Spotify Files Complaint Against Apple With European Regulators Over 'Unfair' App Store Practices

[mdriftmeyer]

The raw figures may be true, but there's an argument that without a vibrant app store, Apple wouldn't have sold as many iOS devices as they have and there's no argument that iOS devices are certainly Apple's biggest earner.

Of course, this can never be proven, but the lack of Apps was certainly used a stick to beat Windows Phone over the head and as at least a contributory reason to its failure.
I think it's more than a little unfair to dismiss developers out of hand as they most certainly have had a hand in the rapid growth of Apple over the last 10 years or so

There's a fact to be made without Apple you have no revenue stream for this site only existed right after the NeXT/Apple merger and capitalized on a naive community clamoring for any news of the next generation era of Steve Jobs led Apple.

 

[spazzcat]

Spotify has more paid subscribers than Apple Music. This is a well known fact.

If Apple were to cancel all subscription payments paid via the App Store, they would be open to class action lawsuits and a host of other legal issues.

Spotify has a point here.
Apple is not only the owner of the App Store, they are also a competitor offering the exact same type of service.
Having a built in 30% “fee” is the epitome of an unfair advantage.
They are simply acting as a card processor in the transaction. The average processing fee is 5% or less literally everywhere else.
That would be fair.

Apple does own the App Store. They created it, they run it, they host it...

 

[mrow]

That $99 annual fee includes being able to host your apps in the App Store.
Not my "interpretation", it's a fact of the developer agreement.
https://developer.apple.com/programs/whats-included/
You cannot host your app in the App Store without this membership.

So yes... Spotify is already paying to be hosted in the App Store.

I guess you missed the part in the discription where it says “no hosting fees”? Once again, the $99 is a fee to get access to the developer platforms, no to host your app.

 

[spazzcat]

On spotify I can use the app with zero dollars invested.

On Uber, I cannot make use of it without spending money.

Why doesnt uber have to front up 30%

Because the payment isn't handled by Apple...

 

[cocky jeremy]

There is only one app store people can use with the iPhone though. The 30% fee seemed justifiable up until the point they released a product at a price that was literally their competitor's price minus the app store fee. Contrast this to supermarkets, where they purchase product from vendors and then mark it up for a profit. It is not anti-competitive for supermarkets to have generics, because a) there are other supermarkets to buy food from, and b) they are purchasing the product from vendors in the first place and thus taking on risk.

And they can buy phones from other places as well. Apple isn't even the market share leader.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Can you elaborate on this? Is the local library only a problem for AM? Does spotify ignore your library? I currently use both spotify and pandora free versions and have found no reason to pay for any service. How I might differ is that I do not have my itunes library on my phone.

I keep the two completely separate. So I have my iTunes library I burned from CDs and bought over the years, and then I use the Spotify app when I just want random music.

 

[dannyyankou]

I think Spotify is just salty that Apple didn’t support their royalty complaints.

 

[truthertech]

Current model is ok for an indie developer or for a small company, as you give away 30% of the profit but don't have the hassle related to payments.
Companies like Netflix, Amazon and even Spotify should be able to get a private deal with Apple. Once the volume of purchases goes above a certain limit it would be reasonable to ask for a smaller fee instead of 30%. It isn't a good user experience to be forced to make the purchase outside the app to save money

It is effectively 15% for Spotify and others as most people keep their subscriptions for a year

 

[macfacts]

Apple does own the App Store. They created it, they run it, they host it...

Apple also has a monopoly on iOS app stores.

 

[spazzcat]

apple will eventually need to give in to this.
apple can get around it by making two app marketplaces, totally separate, one for apps that are developed and made by apple alone, and the other a marketplace that sells all apps except its own.
it can have its apps free of charge. and the other one that sells others' apps apple can take any commission that the market can bear.
it can set policies and enforce whatever rules it wants.

owning the store is not a problem.
its that app's own apps that it can promote put other apps at a disadvantage, and, that they compete in the same store.
separate the stores, and, there is no problem.

Apple created the platform, so I do agree they deserve something from Spotify leveraging that platform.

