Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
I don't really understand how this can work though. After all, your personal Cloud library may contain music not available on Apple Music. Do those items just disappear from your playlist when shared with others, or are they displayed but inaccessible to anyone but yourself?

And I listened to a 'Guitar Gods' playlist, and, well... Huh? Missed it they did by a little. Many were good choices, but some were like, NOPE!
[doublepost=1515161056][/doublepost]
"Spotify is also currently facing a copyright lawsuit for allegedly using thousands of songs from artists like Tom Petty, Neil Young, Stevie Nicks, and the Doors without a license from publisher Wixen Music."

Least its good to see then Apple isn't the only one to have lawsuits :)

They grow on trees for some reason...
 

kyleh22

macrumors 6502a
Apr 26, 2012
629
783
Baltimore, MD
I hope spotify gets into the music video game. I would love to see a spotify like serive on aTV that plays music videos. It seems like this is something that may be interested in as they keep increasing their video content.

I would love to put on a playlist of music videos at my next house party.
 

pete2106

Suspended
Dec 7, 2012
329
979
The choice between Apple Music and Spotify is a no-brainer. I can listen to my spotify account on my phone, tablets, computers, TV, playstation, Bose Soundtouch, Amazon Echos... The list goes on and on. Apple music doesn't work on anything past my Apple equipment and for the price of a single HomePod, I can buy smart speakers for the whole house.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DakotaGuy

whsbuss

macrumors 601
May 4, 2010
4,180
1,041
SE Penna.
"Spotify is also currently facing a copyright lawsuit for allegedly using thousands of songs from artists like Tom Petty, Neil Young, Stevie Nicks, and the Doors without a license from publisher Wixen Music."

Least its good to see then Apple isn't the only one to have lawsuits :)
And if this lawsuit is successful, Spotify will likely fold.
 

IGI2

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2015
548
511
I subscribe to GPM/Youtube Red Family so I am familiar with it's benefits. My suggestion of local files was an incomplete thought, apologies to all. My inner monologue assumed everyone knew what I was referencing. I was talking about uploading iTunes content into Spotify via the desktop app via local files.
Just to add my 2 cents, I would say that the lack of web app, browser access, is the biggest disappointment.
 

bigjnyc

macrumors 604
Apr 10, 2008
7,820
6,662
There is something I am curious about with these streaming services. how do the artists/record labels know how many times their songs have been streamed? Are they just taking the number that is given to them by the service which is generated by their software? Or is there some kind of regulatory service sitting in between to make sure its on the up and up?
 

cashville2400

macrumors regular
Nov 29, 2011
237
402
I have enjoyed Spotify for many years :). All streaming services are known to rip off the artist with the small percentages they pay them, especially compared to what the artist would get from radio air play and CD sales. The record company has a lot to do with them being screwed too.
 

SSDGUY

macrumors 65816
Jul 27, 2009
1,345
2,114
Not really a fair comparison at all. Apple has been in the online music business for 15 years now. They didn't need to ask for anybody to fill in any information to sign up - Apple already has your name, address, credit card, and email address. They didn't need to ask you to download an app. Literally all you had to do was update to a newer version of iOS (which was automatically downloaded and older versions would nag you to install), launch the stock music app, and tap to have your trial begin. If you forgot about it, you'd be automatically converted into a paying subscriber. And they had a massive and widely covered media event to launch the service, followed by a massive campaign ad.

In contrast, Spotify needs to convince you to find the app, then download it, then set up an account, then fill in all your payment info to upgrade to a paying account. And Spotify doesn't have media events (or if they do, they're not widely covered), and the ad campaign hasn't been anywhere near as massive.

Yup. Like how DOS merged the world to Windows in the 80's-90's – huge head-start even though they started later.
 

marty11

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2011
274
412
In terms of long term viability, this is actually the takeaway:

8z1fk8.jpg


The more subscribers they sign up, the more money they actually lose. Tidal, Rdio, and Pandora are all dying, and Spotify can’t go on like that forever.

You think Apple has the magic formula? On it's own Apple music is losing money as well. It's Artists vs Recording Companies vs Distribution Services. Someone is going to take a haircut, because the world isnt going back to buying music files outright.
 

Kabeyun

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2004
3,410
6,347
Eastern USA
You think Apple has the magic formula? On it's own Apple music is losing money as well. It's Artists vs Recording Companies vs Distribution Services. Someone is going to take a haircut, because the world isnt going back to buying music files outright.
Yep. I do. As I posted earlier, their magic formula is probably not to care much if Apple Music loses money. Apple, like Amazon, can support a money-losing service with profits (massive profits in Apple’s case) from other products.

This article may help.
 
Last edited:

ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,544
6,042
There hasn't been a single Apple Music ad broadcasted on any channel (TV and Internet) in Poland.

You can't ride a subway or train in Boston without being subjected to numerous ads for Apple Music (or at least you couldn't when the service was first getting started. I haven't actually used the subway in Boston in a year, so IDK what ads they're covered in now.)
 

marty11

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2011
274
412
Yep. I do. As I posted earlier, their magic formula is probably not to care much if Apple Music loses money. Apple, like Amazon, can support a money-losing service with profits (massive profits in Apple’s case) from other products.

