Speaker set up - sanity check please!

[OldCorpse]

I’m trying to pick a modest music listening set up for a small room/office.

I don’t need/can’t have loud volume, and so a big audiophile hifi system is not feasible or practical. Instead, we’re talking computer source + bookshelf active speakers. While I won’t be listening to high volume, I’d rather concentrate on decent SQ, of course understanding that I can’t get high end results from such speakers. I just want as decent SQ as I can get from such modest equipment.

Small room, not very reflective (pretty furnished), I’ll be sitting about 6-8 feet fom the speakers. The music is various, jazz, classical, pop, rock, electronica, but not much of it base heavy or thumping; a lot of piano and stuff like Eno.

Music is in local itunes storage on a mac mini server. Files are various, most ALAC.

I’ll be running it from a m2 mac mini 8/256 I just bought, that won’t be used for much else other than as a music server controlled from my MBA/iPad.

I still have not set it up and the number of options and possibilities are overwhelming - I NEED A SANITY CHECK from the smart and knowledgeable folks here!

Here’s what my preliminary idea looks like - feel free to suggest alternatives in case I’m just wrong/wasteful/ignorant:

Mac Mini —> DAC —> Active Speakers

DAC - Topping E50 [my budget: no more than about $250]

Active Speakers: Edifier R2000DB
or Edifier S2000MKIII [my budget: no more than about $500-$600]

However I really don’t have a clue as to what would be the best way to hook up all of this. So please forgive me for asking super basic questions 😩:

1)How does the DAC bypass the MM sound processing - I’ve seen mentions of Bit Perfect, but I also read that Bit Perfect actually doesn’t work a lot of the time - and really, I mean my setup isn’t exactly high end, am I going to hear a difference with this class of equipment, heck, does even a DAC make sense here?? I’m so confused!

2)Since I’m not looking for volume, but for fidelity, maybe a different set of speakers makes more sense (budget under $600).

3)For best SQ what are the best connections and do any of them make a difference with this class of equipment - again, we’re not talking high end: the Topping E50 will take USB/COAX/OPT, but the MM doesn’t have a dedicated audio optical out, so that’s out (I do have a CalDigit 3+ hooked to the MM and that has an OPT out, but I assume it makes no sense to go MM—>CalDigit—>DAC). So question: what are the best ports to connect the MM to DAC to Speaker, and does it even matter.

So far, I only have the MM and MBA+iPad 10; the rest remains to be purchased.

Can you guys give me a sanity check here, I’m sure I’m either overthinking all this since THIS IS NOT HIFI, or I’m just completely botching the whole setup given my requirements for music listening.

Thank you!

 

[Mark.g4]

You don't need a DAC,
Mac mini M2 output in Hi-Res from analog port.
you can save the money on the DAC and invest it on AMPs and speakers.
Speakers and amplifier are the most important things.

Take a look (It depends on whether you have space on your desk and want larger or smaller speakers, less or more budget...etc. etc. )

Magnat supreme 202 or 102
Magnat Tempus 33
Indiana Line tesi 260
Polk audio signature elite ES20 or ES10
Monitor Audio 100
Heco Aurora 300
Jamo S803
Dali spektor or Dali Oberon
JBL studio 603
Klipsch R41-m or R50
Kef Q150 or Q350
JBL A130


All these speakers are passive, but you can use them with the excellent and economical
tube amplifier (if you like tubes) Aiyima T9 or T9 Pro.

As active studio monitors:
I really liked the JBL 305p MKII and you don't need the amplifier.
Or Yamaha Hs5

There is also an 8" Adam studio monitor, I don't remember the model.

A reference in active studio monitor speakers is Genelec, if you are looking for a flat sound that is as faithful as possible to the original Genelec is certainly a reference.

If you are looking for a warm and personalized sound you have to go for hi-fi speakers.


If you want to make a smart purchase and save a lot of money and have excellent quality:
Mordaunt short avant 902
+ a good Chinese class D amp with a good power supply.

For $150-170 you really get a great sound system.

