its very different from FB and Google having access to your private photos, calendars, e-mails and contacts. This is unacceptable and a different story.

You can also turn off data collection on the LG but you will obviously not be able to use Google Assistant or Alexa if you do.
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What does this have to do with HDR and 10-bit color? You're comparing old 1080p TVs to 4K, not 4K to 8K. Straw man argument.

Let's get back to reality and talk some real numbers based on real math and science. A human with 20/20 vision has a certain visual acuity of one arc minute. Beyond a certain resolution, they can no longer perceive a difference between pixels as they begin to blur together. There is a limit to human vision. A 55" 4K display has an ideal viewing distance of a little over 6ft. Any further and a perfect human specimen will not be able to tell a difference. If you have any sort of corrected vision (glasses, contacts) your numbers are likely to be worse, even corrected. Even so, assuming you have perfect vision, a little over 6ft between your couch and TV makes for a pretty small living room setup. Not ideal, but that's okay if that's what you're dealing with and you don't mind that. It's at least doable.

However, let's take things a step further with 8K. Remember—8K both doubles 4K resolution in both width and height. Factoring this in, a 98" 8K display is even worse than your 55" 4K TV. Much worse. The ideal viewing distance of a 98" 8K display is a little over 3ft. Any further away and it all blends together. Now you can argue all day if you want, and you can be sure that I won't respond—the fact of the matter is that you're wrong because these numbers are based on math and science. No amount of wishing is going to change that. Human vision at 20/20 cannot resolve anything more than one arc minute. These calculations are based on that reality, which are based on scientific observation and testing. Science and math always come out on top. To achieve the same visual acuity as your 55" 4K TV, you would need approximately a 190" 8K TV if you were sitting a little over 6ft away. For now 8K TVs are utterly pointless, worthless, marketing jargon for people who don't know the difference between a pixel and a pica. There is no reason to have one in your living room and are only even coming close to being useful for large desktop displays that you sit close to. But even in that situation I'm not convinced that it's worth it because you'd need a 48" 8K display at a distance of approximately 18" at your desk and the viewing angle for that sounds neck-breaking painful.

As for content, where is it? Japan? I know NHK that has an 8K stream and will broadcast the 2020 Olympics in 8K. Good for them, there is that one thing plus some videos on Vimeo. But show me a link to buy or stream an actual real 8K movie. And no, some random Vimeo link by some independent studio short film project doesn't count. I'll be waiting.

TL;DR: 8K displays are pointless until wall-sized displays are widely available without needing to take out a second mortgage. The human eye at 20/20 can't resolve beyond one arc minute and therefore can't tell the difference between a 98" 8K and 4K TV unless you're about 3ft away. There is no content and the price is ridiculous. 8K TVs are an excellent way for fools to part with their money.

I wasn’t talking about 8K which is pointless right now since there is zero content (apart from semi-pro/pro travel & nature videos on YouTube) available, rather the benefits of 4K over 1080p which is ready for prime time now. There is tons of 4K content out there, TVs have much higher peak brightness than early HDR sets and cover nearly the full DCI-P3 color space. Color volume is not there yet as well as full BT.2020 coverage. The best OLED can do is about 80% of DCI-P3 while the best Samsung QLED, Q9FN, can show just over 90%.

Now when 8K is eventually mainstream and replaces 4K, people will still see some benefits on 55”-65” sets. Sure the difference will never be as huge as going from 480i/p to 1080p. The law of diminishing returns always applies. However 12-bit panels with much higher peak brightness will eventually replace 10-bit panels so again there will be big benefits apart from resolution. These 12-bit panels will only be available on 4K/8K just like 1080p HDR TVs don’t exist even though you don’t need 4K+ for HDR.

A native 8K image would also be much more sharp than a native 1080p/4K image at the same typical viewing distance because of the higher PPI. Even though my C8 is just 55” 1080p looks a little softer than native 4K even with Blu-Rays.

Now will everyone notice the difference like I do and perhaps you would? No. Some people barely noticed the difference between 16:9 480p and 720p or 720p and 1080p. I could always tell even on my old 46” Samsung when a cable channel was 720p instead of 1080i. It’s obvious with heavily compressed content but decreases as big rates get higher. People with good vision or these into tech like us who notice things like color accuracy, black levels, compression artifacts etc. certainly will.

Another example: I noticed motion interpolation as soon as I saw it on the Samsung 4671F (Samsung’s first 120 Hz LCD in 2007. I described it to my gf at the time as looking like a soap opera. To her the picture looked normal. Some people just don’t pay as much attention to details like others do.
 
LOL!!! I used to be a member on the AVS forums community and those Sony Fanboys over there are so hard core about their little Sonys and just like Dolby Vision rollout, here we are yet again with them waffling.

I'll never buy a Sony again given how shoddy their customer service is and lack of innovation. They are relying solely on their lookup tables and software processing. And android OS is even junk.

Get a LG OLED and play it safe. HDMI 2.1 etc. They also make all the panels for OLED TVs today so you'll get a better panel more than likely through them. Plus better pricing
 
LOL!!! I used to be a member on the AVS forums community and those Sony Fanboys over there are so hard core about their little Sonys and just like Dolby Vision rollout, here we are yet again with them waffling.

I'll never buy a Sony again given how shoddy their customer service is and lack of innovation. They are relying solely on their lookup tables and software processing. And android OS is even junk.

Get a LG OLED and play it safe. HDMI 2.1 etc. They also make all the panels for OLED TVs today so you'll get a better panel more than likely through them. Plus better pricing

Android TV is total junk for sure... the UI is 1080p on 4K TVs.

There is a good case to get an AppleTV, ...disable WiFi on smart TVs to stop Google spying on your viewing habits.
 
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