There should not be any "restrictions" placed on Spotify, based on where people subscribe.

I do agree 30% is too high, even if it's only the first year.

Do you know most retail has a markup of 40% or more?

 

[truthertech]

As you stated that is your opinion, but as a person who lives in the Apple eco-system I can tell you, in my opinion, Spotify is far superior. Living in SoCal I know many people in the music industry and they prefer Spotify. Apple couldn't curate a decent playlist without a bunch of corproate garbage. Apple Music is bloated with endless crap. I hop on Spotify I get great curated playlist and I create my own. In most cases, too much is too intrusive.

https://uandthem.com/education/2019...attle-for-higher-royalty-payouts-cult-of-mac/


You obviously don't know many artists or musicians as they much prefer Apple. Spotify pays among the lowest payments to musicians, about half of what Apple pays them, and recently joined Google and Amazon in fighting a proposal to pay the musicians any higher rate. Apple, of course, did not and the groups representing musicians thanked Apple.

 

[Defthand]

I don’t have an issue with Apple “owning” its app store and charging others for its use. Nonetheless, there’s no excuse for it to be the only source and means of selling apps to iDevice owners. Mac owners have fared just fine vetting apps themselves. There are built-in safeguards. There are remedies if an app is nefarious. Is it that the iDevice demographic is unusually ignorant and gullible, and needs supervision?

 

[H3LL5P4WN]

Yeah, you got that incredibly wrong.

Apple is the ONLY streaming provider that accepted the royalty rate increase on music streaming. It's everyone else that banded together to file a lawsuit against the increase from 10% of revenue up to 15% of revenue; Spotify, Google, Amazon, Pandora. Apple also pays developers more than Google for downloads on their apps, so there's that too...

Sorry.

While the semantics were off (I was just pulling from memory, I didn't re-look up any articles), I think we're both on the same side here. Did I word my post badly or did it come off as sarcasm?

 

[BuffaloTF]

Do you know most retail has a markup of 40% or more?

I guess more along these lines... Walmart selling a Spotify gift card -- the gift card distributor takes around 10% of the load value from the start (Blackhawk Network in the case of Spotify... and iTunes, Google, Xbox, Playstation, Netflix, Hulu) so a 30 dollar card, they're getting 3 bucks of the 30. The retail seller takes around 60-70% of what Blackhawk did, so another 1.70 off that 30. They're losing just shy of 20% on that value for any card you buy in a Walmart for that same thing for the convenience of making a purchase of their product easier to those they're trying to sell to.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Sorry Spotify, Apple has no obligation to host your app on their store for free

And app developers have the right to turn their back on the "Apple app eco-system" leaving the HomePod a way less attractive object (is that even possible?).

 

[spazzcat]

Apple also has a monopoly on iOS app stores.

Apple owns the Mall, the developer gets to open a store that sells an app, the rent is 30% of your sales.

 

[G5isAlive]

I have retracted my earlier statement. I have some thoughts on this matter, but it’s late here and I hope to better formulate my thoughts after I have had some sleep.

Suffice to say, I am a happy Apple user precisely because of decisions like this. Otherwise, I would have moved on to android if it were choices and freedom I preferred.

That said, it’s no surprise that Spotify is doing this now as Apple Music continues to gain momentum and market share in developed countries (which is where the money is).

Bottom line - spotify is getting desperate, and it shows.

Desperation often drives boldness. Spotify knows it doesn't have a case, they are simply applying the old idea 'no such thing as bad publicity.' Everyone loves an underdog, by Spotify crying victim in a forum that is bound to create a lot of press they just got free publicity to the participation trophy crowd.

And reading a lot of comments here leads me to believe they were successful.

The App Store is not a government public utility, nor is Apple a monopoly. Plenty of choices. Those of who realize the world is not a fair place understand this.

 

[mi7chy]

Good thing fanboys have no say in consumer protection laws.

 

[tomi03]

The best thing Apple fans can do is response is cancel any Spotify subscriptions. Hopefully though, very few of us are giving money to Spotify anyway. Apple Music is superior in every way IMHO.

Most ridiculous comment ever.