 

[MBAir2010]

can I plug the HomePod minis?
no extra set up or preamp or anything else but simple iTunes.

im listen to a jazz musician russ freeman"s (the rippingtons) "Garden of the Gods"
with 2 HomePod mini in excellent sound.
I can hear every subtle instrument sound and feel the percussion echo in the room.
while at a lower level which is unheard of in other mini or maxi speakers.
they do produce the sound intended by the musician or producer
and fill up the room very well.
since they are made by  they will interchange with everything  related.

these 2 mini speakers replaced a great bluetooth and wifi enabled sound touch by Bose.

I hope this helped

 

[Mark.g4]

I can hear every subtle instrument sound and feel the percussion echo in the room.
while at a lower level which is unheard of in other mini or maxi speakers.

HomePod mini are good small speaker, but it is practically impossible that a small full range speaker can make you hear the medium-low frequencies well, although the use of DSP can deceive the brain, it is a question of displaced air, that little speaker cannot go low in frequencies.

The JBL 305 studio monitors with the 5" woofer already provide better bass performance, quite a difference in size.

 

[MBAir2010]

HomePod mini are good small speaker, but it is practically impossible that a small full range speaker can make you hear the medium-low frequencies well, although the use of DSP can deceive the brain, it is a question of displaced air, that little speaker cannot go low in frequencies.

thanks for in in-depth reply.
and yes those JBL speakers are great, but maybe too much for the OP situation.
but the focus was:
"I’m trying to pick a modest music listening set up for a small room/office."

personally these 2 homePods sound great in a smaller room, and better in a larger room as well.
while listening to Pat Metheny's "same river" which starts out with a double bass line sounded as good as that BOSE speaker I mentioned earlier without the syncing issues and nosebleed or their software.

 

[Mark.g4]

Yes, as I wrote, the mini homepods sound good for their size, but they are not at all the right choice for the requests of the user in the first post.
OldCorpse requested a system with separate sections with desk speakers and separate electronics.

I can assure you that as good as the homepod minis sound, a couple of these that I have mentioned (which are all very compact speakers, except for a few) sound significantly better.

If we really have to recommend homepods, we should be recommended in the larger model, which feels significantly better than the mini ones, which are very neutered in the low frequencies.

2 large homepods can be a good alternative to a "classic" listening system, they sound very good.

 

[OldCorpse]

How would I connect the JBL 305p MKII to the mini?

Thank you guys, this is exactly the kind of sanity check I needed!

Any further suggestions also welcome. I didn’t focus on passive speakers because it gets very expensive very fast, sure, the speakers might be cheap, but by the time you get your amps/preamps you quickly go over budget. My budget is about $600 tops, which is why I thought $200 DAC + $400 active speakers. Of course if I don’t need the DAC, that leaves $600 for the speakers, which kinda means active, no? Otherwise I don’t see how I can get decent quality passive speakers + amp/preamp for less than $600, no?

 

[Mark.g4]

How would I connect the JBL 305p MKII to the mini?

Any further suggestions also welcome. I didn’t focus on passive speakers because it gets very expensive very fast, sure, the speakers might be cheap, but by the time you get your amps/preamps you quickly go over budget. My budget is about $600 tops, which is why I thought $200 DAC + $400 active speakers. Of course if I don’t need the DAC, that leaves $600 for the speakers, which kinda means active, no? Otherwise I don’t see how I can get decent quality passive speakers + amp/preamp for less than $600, no?

I pointed out speakers costing 250-500 dollars and a 100 dollar amplifier.

Look what I reported to you, read carefully, do your research.
Don't close the doors before you inform yourself.

 

[OldCorpse]

Thank you, good point. I’ll look over more of these options 😊

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I’m trying to pick a modest music listening set up for a small room/office.

I don’t need/can’t have loud volume, and so a big audiophile hifi system is not feasible or practical. Instead, we’re talking computer source + bookshelf active speakers. While I won’t be listening to high volume, I’d rather concentrate on decent SQ, of course understanding that I can’t get high end results from such speakers. I just want as decent SQ as I can get from such modest equipment.

