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How about some examples (beyond vape & porn, already discussed) that you’re missing?

Sure, freedom to install whatever is cool, but I’m still wondering what it is you’re missing?

Are there any apps you think the EU or your county’s government would prohibit?
Of course.

Browsers with proper rendering core, emulators (not just game console emulators but UTM for instance which can emulate full operating systems), mild nudity adventure games (Leisure Suit Larry comes to mind), BAC meters, modded apps (apps with custom patches).

All mentioned is perfectly legal in my country.
 
No, I meant Apple and I'm pretty clear in that. I don't defend any corporation. I defend my rights and freedom of choice. Same can't be said about Apple defenders and apologists.



Of course. Again, I'm not defending the EU. I'm defending my rights which EU extends by the DMA. So you're wrong there. Maybe read my message again?



Fortunately I'm not one of them. I remember when I could download and install .sis files from whatever source I wanted. And no organization (Apple) would censor what I can or can not install on my device.

Cost of the SDK? You mean what both Microsoft and Google offers for free? Oh and Nokia with its Symbian also gave developers for free. So yeah, its not standard to offer mobile platform's SDK for the Apple prices. (not talking about gaming consoles, that's separate category there)

So again, you're wrong. Maybe you're too young to remember? Or maybe you're not the developer yourself?


What? That's just obvious argumentation failure right there. It's completely unrelated to the DMA.



If you're sick of it, just don't react. If you're not EU citizen - great news! It's not even affecting you as I already said in my previous post.

Yeah, I'm sick of people getting angry at DMA when it's not related to their country and when it's not affecting them at all. Just ignore it a live on. Easy as that. Instead you choose to get angry and reply to my post - pretty weird indeed.
It affects us! Less secure OS, more engineering resources spent trying to appease bureaucrats who want to turn iOS into android because they don’t understand what they regulate, fewer features iOS customers actually want.

Go get a Pixel or a Galaxy phone - clearly they are more aligned with your needs.
 
Agree.

It is unreasonable though to conclude that it could not have occurred with the iPhone. They could have developed for Android earlier instead. Seems Spotify correctly identified the benefit to be on mobile platforms and chose to develop their app for the most commercially successful one early on?

You could say iOS was instrumental to their success - but not essential.


So you’ll probably to stay on Apple’s App Store?
No problem then. It’s not as if that would close or anything.
I agree. Spotify could possibly have launched on Android. And they could possibly have enjoyed the same success as they did on the iPhone. That does not change the fact that despite Android being available Spotify chose to launch on iPhone. The implication of that decision is that the iPhone offered greater benefit than Android and Spotify made the rational and historically validated decision to launch on the iPhone platform — because it was more beneficial to its business than Android despite Apple’s control-oriented platform governance ethos.
 
It affects us! Less secure OS, more engineering resources spent trying to appease bureaucrats who want to turn iOS into android because they don’t understand what they regulate, fewer features iOS customers actually want.

Go get a Pixel or a Galaxy phone - clearly they are more aligned with your needs.
The argument about “engineering resources” kind of goes out the window when Cook just cost the company half a billion dollars.
 
I agree. Spotify could possibly have launched on Android. And they could possibly have enjoyed the same success as they did on the iPhone. That does not change the fact that despite Android being available Spotify chose to launch on iPhone. The implication of that decision is that the iPhone offered greater benefit than Android and Spotify made the rational and historically validated decision to launch on the iPhone platform — because it was more beneficial to its business than Android despite Apple’s control-oriented platform governance ethos.
Do you apparently believe that all of this, simply taken at face value, means Apple deserves a 30% cut from Spotify in perpetuity or otherwise be allowed to add friction between a direct competitor and their (potential) customers.
 
The argument about “engineering resources” kind of goes out the window when Cook just cost the company half a billion dollars.

You can’t always just throw money or manpower at an issue. There are team considerations, culture considerations, etc. That’s before you get into things like increased bugs, more edge cases, attention spent on this stuff instead of more valuable features.

Also, assuming Cook is solely responsible for that settlement (which, as someone who works closely with executives I find HIGHLY unlikely) - pretty sure he’s created way, way, way more value for Apple than a day and a half of profits.
 
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Do you apparently believe that all of this, simply taken at face value, means Apple deserves a 30% cut from Spotify in perpetuity or otherwise be allowed to add friction between a direct competitor and their (potential) customers.
If they use App Store in app purchase, it’s 30% first year and 15% thereafter, so stop with the lies.

They chose not to use this, but still want free advertising in their app utilizing all the benefits of the App Store.

I understand they are a “competitor” (of sorts) but they still choose to build an app for the App Store, and they knew the rules.

They don’t seem to lack subscribers - profits on the other hand 😬
 
It affects us! Less secure OS, more engineering resources spent trying to appease bureaucrats who want to turn iOS into android because they don’t understand what they regulate, fewer features iOS customers actually want.

Go get a Pixel or a Galaxy phone - clearly they are more aligned with your needs.
That's lies. For the US customers, the most vocal guys in the DMA discussion it changes literally nothing.

As for the EU customers - it does not change the security at all of you decide to ignore alternative app stores completely. It's an optional feature.

Please don't say me what should I get. Alternate app stores is not number one priority for me, so iPhone still suits me better.
 
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You can’t always just throw money or manpower at an issue. There are team considerations, culture considerations, etc. That’s before you get into things like increased bugs, more edge cases, attention spent on this stuff instead of more valuable features.

