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That’s up to the person on the receiving end though isn’t it.


I am not owned by Apple for them to control access to. As I’ve said previously, I will entertain monetary offers if Apple would like to set something up. Spotify pays the ADP fee for the development tools. As for everything else, Apple is the one choosing to force developers to go through them for things like distribution.
There’s so much that’s wrong with this statement. Developers choose Apple because of distribution (to a market of 2B+ devices). That’s why Spotify chose them in the first place. Now that they’ve become successful they want to demolish the agreement they signed for their own benefit and to the detriment of the vast majority of users and other developers.
 
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What you don’t seem to understand is that a large reason the vast majority Apple’s customers (to be clear, not talking about people who post on MacRumors here, but normal consumers) are willing to spend on apps is because Apple made the App Store a trustworthy place to buy software, and now that customers are used to buying software BECAUSE the App Store provided a safe and secure place to do so, people like you come around say Apple is rent seeking, provides no value to developers, etc.
 
There’s so much that’s wrong with this statement. Developers choose Apple because of distribution (to a market of 2B+ devices).
Other than Apple choosing to block access to the users other than through their sole distribution channel (well formerly in the EU anyway lol) developers do not need Apple to distribute apps for them. Many may very well choose to go that route, but there’s no reason it needs to be required to reach iOS users. Developers choose to go to where they can reach the most users, including iOS. The issue arises when Apple forces devs to go through them to access those iOS users. Lots of developers choose to develop for Windows, but MS doesn’t require distribution through them. Same with macOS in fact.
 
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What you don’t seem to understand is that a large reason the vast majority Apple’s customers (to be clear, not talking about people who post on MacRumors here, but normal consumers) are willing to spend on apps is because Apple made the App Store a trustworthy place to buy software, and now that customers are used to buying software BECAUSE the App Store provided a safe and secure place to do so, people like you come around say Apple is rent seeking, provides no value to developers, etc.

Please cite your sources for this. This reads like Apple PR copy.
 
Lots of developers choose to develop for Windows, but MS doesnt require distribution through them. Same with macOS in fact.
And because of that Windows is filled with malware. Something that MacOS has mostly avoided primarily because the number of users is so much smaller that it doesn’t make developing viruses, Trojans, etc. worth the bad guys’ time. That absolutely won’t be the case with iOS.
 
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Hmm .. You consider providing access to a market of 2B+ devices, higher income and higher spending consumers + development tools that simplify development, maintenance and distribution of secure software to those consumers dubious value? 🤔
For my app, the difference between iOS and Android revenue is more like 20/1.

New accounts are 5/1 for iOS (no subscription, just creating an account to use the free option).

Granted the iOS app is older, but this holds true for new paid subs as well with iOS outpacing Android there by 15/1.

So who is bringing the value?
 
That’s up to the person on the receiving end though isn’t it.
The person “receiving” is Spotify, not you. Your claim was Apple supposedly “rent seeking” from Spotify.

That’s definitely not true, as there is clear value provided to Spotify from Apple’s work.

Now we know Spotify wants that for free — Apple doesn’t agree. That’s business!
 
Yes I was born in 1980.
Great, so you are my age. Do you not remember how hosed Windows computers were all the time? Again, here is the former head of Windows and Office talking about the DMA. I keep quoting him because 1) I hope people realize he’s not an Apple fanboy given his career and 2) He does a really good job of explaining why the DMA is such a bad idea. I just wish it was 10,000 words shorter. I really encourage you to read the whole thing if you can, or at the very least, run it through an AI summarizer.


This promise of safety and security was a landmark and step-function improvement in computing. One of the key benefits was you could simply march through the App Store and without fear try any app instantly. You didn’t need to worry about DLL-hell, corrupting the registry, uninstall leaving garbage behind, or an app installing some nefarious capability that might monitor everything happening on your phone. By contrast on a PC or Mac without a store and without constraints of a sand box, your entire PC is at risk every time you download software from the internet.
[…]
It is difficult to overstate how beneficial this brand promise was for developers. The market this opened was enormous. People like to say things like “I know my parents can use the App Store” but that is an ageist way to say that normal people can just use a vast array of software without even thinking about potentially horking their PC. It was an appliance experience.
 