Small room, not very reflective (pretty furnished), I’ll be sitting about 6-8 feet fom the speakers. The music is various, jazz, classical, pop, rock, electronica, but not much of it base heavy or thumping; a lot of piano and stuff like Eno.

Music is in local itunes storage on a mac mini server. Files are various, most ALAC.

I’ll be running it from a m2 mac mini 8/256 I just bought, that won’t be used for much else other than as a music server controlled from my MBA/iPad.

I still have not set it up and the number of options and possibilities are overwhelming - I NEED A SANITY CHECK from the smart and knowledgeable folks here!

Here’s what my preliminary idea looks like - feel free to suggest alternatives in case I’m just wrong/wasteful/ignorant:

Mac Mini —> DAC —> Active Speakers

DAC - Topping E50 [my budget: no more than about $250]

Active Speakers: Edifier R2000DB
or Edifier S2000MKIII [my budget: no more than about $500-$600]

However I really don’t have a clue as to what would be the best way to hook up all of this. So please forgive me for asking super basic questions 😩:

1)How does the DAC bypass the MM sound processing - I’ve seen mentions of Bit Perfect, but I also read that Bit Perfect actually doesn’t work a lot of the time - and really, I mean my setup isn’t exactly high end, am I going to hear a difference with this class of equipment, heck, does even a DAC make sense here?? I’m so confused!

2)Since I’m not looking for volume, but for fidelity, maybe a different set of speakers makes more sense (budget under $600).

3)For best SQ what are the best connections and do any of them make a difference with this class of equipment - again, we’re not talking high end: the Topping E50 will take USB/COAX/OPT, but the MM doesn’t have a dedicated audio optical out, so that’s out (I do have a CalDigit 3+ hooked to the MM and that has an OPT out, but I assume it makes no sense to go MM—>CalDigit—>DAC). So question: what are the best ports to connect the MM to DAC to Speaker, and does it even matter.

So far, I only have the MM and MBA+iPad 10; the rest remains to be purchased.

Can you guys give me a sanity check here, I’m sure I’m either overthinking all this since THIS IS NOT HIFI, or I’m just completely botching the whole setup given my requirements for music listening.

Thank you!

You want a stereo pair of full-size HomePods for that size space. They are by far the best solution.

The reason is that one cannot realistically set up a pair of bookshelf speakers for a smallish acoustically complex space to sound really good (this from someone who for years chased high-end audiophile sound with $10k+ of hardware).

However full size HomePods (not the Minis) will auto-adjust to such a space and sound very good. The downside is that they are physically too small to drive into a very large space; but you do not have a large spce. The upside is that they are perfect for your described needs - - because I have a pair set up exactly as you describe, including the music choices. If you do not like the setup I will buy your used HomePods.

My space is an acoustically maximum difficult space. Home office at one end of 17'x30' room, with a wall of glass, a wall of brick and wood, a wall of sheetrock and various furniture. Original HomePods mounted 5' high on a wood bracket built to hold VESA brackets for three 4K displays at the back of a 3'x5' standup desk. I just plugged them in (years ago) and they self-adjusted to sound great. After years spent tweaking speakers, amps/preamps, furniture and sitting positions, what the HomePods do automatically boggles my mind.

My desk w/HomePods sits diagonally at one end of the room ~3'-4' out from the walls. I control the HomePods with Siri and it has been effortless. I never ask Siri for more than 50% volume, usually 25-40% volume. Sound is good for about the half of the space where the speakers are; i.e. ~15'x17'. Sound falls off for the other end of the room and I never overdrive the HomePods trying to fill the full room with loud sound (more than perhaps 75%). That would probably cause distortion if not speaker damage. HomePods are not big speakers.

My intent has been to get a second pair of HomePods for the other end of the room to see how it works. But I have not gotten around to it, mostly because 4 speakers defeats the stereo pair concept so I am concerned that it might disrupt the currently excellent sound.