Also, assuming Cook is solely responsible for that settlement (which, as someone who works closely with executives I find HIGHLY unlikely) - pretty sure he’s created way, way, way more value for Apple than a day and a half of profits.
Those are certainly your suppositions anyway.

If they use App Store in app purchase, it’s 30% first year and 15% thereafter, so stop with the lies.

They chose not to use this, but still want free advertising in their app utilizing all the benefits of the App Store.

I understand they are a “competitor” (of sorts) but they still choose to build an app for the App Store, and they knew the rules.

They don’t seem to lack subscribers - profits on the other hand 😬
Whether 15% or 30%, it doesn’t matter. And those rules you refer to are no longer legal for a reason. The EU seems to take a rather dim view of rent seeking behavior.
 
Do you apparently believe that all of this, simply taken at face value, means Apple deserves a 30% cut from Spotify in perpetuity or otherwise be allowed to add friction between a direct competitor and their (potential) customers.
That was the agreement that Spotify voluntarily signed. No one forced them to. And of course they have the right to try and negotiate a better deal now if they want one. And Apple likewise has the right to accept proposed terms or not. And if they cannot agree, Spotify has multiple alternatives and can take their business elsewhere.
 
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That was the agreement that Spotify voluntarily signed. No one forced them to. And of course they have the right to try and negotiate a better deal now if they want one. And Apple likewise has the right to accept proposed terms or not. And if they cannot agree, Spotify has multiple alternatives and can take their business elsewhere.
Fortunately this is no longer the case in the EU.

It's the other way around. Apple has to accept EU terms or they can bring their business elsewhere.
 
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That's lies. For the US customers, the most vocal guys in the DMA discussion it changes literally nothing.

As for the EU customers - it does not change the security at all of you decide to ignore alternative app stores completely. It's an optional feature.

Please don't say me what should I get. Alternate app stores is not number one priority for me, so iPhone still suits me better.

I’ll quote the former head of Windows and Office:

There are three issues. First, you won’t be able to ignore these choices because you never know when they will pop up as new potential defaults from an app you downloaded. You might also be directed to use a third-party store because your medical provider, government service, or bank decided they want to build an app with features that are not permitted in the Apple App Store. Then it won’t be optional.

Second, and this is the point that means the most to me, is that choice is good, but the DMA has removed the choice in the market that was the iPhone as we knew it and replaced it with an entirely different choice with quite a few potential problems I now need to worry about. I can’t simply ignore the choice.

And third, all this code is in the system now. I’m too much of a former engineer to know that all these boundary cases will absolutely lessen the robustness of a system. As I said, we spent (and I’m sure the teams continue to spend) a significant amount of energy finding, fixing, and coping with bugs. The cost of DMA is now ongoing and will certainly monotonically increase for all so-called gatekeepers and gatekeepers to be. There’s no escaping that this cost will impact our experience.

I’d encourage everyone to read the whole thing, but it’s VERY long. But I’d be shocked if it didn’t change at least some of your minds.
 
Of course.

Browsers with proper rendering core, emulators (not just game console emulators but UTM for instance which can emulate full operating systems), mild nudity adventure games (Leisure Suit Larry comes to mind), BAC meters, modded apps (apps with custom patches).

All mentioned is perfectly legal in my country.
Cool, well I hope someone supplies all those apps for you!

Not sure it warrants EU intervention when there are plenty of other ways to enjoy those experiences 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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That was the agreement that Spotify voluntarily signed. No one forced them to. And of course they have the right to try and negotiate a better deal now if they want one. And Apple likewise has the right to accept proposed terms or not. And if they cannot agree, Spotify has multiple alternatives and can take their business elsewhere.
Signed under duress perhaps, since there are no viable alternatives to reaching iOS users.

Man, I can’t fathom why the EU would have such a problem with Apple’s practices. /s

Apple can take their business out of the EU if they have a problem with how they run their markets.
 
Fortunately this is no longer the case in the EU.

It's the other way around. Apple has to accept EU terms or they can bring their business elsewhere.
So its good we have governments running the companies now?
 
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Those are certainly your suppositions anyway.


Whether 15% or 30%, it doesn’t matter. And those rules you refer to are no longer legal for a reason. The EU seems to take a rather dim view of rent seeking behavior.
Indeed, nothing much seems to matter in these “regulations”.

Please refresh yourself on the term “rent seeking” as it definitely does not apply.

After educating yourself, please let us know why you were wrong 😉
 
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It's far from running the company. If you say things like this you don't know what you're talking about or you're just trolling.

It's regulating the companies and that's been a thing for quite some time in both US and EU.
You think EU is doing a good job?
 
Providing something of dubious value, in exchange for a large sum of money is still rent seeking.
Hmm .. You consider providing access to a market of 2B+ devices, higher income and higher spending consumers + development tools that simplify development, maintenance and distribution of secure software to those consumers dubious value? 🤔
 

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Dubious value “to you” doesn’t apply to everyone else now does it? 😉
That’s up to the person on the receiving end though isn’t it.

Hmm .. You consider providing access to a market of 1B, higher income, higher spending consumers + development tools that simplify development, maintenance and distribution of secure software to those consumers dubious value? 🤔
I am not owned by Apple for them to control access to. As I’ve said previously, I will entertain monetary offers if Apple would like to set something up. Spotify pays the ADP fee for the development tools. As for everything else, Apple is the one choosing to force developers to go through them for things like distribution.
 
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