The person “receiving” is Spotify, not you. Your claim was Apple supposedly “rent seeking” from Spotify.

That’s definitely not true, as there is clear value provided to Spotify from Apple’s work.

Now we know Spotify wants that for free — Apple doesn’t agree. That’s business!
And I think it’s clear from Spotify’s frequent public statements what their position as the receiver is lmao.
 
Great, so you are my age. Do you not remember how hosed Windows computers were all the time? Again, here is the former head of Windows and Office talking about the DMA. I keep quoting him because 1) I hope people realize he’s not an Apple fanboy given his career and 2) He does a really good job of explaining why the DMA is such a bad idea. I just wish it was 10,000 words shorter. I really encourage you to read the whole thing if you can, or at the very least, run it through an AI summarizer.



[…]

Sinofsky really does talk absolute drivel. His over dramatic takes on this on Twitter were laughable, I'll save myself the trouble of reading them in long form. I'm sure he mentions how terrible it was dealing with the EU during the Vista years.

90s/00s Microsoft execs defending Apple says it all honestly.
 
Do you apparently believe that all of this, simply taken at face value, means Apple deserves a 30% cut from Spotify in perpetuity or otherwise be allowed to add friction between a direct competitor and their (potential) customers.
As I said earlier the Apple App Store does not sell Spotify subscriptions so it takes 30% of nothing.
 
Spotify & Ek needs to go pound sand at this point. Their whining is especially rich considering they have the monopoly on streaming music, not Apple.
 
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Baloney. Spotify and Epic want access to over a billion iPhone users without paying a red cent to Apple for that access. Both are acting like the dicks that run them.
It's a app Spotify created
Just a web app, have nothing to do with apple. So apple should mind there own business. And approve even if you yourself wants to make a app.
On my windows I get notification when I can get Spotify 3 months for 10 euro.
Not sure how apple works but sounds bad they have power over just a webapp
 
Sinofsky really does talk absolute drivel. His over dramatic takes on this on Twitter were laughable, I'll save myself the trouble of reading them in long form. I'm sure he mentions how terrible it was dealing with the EU during the Vista years.

90s/00s Microsoft execs defending Apple says it all honestly.
Wow. That’s pretty dismissive of someone without vested interest and who knows infinitely more than anyone in this conversation about the subject.
 
It's a app Spotify created
Just a web app, have nothing to do with apple. So apple should mind there own business. And approve even if you yourself wants to make a app.
On my windows I get notification when I can get Spotify 3 months for 10 euro.
Not sure how apple works but sounds bad they have power over just a webapp
Welcome to the discussion. It is actually about an iOS app that Spotify launched for the iPhone on the Apple AppStore in 2009 and agreed to abide by Apple’s guidelines for apps distributed through the AppStore. At the time Spotify was losing money, but the iPhone app and Apple AppStore helped them to grow and improve profitability. So this issue and discussion is definitely NOT about a web app. Do these facts alter your perspective?
 
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As I said earlier the Apple App Store does not sell Spotify subscriptions so it takes 30% of nothing.
This only serves to draw attention to the anti-competitive alternative to paying Apple’s toll which is forcing competitors to add friction with their customers. Not sure why you think this is a counter-argument to the purpose and value of the DMA. It’s exactly the kind of thing that’s being mitigated.

Ah yes, failing company tries to blame Apple for their failure 😂

If there is no value in the App Store, its customers or iOS APIs, then Spotify should go 100% web app — easy peasy 😉
It’s up to Spotify to determine the value of those things. Until the DMA Apple forced iOS developers into using their resources, just to reach iOS users.
 
It’s up to Spotify to determine the value of those things. Until the DMA Apple forced iOS developers into using their resources, just to reach iOS users.
What??? So Spotify can use the App Store, reach its customers, use Apple APIs, and just "determine the value of those things" is zero?

What universe does that make sense in? Clearly they determined that they *wanted those things of value*, so they agreed to the "Reader" requirement of no in app ads for your own payment service. And they still somehow managed to get subscribers (remember, the web is the *best* most openest way to get apps and services, or so I've heard here).

Now they not only want all "those things of value" from Apple, but lobbied the EU for free ads in their app.

Crazy stuff!
 