 

[generdude]

I happen to use an audio interface for performing with music midi software. I also use it to connect my powered desktop speakers to my iMac, via USB. Mine is a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which new costs $199.

An audio interface connected to a computer via USB can improve sound quality and audio capabilities in a few key ways:

Better Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Audio interfaces contain higher quality ADC (analog-to-digital conversion) circuitry compared to typical computer sound cards and onboard audio chips. This results in cleaner audio digitization from incoming analog signals.

Lower Latency - Audio interfaces enable audio inputs and outputs to get routed directly to the computer's processor, bypassing some conversion steps and reducing buffering. This significantly cuts down on audio latency (delay). Critical for recording and monitoring.

Enhanced Connectivity - Interfaces provide versatile input/output connectivity, like XLR, 1/4" line ins and outs, MIDI, and headphone ports to seamlessly integrate microphones, instruments, monitors, and recording gear.

Noise Reduction - Internal audio interface components and circuitry help cut down on electrical interference and added preamp noise that can compromise sound quality. So you get improved clarity and signal-to-noise ratio performance.

Software Integration - Triggers and front panel controls make it easy to integrate operation of music production software and plugins with analog sources, reducing workflow disruption.

So in summary, dedicated audio interfaces overcome computer audio limitations through better conversion quality, reduced latency, more connectivity, lower noise, and overall enhanced performance - resulting in professional grade sound capabilities

 

[Pag46]

You don't need a DAC,
Mac mini M2 output in Hi-Res from analog port.
you can save the money on the DAC and invest it on AMPs and speakers.
Speakers and amplifier are the most important things.

How can you say that? You need a dac to convert the digital file into an analog signal. Either you use the one inside the Mac mini, or you use an external one, but there is a dac somewhere in the chain.
To me, an external one makes a huge difference. A Topping for example (never heard them to be honest) or something else, like a Chord Mojo2, or even a dongle, I am very happy with a Cayin RU6, it’s for headphones but I think you could send the output into amplified speakers.
What I use regularly would be out of scope here, I cannot recommend it.

As for the connection, usb is perfectly fine, especially for this setup, it is enough To send high res, bit perfect data to the dac, which will do its job, sending the analog signal to the amplifier inside the active speakers.
For them, I read good things about Kef, but they could be out of budget.

By the way, I use Roon as audio software, it’s amazing, I can only recommend it.

I know how painful it is to design a system like this on tight budget and lots of constraints… good luck and enkoy!

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[OldCorpse]

Guys, I love this community for all the knowledge, passion and helpfulness. I thank each and every one of you, and I assure you that I carefully read everything you guys post - right now I'm still going one by one through the list Mark.g4 gave - it's a long list! - so it will take me some time to digest it all.

At the same time, you can see why I said I'm overwhelmend! I am a music lover who is passionate about music (hey, my library is 2TB of files at the moment), however I'm really not much of a tech person - hence why I come here and ask silly questions. But you can imagine how confused I am - a non-techie - when smart technologically savvy folks like you have different opinions... gives a guy like me whiplash, 😅

Even when I think I understand something, I'm thrown for a loop: generdude mentions the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, judging by the price I think it's the 4th Gen. Now I've of course seen it out there, but I always associated it more with music production, whereas the Topping E50 (I'll link as Pag46 hasn't heard of them) is more of a DAC pure play (with preamp functions, filters etc.). The reason I picked the E50 is because it uses the ES9068AS chip with some outstanding specs. But now that generdude mentions Focusrite, I am thrown for a loop, it's a different device, but I have not explored in depth f.ex. what chip it uses and what the tech parameters are - perhaps I'm missing something. Very confusing. Meanwhile Pag46 has thrown out a whole another bunch of interfaces I'll have to hunt down the specs for.

