Spain Launches Investigation Into Apple's App Store

[wbeasley]

if EU contributes 25% of Apple income, then Spain might be 1%-ish.

this could be an easy way for Apple to test the waters and pull out of Spain.
very little impact. and pretty sure Spanish users will fund a way to still get products from a border state.

 

[jlc1978]

Apple hasn't realised that the EU isn't the US. In the US, you can do what you want providing it's within the text of the law.

In the EU, the laws are not only expected to be followed but they imply a way businesses should behave. The EU have mentioned previously about abiding by the the spirit of their laws to protect consumers.

The challenge with that is trying to find out what the regulators think is compliance with the spirit of the law; as a result there is back and forth until some consensus is reached as to what constitutes compliance.

No company will willingly give up more than they have to in order to comply if it causes them to lose revenue; so the kabuki dance begins.

 

[arian71]

Cant wait for us to develop our own EU os , **** Apple and everything american

 

[jlc1978]

if EU contributes 25% of Apple income, then Spain might be 1%-ish.

this could be an easy way for Apple to test the waters and pull out of Spain.
very little impact. and pretty sure Spanish users will fund a way to still get products from a border state.

Not going to happen. As a side note, Spain has the second most Apple stores in the EU, second only to Germany and is 7th worldwide.

Cant wait for us to develop our own EU os , **** Apple and everything american

It's been tried several times and failed.

 

[arian71]

if EU contributes 25% of Apple income, then Spain might be 1%-ish.

this could be an easy way for Apple to test the waters and pull out of Spain.
very little impact. and pretty sure Spanish users will fund a way to still get products from a border state.

as if the born in the sun mediterranean people care what kind of phone they need, most have android phones.
only people with no sun and beaches enjoy iPhones
have that you Northern backwards

 

[ThailandToo]

It’s an App Store. To download apps. It has nothing to do with innovating anything.

Well. If developers know they won’t get screwed over by AAPL and Tim won’t steal their tech and offer anticompetitive pricing, more developers will potentially develop for the EU than other segments of the market.

And anyone who wants to pay the Apple Tax can certainly do so. And there is some merit to one place for consumers. But there’s also freedom of choice. Anyone can choose to only buy where AAPL gets the 30% cut and willingly steals tech, or they can go to alternative app stores where the developers can keep their money!

It’s about choice. In America, we have no choice. It’s App Store rake through the coals or nothing. The EU has helped consumers there and standing up to bullies is always a good thing if one can back it up. The market is fair enough that Apple wants EU citizens money, they have to follow those laws.

And just as Spain is a member of the EU, a state is a member of the United States. States commonly sue companies. As an AAPL shareholder, I still think the level of greed is not good or beneficial to society. I only believe the wealthiest and the executive teams make out like bandits while consumers get raked through the coals.

There’s something about the EU that is truly for the spirit of entrepreneurship. They protect SMBs from being destroyed by big corporations that only benefit themselves the top 1%.

There’s one great thing in America but not so great about websites like this. People can voice their freedom of speech and state what they think is right and wrong although MR will pull anything that doesn’t become of them. And that’s their will to do so, but it ruins the experience for all of us who appreciate that freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech doesn’t mean that companies should be able to act like bullies as they have all the money and can do whatever they want as they run the show. Governments need to step in and show they care for their citizens. We can all agree or disagree on how that’s best done. But at least the EU tries to protect its citizens and SMBs.

 

[I7guy]

Apple getting hit left, right and centre with potential fines

Waiting for the Apple should pull out of Spain comments 😂😂😂

I’ll oblige. Apple should pull out of Spain.

 

[I7guy]

Well. If developers know they won’t get screwed over by AAPL and Tim won’t steal their tech and offer anticompetitive pricing, more developers will potentially develop for the EU than other segments of the market.

And anyone who wants to pay the Apple Tax can certainly do so. And there is some merit to one place for consumers. But there’s also freedom of choice. Anyone can choose to only buy where AAPL gets the 30% cut and willingly steals tech, or they can go to alternative app stores where the developers can keep their money!

It’s about choice. In America, we have no choice. It’s App Store rake through the coals or nothing. The EU has helped consumers there and standing up to bullies is always a good thing if one can back it up. The market is fair enough that Apple wants EU citizens money, they have to follow those laws.

And just as Spain is a member of the EU, a state is a member of the United States. States commonly sue companies. As an AAPL shareholder, I still think the level of greed is not good or beneficial to society. I only believe the wealthiest and the executive teams make out like bandits while consumers get raked through the coals.

There’s something about the EU that is truly for the spirit of entrepreneurship. They protect SMBs from being destroyed by big corporations that only benefit themselves the top 1%.

There’s one great thing in America but not so great about websites like this. People can voice their freedom of speech and state what they think is right and wrong although MR will pull anything that doesn’t become of them. And that’s their will to do so, but it ruins the experience for all of us who appreciate that freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech doesn’t mean that companies should be able to act like bullies as they have all the money and can do whatever they want as they run the show. Governments need to step in and show they care for their citizens. We can all agree or disagree on how that’s best done. But at least the EU tries to protect its citizens and SMBs.