 

[swingerofbirch]

Without an upload/match feature, Spotify can’t even be considered in the same league as Apple Music.

That may be a good point, but whereas I used to find Apple intuitive, I am now baffled by a lot of their software. I would have an easier time keeping MP3s on onedrive and playing them than I would figuring this out.

They just sent me another 3 month free trial to Apple Music.

I can't even add a song to a playlist. When I tap on Add to Playlist, it says "This requires iCloud Music Library."

I can choose not now or Turn On.

So far I have chosen Not Now.

Why? Because it says absolutely nothing about what it does.

I don't know if it's going to do something whacky to my iTunes library on my Mac (which has happened before when I've tapped on things I wish I hadn't).

I already have "iTunes in the Cloud." Now there's iCloud Music Library in addition to iTunes in the Cloud? And in addition to iTunes Match?

That's three cloud services! In addition to Apple Music which is itself a cloud service. That's too many clouds.

I guess Spotify doesn't have this feature (although it automatically adds local files), but if they ever had a feature like this I think it would be much less confusing.

I just don't trust Apple and cloud things. I say that as a very long-term Apple online service user, going back to eWorld in the 90s. I have stuff still hosted on freeservers and tripod from the mid 1990s.

But all my dotMac and MobileMe galleries are gone. I know they gave me time to download (and I did), but the idea of a cloud service is that you upload it and could be lost at sea for 10 years and come back and your stuff is still there. Not if you used iTools, or dotMac, or MobileMe! Don't count on getting lost at sea.

I don't remember if it was the transition from dotmac to mobileme or mobileme to iCloud, but they had to send out CD-ROMs just to get people on a certain OS to not lose access to their e-mail and other cloud data. They're just clunky when it comes to the cloud.

They just have an insane way of dealing with the cloud, and I will absolutely never trust it. I trust Google Drive, Google Photos, OneDrive, DropBox, etc, because they make sense. It's a folder where you put stuff, like FTP but simpler.

Apple had the right idea with iDisk (though it was painfully slow), but their app based storage ever since iCloud is just confounding to me.

Sorry, didn't mean to rant. It just happened.

 

[BvizioN]

Apple Music sucks IMHO, spotify is way better. The simple fact you're cheering for getting ripped off... You paid for the phone, but you're fine with Apple stifling competition that would give you cheaper services.

How are we getting ripped off using Apple music? And how does the competition (in this case Spotify) gives us cheaper service? Last time I checked they cost the same.
And by the way, you can be fooled all you want by Spotify's propaganda, I do not believe they are doing this for the customers as much as they are doing it for their benefits. They may use the "mask" of an innocent child but deep down they aren't any less evil than Apple or Google.
By the way, I am using both Spotify and AM, have been using Spotify for years but seriously considering to end it. Apart from the dark theme, I don't really find anything else that would benefit me more than AM.

 

[ecr80]

so can they just add Siri Shortcuts to Spotify?

 

[G5isAlive]

Good thing fanboys have no say in consumer protection laws.

Good thing crybabies also have no say in consumer protection laws.

 

[mi7chy]

Good thing crybabies also have no say in consumer protection laws.

You want milk and cookies so you can stop crying?

 

[farewelwilliams]

Apple Music sucks IMHO, spotify is way better. The simple fact you're cheering for getting ripped off... You paid for the phone, but you're fine with Apple stifling competition that would give you cheaper services.

Should your ISP get 30% off Apples revenue? If Apple doesn't like it, they can launch their own network right?

MS got fined for pushing Internet Explorer over others and in their case you could install the competition, in Apple's case you can't even do that.

Spotify doesn’t allow cloud music uploads
Spotify doesn’t pay as much royalties
Spotify can simply not allow in app subscriptions but instead offer subscriptions through the web
ISP only handles the internet. Apple handles the software development kit and dev tools, creat Swift for developers, handles datacenters to deliver apps for free, handles reviewing each app, runs the app store and provides editorial, runs free services for apps like Cloudkit (where a developer can potentially store 1 petabyte of data for free for their service), GameCenter, and Maps, and etc

To expect Spotify to take advantage of any or all of this for free is ridiculous