Meanwhile Allen_Wentz makes a very strong case for HomePods. My office is 11' x 13' with 9' ceiling. Unfortunately I can't hang the the HomePods on the wall, as I can't hammer anything into the wall. I certainly strongly appreciate Allen's argument that given my budget limitations and listening environment high end equipment is going to be unattainable and if attained will be wasted. I mean, I'm not going to bring over my giant Martin Logans and stick 'em in here. A good argument can be made that any high end system is going to be wasted on this space anyway. So I hear what Allen is saying, only I have zero experience with HomePod, and just looking at them, it's very hard to believe that they can put out anything at all (again, I'm NOT going to be blasting music at high volume!), because especially in a furnished pretty acustically "dead" room, you need some power to make the soundwaves propagate and I can't see how HomePods can overcome this deadish room. But I also take Allen's post seriously - what now, I'm in a pickle.

In all this confusion, I almost feel like throwing up my hands and just getting the standard Yamaha hs5 pair and calling it a day. But I know I shouldn't just give up, so I'll struggle on. Thank you every one again, and I'll keep reading your discussion, as it's very informative either way!

 

[Pag46]

Ah, sorry, my mistake.
I heard of the Topping dac, they are very popular, especially for how they measure and the value for money.
I never listened to them…. For reference, I own an Audio GD R27, all-in-one R2R DAC and headphones amplifier. I love it, but as I wrote is out of scope here.

 

[Mark.g4]

How can you say that? You need a dac to convert the digital file into an analog signal. Either you use the one inside the Mac mini, or you use an external one, but there is a dac somewhere in the chain.
To me, an external one makes a huge difference. A Topping for example (never heard them to be honest) or something else, like a Chord Mojo2, or even a dongle, I am very happy with a Cayin RU6, it’s for headphones but I think you could send the output into amplified speakers.
What I use regularly would be out of scope here, I cannot recommend it.

As for the connection, usb is perfectly fine, especially for this setup, it is enough To send high res, bit perfect data to the dac, which will do its job, sending the analog signal to the amplifier inside the active speakers.
For them, I read good things about Kef, but they could be out of budget.

By the way, I use Roon as audio software, it’s amazing, I can only recommend it.

I know how painful it is to design a system like this on tight budget and lots of constraints… good luck and enkoy!

Hope this helps a bit.

He doesn't need to buy an external DAC.
The internal DAC of the new Mac mini M2 comes out in Hi-res and M2 can also drive high impedance and low sensitivity headphones.

 

[Pag46]

He doesn't need to buy an external DAC.
The internal DAC of the new Mac mini M2 comes out in Hi-res and M2 can also drive high impedance and low sensitivity headphones.

Last one, then I stop, promised.
The output of a DAC is an analog signal, nothing that can be defined as low or high-res, it is just an analog signal.
The amplifier section of the new Macs can drive high-impedance headphones, up tu 300 ohm if I’m not mistaken, which is remarkable, but the quality of an external DAC connected via usb should easily be superior to what is present inside the Mac, both for the chipset and for the electrical noise, as suggested by generdude above.

If the output of the Mac from the headphones output is enough, then great, one device less to buy. But to be honest I would do at least a back to back.

 

[Mark.g4]

You want a stereo pair of full-size HomePods for that size space. They are by far the best solution.

The reason is that one cannot realistically set up a pair of bookshelf speakers for a smallish acoustically complex space to sound really good (this from someone who for years chased high-end audiophile sound with $10k+ of hardware).

However full size HomePods (not the Minis) will auto-adjust to such a space and sound very good. The downside is that they are physically too small to drive into a very large space; but you do not have a large spce. The upside is that they are perfect for your described needs - - because I have a pair set up exactly as you describe, including the music choices. If you do not like the setup I will buy your used HomePods.

My space is an acoustically maximum difficult space. Home office at one end of 17'x30' room, with a wall of glass, a wall of brick and wood, a wall of sheetrock and various furniture. Original HomePods mounted 5' high on a wood bracket built to hold VESA brackets for three 4K displays at the back of a 3'x5' standup desk. I just plugged them in (years ago) and they self-adjusted to sound great. After years spent tweaking speakers, amps/preamps, furniture and sitting positions, what the HomePods do automatically boggles my mind.