The EU gave consumers the illusion of choice. The rest of the post is just hyperbole.

 

[nt5672]

Just because there are people who want to make iOS perform like android (instead of getting android) and how it works doesn’t mean you speak for all
Of us.

There is nothing about having 3rd party app stores that will make iOS perform like android.

You can still select to get all of your apps from the Apple app store and your phone will work just the same.

Don't see why you want to limit the freedom of others that have different needs. That view sounds narrow minded to me.

 

[Xiao_Xi]

What I find strange is that the DMA regulations apply to Spain, as it is in the EU, so how can they accuse Apple twice for the same offence?

Apple is accused of violating laws other than the DMA.

 

[darngooddesign]

Cant wait for us to develop our own EU os , **** Apple and everything american

Y'all would rather complain about Apple.

 

[jlc1978]

And anyone who wants to pay the Apple Tax can certainly do so. And there is some merit to one place for consumers. But there’s also freedom of choice. Anyone can choose to only buy where AAPL gets the 30% cut and willingly steals tech, or they can go to alternative app stores where the developers can keep their money!

Everyone keeps talking about the Apple tax but it's just a markup like any store does; and for most developers it's 15%, not 30%. The big players are teh ones screaming about Apple making money while they rake in millions off of the store. EPIC, one of the biggest whiners charges fees to use their products even if they do not sell it through their store; or even if you do not use it to make software products. This battle is elephants fighting and teh small developers will be the roadkill in that fight.

Even at 30%, the 70% cut is more than developers got in the pre-app store days; and the have virtually no upfront costs beyond the developer fee to get their product in front of a worldwide audience. They essentially have very little costs or capital at risk before a sale is made.

I suspect the small developers will find it hard to reach the same audience and pay less than 15% when all the costs are added up from alt store distribution.

Apple is not going to let developers be on the store, sell apps and not make money off of the sale. They will find ways the EU considers satisfactory; and I suspect it will result in higher up front costs for small developers and possibly higher costs than the old 15%. I also suspect a significant percentage of IPhone users will stick with Apple's store so developers will have no choice but to be there, and may decided the added hassle of dealing with alt stores simply not worth it.

Personally, If I were Apple, I'd have a sideloading system much like the Mac, where the iPhone user can decided what data and information to allow the app to access, and offer the developers either:

1. Use all our services, include payment processing, and pay the 15% or 30%, depending on revenue and a 99Euro developer fee. You're also free to sell through other stores; or
2. Use whatever payment processor you want but we charge a monthly hosting fee and a per download fee from anything obtained from our site; if you want to be on our App Store. Any sales using our payment processor will offset those costs.
3. Truly free - i.e. no adds, subscriptions, etc. are still free.

In any case, you're free to sell through another store and have the app installed in our side loaded but sandboxed environment if you aren't a registered developer, or without the warning if you are a registered developer with a signed app; like on the Mac. The developer fee, however, is based on your revenue if you are not on our store.

Developers then have real choices - stay like it is, do a modified version or go it alone; and it is the spirit of the DMA as developers can now be free from Apple completely if they want. They decide what is best for them.

As for sideloading, I'd still want the ability to restrict apps from tracking me, harvesting data, block access to things like contacts, etc.

As an aside, I'd start charging governmental agencies in the EU; why would they get a free ride?

 

[wbeasley]

Well. If developers know they won’t get screwed over by AAPL and Tim won’t steal their tech and offer anticompetitive pricing, more developers will potentially develop for the EU than other segments of the market.

And anyone who wants to pay the Apple Tax can certainly do so. And there is some merit to one place for consumers. But there’s also freedom of choice. Anyone can choose to only buy where AAPL gets the 30% cut and willingly steals tech, or they can go to alternative app stores where the developers can keep their money!

It’s about choice. In America, we have no choice. It’s App Store rake through the coals or nothing. The EU has helped consumers there and standing up to bullies is always a good thing if one can back it up. The market is fair enough that Apple wants EU citizens money, they have to follow those laws.

And just as Spain is a member of the EU, a state is a member of the United States. States commonly sue companies. As an AAPL shareholder, I still think the level of greed is not good or beneficial to society. I only believe the wealthiest and the executive teams make out like bandits while consumers get raked through the coals.

There’s something about the EU that is truly for the spirit of entrepreneurship. They protect SMBs from being destroyed by big corporations that only benefit themselves the top 1%.

There’s one great thing in America but not so great about websites like this. People can voice their freedom of speech and state what they think is right and wrong although MR will pull anything that doesn’t become of them. And that’s their will to do so, but it ruins the experience for all of us who appreciate that freedom of speech. However, freedom of speech doesn’t mean that companies should be able to act like bullies as they have all the money and can do whatever they want as they run the show. Governments need to step in and show they care for their citizens. We can all agree or disagree on how that’s best done. But at least the EU tries to protect its citizens and SMBs.

Apple dont force devs put the ir apps in the AppStore.
They do it because they know they will make money.
Or its a free app that they subscribe to outside the store.

Consumers also have millions of apps to choose from.
Do a quick search on video converters. Lots of different apps at different price points.
Or teach yourself piano... the yearly subscription is about 5 hours of real life training.
How is the consumer being screwed?