Bingo. So the iPhone was essential to Spotify‘s development and success.
If we're playing the "they invented it so everyone owes the inventor" then Apple owes everything it makes to Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Edison. How far to do want to take it? Apple made something. IBM made a PC. So all PC software developers should pay IBM? Oh, but wait...Apple made Mac but Mac software developers don't owe Apple anything, right? This gets interesting...and your logic falls apart.
 
No one is saying you can't speak up for Apple. But it's rather strange to speak up for the one of the biggest corporations of the world. Do they really need defending?

To me it makes more sense when users/consumers speak for themselves for their needs and wishes. And wishing not having DMA is somewhat weird when you're not getting one in your country in the first place - and there's no discussion about it either as you yourself noted...

Also I stand behind my claim, that non-EU crowd seems to be most vocal in the DMA thing. And that's just ridiculous when it's not affecting them the slightest.
Right is right and wrong is wrong.

Regardless, I guess this is the sort of discussion that will dominate the Macrumours message boards for the rest of the decade. Can't say it's really my cup of tea.

To set the proper context, one needs to remember that for the last decade, Apple was positioned as one iPhone update away from implosion. Low market and sales share (relative to Android) were paraded around as signs of an incompetent product strategy. Simply put, Apple was framed as being weak and vulnerable, dependent on revenue sources that could disappear overnight due to consumers fleeing to the competition.

This was the sort of clickbait that dominated tech blogs and news headlines, and people lapped it up. Instead, Apple went on to defy all criticism and conventional wisdom to become the trillion dollar company it is today.

Today, that narrative has completely shifted, because it's clear that talk of Apple having "lost its way" simply wasn't working anymore. Everyone and their mother is now infatuated with Apple’s power, its ironclad grip over the App Store, and the idea that Apple users are stuck or imprisoned in a massive walled garden where things like iMessage, Apple Watches, and AirPods force people to remain within Apple’s walls. Government regulators are viewed as the only entity capable of protecting Apple users from Apple (we saw this as early as the Epic trial in 2020).

Every inch of ground that Apple gives up in order to accommodate the DMA is interpreted as them being humiliated and "put in their proper place", as though it somehow makes up for the last 10+ years of having been wrong about what makes Apple tick. I don't think that many people here are genuinely interested in the merits and pitfalls of the DMA (how many here are even impacted by it?). They just want to see Apple proven wrong and being humbled.

Thinking that Apple users are somehow being forced against their will to buy products like Apple Watches or subscribe to Apple Music is nothing more than competitors such as Spotify looking for someone to blame for market failures when the problem is found internally with a bad vision, inadequate corporate culture, and lack of understanding as to what makes Apple unique.

While the CEOs of companies like Epic and Spotify shooting their mouths off do make for juicy headlines capable of grabbing people’s attention, I am confident that they won’t play a major role in Apple’s future. Apple will continue to develop a dynamic ecosystem consisting of great experiences that customers are willing to pay for. Meanwhile, I simply don't see a route to Spotify being profitable anytime soon, if ever, and nothing in the DMA looks like it will remedy this.

Apple will continue to be its biggest competitor. Keep that in mind the next time anyone here feels tempted to utter the hackneyed phrase "more competition is good for the customer". 😉
 
Typical BS from someone that sees Apple as some sort of God. The fact is, without apps, the iPhone would be a useless piece of crap rusting in the landfills. It's because of apps that the iPhone still exists. Apple should be bending over backwards to make developers happy. Why Apple should get a dime from Spotify when they do nothing is beyond me.
Your post actually qualifies as the BS. Throughout recorded time, if you want to sell your wares through a store owned by someone else, they always get a cut. How much of a cut, we can debate, but they always get a cut. And saying Apple does “nothing” is beyond ignorant— they built and run the App Store which is digital infrastructure that requires physical infrastructure and money to maintain, not to mention they build the hardware that enables said apps.
 
If we're playing the "they invented it so everyone owes the inventor" then Apple owes everything it makes to Alexander Graham Bell and Thomas Edison. How far to do want to take it? Apple made something. IBM made a PC. So all PC software developers should pay IBM? Oh, but wait...Apple made Mac but Mac software developers don't owe Apple anything, right? This gets interesting...and your logic falls apart.
Different devices with different business models.

This has been argued *to death* already.

Please keep up!
 
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