My desk w/HomePods sits diagonally at one end of the room ~3'-4' out from the walls. I control the HomePods with Siri and it has been effortless. I never ask Siri for more than 50% volume, usually 25-40% volume. Sound is good for about the half of the space where the speakers are; i.e. ~15'x17'. Sound falls off for the other end of the room and I never overdrive the HomePods trying to fill the full room with loud sound (more than perhaps 75%). That would probably cause distortion if not speaker damage. HomePods are not big speakers.

My intent has been to get a second pair of HomePods for the other end of the room to see how it works. But I have not gotten around to it, mostly because 4 speakers defeats the stereo pair concept so I am concerned that it might disrupt the currently excellent sound.

This is a good point ed we are on the same page.
2 full size HomePod they are an excellent solution, especially for audio computation and beamforming and all the software behind it for sound optimization.

Homepods sound very good, but there are some aspects that I don't like.

1) Homepods do not handle hi-res audio, because airplay has not yet been implemented.
2) no cable connection
3) non-removable acoustic fabric-sheet
4) latency when used for watching movies
5) price

For 350$ you can purchase Magnat Supreme 202 with 10" woofer and an tube amp Aiyima T9 or any other solution that I pointed out before.

 

[Mark.g4]

Last one, then I stop, promised.
The output of a DAC is an analog signal, nothing that can be defined as low or high-res, it is just an analog signal.
The amplifier section of the new Macs can drive high-impedance headphones, up tu 300 ohm if I’m not mistaken, which is remarkable, but the quality of an external DAC connected via usb should easily be superior to what is present inside the Mac, both for the chipset and for the electrical noise, as suggested by generdude above.

If the output of the Mac from the headphones output is enough, then great, one device less to buy. But to be honest I would do at least a back to back.

Sorry for my English,
internal dac can handle hi-res music, unlike old macs.
Dac and amp section has been much improved.
Today, from M2 onwards, purchasing an external DAC makes less and less sense and usefulness compared to a few years ago.

In a listening chain, speakers and amplifiers are certainly more important.
If you change speakers you will immediately notice the difference, if you change DAC you will hardly notice it.

 

[Ben J.]

I haven't read all the fine print here, but you should definitely get the DAC. I had the Topping D50 for a year (I now have Topping E30 II), and it was a world of difference to the consumer grade audio interfaces I had been used to (Focusrite etc.). That the built in D/A conversion of a mac is enough, is BS.

Homepods??? Come on! Get real monitors, active or passive, even if it's a small space. And if it's well dampened, that's good.

About the DAC; you just plug it in, and it takes the digital output of Coreaudio and converts it to analog. The mac or macOS doesn't interfere with it in any way. No drivers, just plug 'n play.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I happen to use an audio interface for performing with music midi software. I also use it to connect my powered desktop speakers to my iMac, via USB. Mine is a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 which new costs $199.

An audio interface connected to a computer via USB can improve sound quality and audio capabilities in a few key ways:

Better Analog-to-Digital Conversion - Audio interfaces contain higher quality ADC (analog-to-digital conversion) circuitry compared to typical computer sound cards and onboard audio chips. This results in cleaner audio digitization from incoming analog signals.

Lower Latency - Audio interfaces enable audio inputs and outputs to get routed directly to the computer's processor, bypassing some conversion steps and reducing buffering. This significantly cuts down on audio latency (delay). Critical for recording and monitoring.

Enhanced Connectivity - Interfaces provide versatile input/output connectivity, like XLR, 1/4" line ins and outs, MIDI, and headphone ports to seamlessly integrate microphones, instruments, monitors, and recording gear.

Noise Reduction - Internal audio interface components and circuitry help cut down on electrical interference and added preamp noise that can compromise sound quality. So you get improved clarity and signal-to-noise ratio performance.

Software Integration - Triggers and front panel controls make it easy to integrate operation of music production software and plugins with analog sources, reducing workflow disruption.