Hardware and software are so much cheaper these days compared to 20 years ago.
Perhaps you've all forgotten lining up for a new OS release that cost you $100 to install?

Havent seen MR pull anything like what you stated.
The moment EU is mentioned the posts light up both defending and condemning.
Freedom of Speech isnt a right everywhere.
And no matter what thought you express, Freedom of Consequence of those words still exists.

 

[Drecca]

Even at 30%, the 70% cut is more than developers got in the pre-app store days; and the have virtually no upfront costs beyond the developer fee to get their product in front of a worldwide audience. They essentially have very little costs or capital at risk before a sale is made.

????

Business idea. Market research. Developing the software. Backend data and infrastructure. Data hosting. Marketing. Support.

It’s nice to think of an app as just some little thing, but what you see in an app isn’t the whole business and effort behind it.

All the risks are on the person or people building the app. Apple took their risk 15 years ago and reaped those rewards already, and no one was there taking their 30%.

 

[AppliedMicro]

this could be an easy way for Apple to test the waters and pull out of Spain.

How?

Apple products can be sold cross-border in Europe. And Apple has already been fined in Spain for anticompetitive behaviour in sale of their products.

pretty sure Spanish users will fund a way to still get products from a border state.

Pretty sure, yeah.
The question is: Why would they, if they can't download apps for their products?

I mean, if Apple continue to provide an App Store in Spain customers, they'll still be subject to Spanish law and regulation.

 

[wbeasley]

????

Business idea. Market research. Developing the software. Backend data and infrastructure. Data hosting. Marketing. Support.

It’s nice to think of an app as just some little thing, but what you see in an app isn’t the whole business and effort behind it.

All the risks are on the person or people building the app. Apple took their risk 15 years ago and reaped those rewards already, and no one was there taking their 30%.

Was anyone complaining when apps sold in physical stores were only returning 10% of the shelf price to devs?
The packaging, the returns, the theft, the binning of last version items?
It was wasteful and the app devs had the same upfront costs then as well they risked.
And even getting in a store required market chanels and promo materials.

We read time and again on here from smaller devs that they are happy at 30% to Apple for all they get from it.
It's the big end that make all the noise.

 

[now i see it]

Another week, another investigation

 

[bradman83]

Competition drives innovation and is always better in free markets. You’re speaking contrary to reality.

I think there's a valid debate to be had over whether free markets really exist in a duopoly. The smartphone market is dominated by Apple and Google and it would be incredibly different for a third party to cook up a new operating system to compete without the associated app market and ecosystem (see: Tizen, Windows Phone). Apple and Google compete with each other, but there is no outside competition to shake up the scene. That reduces the incentive to compete because the two players can rest on their laurels knowing users are locked into their respective ecosystems and can't easily move.

 

[I7guy]

????

[…]

All the risks are on the person or people building the app.

That risk is no different than starting a new job. It’s called entrepreneurship.

Apple took their risk 15 years ago and reaped those rewards already, and no one was there taking their 30%.

The built a complete platform for developers to come in. It was a business risk and it payed off handsomely for all. No one took their 30% because they built the store.

 

[AppliedMicro]

It’s an App Store. To download apps. It has nothing to do with innovating anything.

Exactly. That's why the EU (or member states) regulating its rules and business practices is not "anti-innovation".

It's just about business conduct of an important intermediary between businesses (developers) and consumers.

 

[wbeasley]

How?

Apple products can be sold cross-border in Europe. And Apple has already been fined in Spain for anticompetitive behaviour in sale of their products.

Pretty sure, yeah.
The question is: Why would they, if they can't download apps for their products?

I mean, if Apple continue to provide an App Store in Spain customers, they'll still be subject to Spanish law and regulation.

pretty easy to change to a different country in your settings.
you think Apple are going to geofence Spain?

 

[I7guy]

I think there's a valid debate to be had over whether free markets really exist in a duopoly. The smartphone market is dominated by Apple and Google and it would be incredibly different for a third party to cook up a new operating system to compete without the associated app market and ecosystem (see: Tizen, Windows Phone). Apple and Google compete with each other, but there is no outside competition to shake up the scene. That reduces the incentive to compete because the two players can rest on their laurels knowing users are locked into their respective ecosystems and can't easily move.

Actually isn’t the smartphone market dominated by Samsung? The smartphone operating system market is dominated by android. The smartphone operating system distributor is dominated by google.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

If Apple's business practices are so fair, why are they constantly being investigated for being anticompetitive? Strange 🤔

I hope this sarcasm is obvious enough

 

[I7guy]

Exactly. That's why the EU (or member states) regulating its rules and business practices is not "anti-innovation".

It's just about business conduct of an important intermediary between businesses (developers) and consumers.

Don’t the dma supporters believe there is still plenty of innovation to be had?

 

[I7guy]

If Apple's business practices are so fair, why are they constantly being investigated for being anticompetitive? Strange 🤔

I hope this sarcasm is obvious enough

Apples business practices were brought into the open in a recent lawsuit. So there is that.

I hope y’all understand that.