Spotify CEO on Apple and Google: 'If You Want to Be the Referee, You Can't Also Be the Player'

[Unregistered 4U]

Earlier I posted this chart... and later I remembered something interesting:

As we can see... Spotify had an amazing growth in paid subscribers from 2016 to 2022 to become the largest music streaming service in the world today.

But do you wanna know a fun fact about Spotify in 2016? That's when Spotify stopped allowing new users subscribe to Spotify Premium in the Apple App Store.

Spotify gained all these new paid subscribers on both Android and iOS... but they were not giving 30% to Apple. People had to somehow navigate to the Spotify website to sign up.

In other words...

1. Spotify wasn't paying the "Apple Tax" on new subscribers after 2016. No in-app purchase, no 30% cut.
2. Having people take that awkward extra step to sign up outside the app clearly wasn't the impediment Spotify claims it is. Look at the chart... people obviously found their way.

So I'm really having a hard time feeling sorry for Spotify with their "Apple is mean to us" claims.

I want to see the part before 2016 Maybe there’s a part of the curve that exposes why he wants to be on the App Store again sooooooooooooooo bad.

 

[Hails09]

Apple moved the goalposts? Apple’s rules have always been Apple’s rules. From the first day Spotify created their app, anti-steering was there, 30% was there and Spotify was like OHHHHHHKAY! Where do we sign? This is an arrangement we desperately want to be a part of!

Why don’t you read into it instead of following the Apple PR line.
Like they where happy with the 30% so was going to charge 12.99 then apple deliberately made their app cheaper as to under cut Spotify because they are not held to the same 30% cut.
Then the consistent tightening of app restrictions as Apple was about to launch their own app.
Why would the Spotify ceo tell lies
When they are fighting this in the European Union?

 

[JamesHolden]

A customer that patronizes WalMart is a customer of WalMart, WalMart’s customer.
Vendors engage with and provide goods to WalMart in order to be presented to WalMart’s customers.

A customer that patronizes “X town Mall” is a customer of “X town Mall”, “X town Mall”’s customer.
Companies open stores in “X town Mall” in order to be presented to “X town Mall”’s customers.

Just because the word “Apple” is added in a phrase doesn’t change the terminology of business. Although it’s clear some really wish it weren’t true.

I think we need to stop comparing a computing platform that billions of people use to a store or mall. It's disingenuous. A brick and mortar store is really nothing like the App Store, nor is the brick and mortar market (ie: society at large) anything like the iOS/Android duopoly.

 

[JamesHolden]

Of course they did. Not possible now in many places. People used to pay 10 cents for a chocolate bar. What does that have to do with October 2023? Perhaps you live in the US where you are used to and forced to use antiquated banking and store payment systems.

Lol. Last time I checked, cash is accepted everywhere world-wide. Everything is still possible without a smart phone. It might be more of a pain. It might require you to spend more of your time dealing with the issue at hand. But it's all doable.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Why would the Spotify ceo tell lies

Because it serves his interest to tell lies. He would do absolutely ANYTHING at this point to get access to those people that frequently do business with the App Store without having to pay for it, including lie.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I think we need to stop comparing a computing platform that billions of people use to a store or mall. It's disingenuous. A brick and mortar store is really nothing like the App Store, nor is the brick and mortar market (ie: society at large) anything like the iOS/Android duopoly.

Stores and malls make profits.
Companies all over the world make profits.
Apple makes profits.

Ah, I see where one statement is disagreeable, but the other ones are fine. I think it has something to do with that “A” word.

Today I Learned 240 million people a week shop at WalMart. That’s 12 billion a year. Yeah, we need to stop comparing billions of customers to billions of customers.

 

[JamesHolden]

Stores and malls make profits.
Companies all over the world make profits.
Apple makes profits.

Ah, I see where one statement is disagreeable, but the other ones are fine. I think it has something to do with that “A” word.

None of which is the point.

When it comes to smart phones, there is a duopoly. The consumer has very little choice. Over 6 billion people use smart phones on the planet. We need to be very careful not to allow one or two corporations to have total control over something that is quickly becoming essential to society. We regulate certain markets for good reason.

When it comes to the "A" word, the only thing I see a bunch of religious-zealot level fans who have lost the ability to think critically. Thankfully their opinions don't matter beyond fan forum walls.

As someone who has been an Apple fan and customer for over 40 years, I find it interesting how much Apple fandom has changed. I don't ever remember Apple fans talking about "profit", even caring about it, back in the 80s and 90s. We talked about ideas, about technology. Now fan sites are full of parrots crying "profit" all day long.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

When it comes to smart phones, there is a duopoly. The consumer has very little choice. Over 6 billion people use smart phones on the planet. We need to be very careful not to allow one or two corporations to have total control over something that is quickly becoming essential to society. We regulate certain markets for good reason.

Regulating that Apple and Google are the ONLY mobile OS’s in the world will lead to Apple and Google remaining the only mobile OS’s in the world. I’ve read very little that would do different.

When it comes to the "A" word, the only thing I see a bunch of religious-zealot level fans who have lost the ability to think critically. Thankfully their opinions don't matter beyond fan forum walls.

Some folks favor the nationalization of private companies, some have lost the ability to think critically.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I don't ever remember Apple fans talking about "profit", even caring about it, back in the 80s and 90s.

How old were you in the 80s and 90s? Because I assure you, there were folks talking about profits.

 

[webkit]

Today I Learned 240 million people a week shop at WalMart. That’s 12 billion a year. Yeah, we need to stop comparing billions of customers to billions of customers.