So in summary, dedicated audio interfaces overcome computer audio limitations through better conversion quality, reduced latency, more connectivity, lower noise, and overall enhanced performance - resulting in professional grade sound capabilities

Guys, I love this community for all the knowledge, passion and helpfulness. I thank each and every one of you, and I assure you that I carefully read everything you guys post - right now I'm still going one by one through the list Mark.g4 gave - it's a long list! - so it will take me some time to digest it all.

At the same time, you can see why I said I'm overwhelmend! I am a music lover who is passionate about music (hey, my library is 2TB of files at the moment), however I'm really not much of a tech person - hence why I come here and ask silly questions. But you can imagine how confused I am - a non-techie - when smart technologically savvy folks like you have different opinions... gives a guy like me whiplash, 😅

Even when I think I understand something, I'm thrown for a loop: generdude mentions the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, judging by the price I think it's the 4th Gen. Now I've of course seen it out there, but I always associated it more with music production, whereas the Topping E50 (I'll link as Pag46 hasn't heard of them) is more of a DAC pure play (with preamp functions, filters etc.). The reason I picked the E50 is because it uses the ES9068AS chip with some outstanding specs. But now that generdude mentions Focusrite, I am thrown for a loop, it's a different device, but I have not explored in depth f.ex. what chip it uses and what the tech parameters are - perhaps I'm missing something. Very confusing. Meanwhile Pag46 has thrown out a whole another bunch of interfaces I'll have to hunt down the specs for.

Meanwhile Allen_Wentz makes a very strong case for HomePods. My office is 11' x 13' with 9' ceiling. Unfortunately I can't hang the the HomePods on the wall, as I can't hammer anything into the wall. I certainly strongly appreciate Allen's argument that given my budget limitations and listening environment high end equipment is going to be unattainable and if attained will be wasted. I mean, I'm not going to bring over my giant Martin Logans and stick 'em in here. A good argument can be made that any high end system is going to be wasted on this space anyway. So I hear what Allen is saying, only I have zero experience with HomePod, and just looking at them, it's very hard to believe that they can put out anything at all (again, I'm NOT going to be blasting music at high volume!), because especially in a furnished pretty acustically "dead" room, you need some power to make the soundwaves propagate and I can't see how HomePods can overcome this deadish room. But I also take Allen's post seriously - what now, I'm in a pickle.

In all this confusion, I almost feel like throwing up my hands and just getting the standard Yamaha hs5 pair and calling it a day. But I know I shouldn't just give up, so I'll struggle on. Thank you every one again, and I'll keep reading your discussion, as it's very informative either way!

It sounds like you may have looked at the Mini HomePods, which IMO are not acceptable. The full size (~7") HomePods are bookshelf size but IMO almost all speakers will sound better mounted like mine, out from the wall. And they are strong enough for the room you describe with the listening you describe. My space is 2x as large also with 9' ceiling and deadening furniture (plus glass!), and the full size HomePod stereo pair makes good sound out 13'x15' easily.

Before purchasing I too felt "I can't see how HomePods can overcome this room." Just try them; Apple has easy return policy. I only use mine with Apple Music (jazz/rock/classical), so I cannot comment on latency relative to games or NetFlix. As to handling "lossless" or other high end sourcing my substantial experience suggests that any kind of normal coarse listening environment transcends those details.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Last one, then I stop, promised.
The output of a DAC is an analog signal, nothing that can be defined as low or high-res, it is just an analog signal.
The amplifier section of the new Macs can drive high-impedance headphones, up tu 300 ohm if I’m not mistaken, which is remarkable, but the quality of an external DAC connected via usb should easily be superior to what is present inside the Mac, both for the chipset and for the electrical noise, as suggested by generdude above.

If the output of the Mac from the headphones output is enough, then great, one device less to buy. But to be honest I would do at least a back to back.

I have a $200 Topping DAC / headphone amp and an SMSL amp for my passive desktop speakers (a pair of KEFs). I've done plenty of side-by-side trials comparing the output through the headphone jack from my M1 MacBook Pro and the Topping DAC. I can't tell a difference in quality through my various headphones or if I run my laptop to the amp through the Topping DAC or through Apple's internal DAC. It's going to be a very specialized setup where anything fancier than what Apple has inside their computers is going to matter.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I haven't read all the fine print here, but you should definitely get the DAC. I had the Topping D50 for a year (I now have Topping E30 II), and it was a world of difference to the consumer grade audio interfaces I had been used to (Focusrite etc.). That the built in D/A conversion of a mac is enough, is BS.

Homepods??? Come on! Get real monitors, active or passive, even if it's a small space. And if it's well dampened, that's good.

About the DAC; you just plug it in, and it takes the digital output of Coreaudio and converts it to analog. The mac or macOS doesn't interfere with it in any way. No drivers, just plug 'n play.

I have a similar setup (but a Topping DX3Pro+ and a SMSL A300). As much as I like this setup, the external DAC is not appreciably better than what Apple has built in. I've done many side-by-side comparisons and can't tell a difference with headphones (Senn HD650, HiFiMan HE400SE, and more) or with my KEF Q50 speakers.

I'd wager the vast majority of people could not tell a difference in randomized, double-blinded trials.

I think a nice at least basic amp and passive speakers would be preferable to a couple HomePods.

Or, Klipsch The Fives would be great. I also have a set of Edifier actives that are really good (I moved on from them because I wanted larger speakers and a subwoofer).

 

[Ben J.]

I have a similar setup (but a Topping DX3Pro+ and a SMSL A300). As much as I like this setup, the external DAC is not appreciably better than what Apple has built in. I've done many side-by-side comparisons and can't tell a difference with headphones (Senn HD650, HiFiMan HE400SE, and more) or with my KEF Q50 speakers.

I'd wager the vast majority of people could not tell a difference in randomized, double-blinded trials.

I think a nice at least basic amp and passive speakers would be preferable to a couple HomePods.

Or, Klipsch The Fives would be great. I also have a set of Edifier actives that are really good (I moved on from them because I wanted larger speakers and a subwoofer).

What can I say, I'm listening to my Dynaudio BM6 passives, that I've had for over two decades as main studio monitors driven by a Sony TA-FA30ES and I can clearly hear the differences in DAC quality. I've tried many over the years.

 

[OldCorpse]

OK, one other thing I have to confess - and this confession might get me banned from this forum, so ahead of time I beg for mercy. Sooo, there is another reason why I originally thought of a DAC - because I can easily see how there may not be much sonic difference to an average ear on budget speakers between a DAC and and just barebacking it straight from the m2 mini. Here comes: basically, I look at the DAC as an expensive dongle - it has a ton of inputs and outputs, so that allows me to consider any kind of connections from the speakers. What if the speakers *only* have particular inputs and *need* OPT or TRS, XLR, RCA balanced, unbalanced whatnot. Hey, just pass through the DAC Topping E50, and that way you don't have to worry about adapters to connect the speakers to the mini or possible impact of these rube goldberg adapters on the SQ, because all the output is going to the speaker from the DAC and the DAC is getting it optimally from the mini. And if the DAC can add something in SQ in the process, hey, that's icing on the cake, but not something I was counting on. Second, and now this is REALLY petty, the Topping E50 has a nice remote which can control a lot of stuff including volume - many speakers (most?) don't have a remote, and it's a lot more convenient than trying to rig something through the mini or my MBA/iPad.

Sorry, I know that's outrageous, so I apologize profusely, but yeah, I'm not fully rational when it comes to equipment... again, my apologies.

 

[Mark.g4]

the cables you need cost less than $10 for jbl305.

you don't need adapters.

if you want to get into any amplifier

Of course an external DAC improves the audio quality, if you can hear it, because I have a lot of difficulty to hear it.
Certainly if you invest the money allocated for the DAC on the speakers, you will obtain a much more tangible improvement.

The speakers are the aspect that makes the most difference.
So your attention must be on the speakers and amplifier, everything else comes later.

$250 on a DAC gives you a small improvement in listening.
Going from a $300 speaker to a $550 one can make a huge difference and anyone will be able to hear this difference and will be able to hear it well.