But Walmart doesn't have "billions" of individual unique customers, they have billions of visits a year by maybe a few hundred million individual unique customers. Walmart is just one of MANY MANY chain and local retail stores out there.

That's very different than the smartphone market which reportedly has more than 6 billion unique users with mobile OS being divided between just two major players: iOS and Android.

Regulating that Apple and Google are the ONLY mobile OS’s in the world will lead to Apple and Google remaining the only mobile OS’s in the world. I’ve read very little that would do different.

Who is regulating that Apple and Google be the only mobile OS in the world?

 

[Expos of 1969]

Ok, then say “required for folks that travel internationally”. Absolutely not required for everyone.

Some folks are having reading comprehension problems tonight it seems.

Lol. Last time I checked, cash is accepted everywhere world-wide. Everything is still possible without a smart phone. It might be more of a pain. It might require you to spend more of your time dealing with the issue at hand. But it's all doable.

James, you are so far off base. Wow...

 

[jimbobb24]

If you charge $10/month for your music service, it is anticompetitive to take 30% of your competitors $10/month music service.

If you owned a store in a mall selling (price-controlled) Rolexes and the mall opened their own store next door to you selling the same Rolexes, you'd cry foul.

But the mall analogy still isn't as bad as the App Store... The mall does incur lost revenue (not leasing finite space to another tenant) with their own store where Apple does not. And you can at least move malls.

Literally Kroger does this exactly. They sell their competitors product next to their own and make money at both. The retail example isn't a good one, but it doesn't support your position.

 

[JamesHolden]

Some folks are having reading comprehension problems tonight it seems.

James, you are so far off base. Wow...

Educate me.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Educate me.

No thanks.

 

[JamesHolden]

How old were you in the 80s and 90s? Because I assure you, there were folks talking about profits.

Yeah, the Microsoft fans. Microsoft fans were always talking about how much money Microsoft made, how much marketshare Windows had, etc. Apple fans were talking about technology, about ideas, about how to make the world better.

Not so much anymore.

Now it's just "profit profit profit" from the Apple fans all day long, it's just "Apple can do whatever it wants, don't like it, buy an Android" nonsense all day long. I look at this site and maybe 10% of the people who post here actually want to have meaningful discussions. The other 90% just want to act tribal.

 

[JamesHolden]

No thanks.

If you can't cite examples and counter my comment, your pithy opinion is meaningless.

 

[gregmancuso]

Your second line sounds like an argument Apple wants to make. But I think Spotify and Epic would argue that video game consoles are a fundamentally different market with different business models where the hardware manufacturer takes a loss on the hardware to make money on the software.

Assuming the game consoles truly are sold at a loss, which I doubt given pricing and backlogs people face trying to buy them, WHO CARES?

Let's assume the consoles are in fact sold at a loss, why does that mean that 30% cut for sales and IAP is more warranted than Apple's 30% cut. If tomorrow Apple implemented a 50% cut on MSRP of iPhones and iPads would these developers all of a sudden be OK with at 30% cut from the App Store? I'd bet not.

 

[cocky jeremy]

We all know that’s not the reason
The intensity of Apple’s restrictions started to change after Apple acquired a rival music streaming service and prepared to launch Apple Music, which was many years after Spotify brought music streaming to fans around the world. Faced with established competitors like Spotify, Apple started to aggressively move the goalposts of compliance with App Store rules to disadvantage rivals like us in favor of their own services.

They can feel free to make their own phones and app stores. Nothing is stopping them.

 

[cocky jeremy]

And that’s why it’s anti competitive
Because Apple now has their own music app that’s not held to the same standards.

So, just don't allow spotify anymore then. Problem solved.

 

[jjwwqq]

The 30% commission Apple charges in the App Store is insane. if you sell your house with a real estate agent, what do you pay - anywhere from 2% - 8%?

 

[mrochester]

But Walmart doesn't have "billions" of individual unique customers, they have billions of visits a year by maybe a few hundred million individual unique customers. Walmart is just one of MANY MANY chain and local retail stores out there.

That's very different than the smartphone market which reportedly has more than 6 billion unique users with mobile OS being divided between just two major players: iOS and Android.





Who is regulating that Apple and Google be the only mobile OS in the world?

No one is regulating to stop iOS and Android being the only mobile OSes in the world.

 

[Hails09]

Because it serves his interest to tell lies. He would do absolutely ANYTHING at this point to get access to those people that frequently do business with the App Store without having to pay for it, including lie.

Why would he tell lies when he’s been to the European Union commission about
Apple anti steering requirements and they would ask for evidence.
Hence the initial ruling in February focusing on in app purchases on iOS

 

[Hails09]

It’s not in Apple’s interest to ban the Spotify app.
Number 1 it doesn’t look good for a start just banning someone for no legitimate reason.
Number 2 it brings their questionable rules & anti competitive behaviour allegations to light.

 

[gregmancuso]

What so if a biscuit company wants to add ingredients to their item or change the colour of the packaging.
The grocery store approves that in advance?

This is getting to be a bit of a stretch, but yes.

Suppose the grocer is a brand that lives a "healthy-fit" ethos. Said biscuit maker has been on the shelves since day one. But now has changed the recipe and added ingredients that are demonstratively unhealthy or downright dangerous. The grocer is most certainly going to pull your biscuits from the shelves and show you the door. Or demand you sell the original product in their store.

No different than blocking an update to an app update that adds "features" that violate policies.

 

[chandler55]

As we can see... Spotify had an amazing growth in paid subscribers from 2016 to 2022 to become the largest music streaming service in the world today.

this just means they succeeded in spite of the problems they face