This article may help.

The thesis in that article is nearly irrelevant. People dont buy devices for music anymore. Apple doesnt even have 20% of the international smartphone market share, which means they have close to zero access to 80% of smartphone users.

I get the "Apple Ecosystem" argument, but it's 2018 and their Ecosytem sucks, and is bested by Alexa and Google. Spotify is just another 3rd party service doing it better than Apple.

Like I said, the music business will have to change or the distribution model will fall apart (again).
 

whsbuss

macrumors 601
May 4, 2010
4,180
1,041
SE Penna.
The thesis in that article is nearly irrelevant. People dont buy devices for music anymore. Apple doesnt even have 20% of the international smartphone market share, which means they have close to zero access to 80% of smartphone users.

I get the "Apple Ecosystem" argument, but it's 2018 and their Ecosytem sucks, and is bested by Alexa and Google. Spotify is just another 3rd party service doing it better than Apple.

Like I said, the music business will have to change or the distribution model will fall apart (again).
I'm not sure I would go that far that Amazon and Google is better. All the ecosystems have their pros and cons.
 

marty11

macrumors 6502
Oct 9, 2011
274
412
I'm not sure I would go that far that Amazon and Google is better. All the ecosystems have their pros and cons.

That's fair. My point is it's 2018 ...there are many choices, and one hardly has to choose one "ecosystem". The idea that Apple music will be the last music service standing because they were able to absorb losses is laughable. Like all their offerings, they will be little more than another choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: whsbuss

Kabeyun

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2004
3,410
6,347
Eastern USA
That's fair. My point is it's 2018 ...there are many choices, and one hardly has to choose one "ecosystem". The idea that Apple music will be the last music service standing because they were able to absorb losses is laughable. Like all their offerings, they will be little more than another choice.
It’s 2018 and many of those choices are in jeopardy. Having Apple’s financial might behind you isn’t a laughable strength, and I’d dial down the arrogance on that. This article may help. The first three paragraphs essentially agree with the idea. It goes on to describe a lot of interesting things happening in the space by scrappy smaller fries (some of which I’ve never heard of) but the common theme is that unless you have a VC white knight, luck with crowdfunding, or a niche model, you’re withering on the vine. The music business won’t change as long as the rights holders are getting their money, and Apple et al can afford to pay for a very long time. And the ecosystem point is peripheral for exactly the reason you said. People arent buying iPhones for music. They’re just buying iPhones, and Apple is making scads of cash selling them.

And, as whsbuss noted, “Apple’s ecosystem sucks,” is entirely your opinion. Don’t confuse it for settled science.
 
Last edited:

KUKitch

macrumors 6502
Jan 10, 2008
450
288
England
The thesis in that article is nearly irrelevant. People dont buy devices for music anymore. Apple doesnt even have 20% of the international smartphone market share, which means they have close to zero access to 80% of smartphone users.

I get the "Apple Ecosystem" argument, but it's 2018 and their Ecosytem sucks, and is bested by Alexa and Google. Spotify is just another 3rd party service doing it better than Apple.

Like I said, the music business will have to change or the distribution model will fall apart (again).

Considering that Apple Music is available on Android, which is the dominant international shareholder, as well as iOS - it's absurd to say they have no access to 80% of users... additionally, if you consider Siri to be the "Apple ecosystem" then it makes sense to say it's bested by Alexa and Google, but if you consider what it actually entails (eg software, hardware, etc) then (at least in my opinion of course) it's idiotic to say that it sucks. Even if you don't consider the leaps and bounds that the services section of their income statement seems to be growing by every quarter - AM is still a nice side business to be growing - hopefully they can improve the discovery and interface, but having access to everything in iTunes and having it in a native, integrated app is pretty huge.

I have never been into Spotify - but think it's fine in my light usage over the years, primarily I used to have a ton of my own music and uploaded it/streamed it through Google Play Music - but I've just not found it to be worth all the effort anymore when I can just have it all in the cloud via iTunes and have a centralized place to go to access it and play it.
 

Uofmtiger

macrumors 68020
Dec 11, 2010
2,299
1,026
Memphis
You think Apple has the magic formula? On it's own Apple music is losing money as well.
Where are you getting the data for this statement?

That's fair. My point is it's 2018 ...there are many choices, and one hardly has to choose one "ecosystem". The idea that Apple music will be the last music service standing because they were able to absorb losses is laughable. Like all their offerings, they will be little more than another choice.
As mentioned above, the ecosystem is Apple's devices combined with their services.

Like you, I don't believe Apple Music will be the only music service at the end of the day because, if there are losses, Amazon, Google, and Apple can all afford to absorb them. For example, Apple's Services is one of the fastest growing segments on Apple's financial statements. Apple Music is in this segment, so if it was losing money, it is a small fraction of what they are earning elsewhere.

"Service revenues reaches all-time high,” was the headline of the press release. But what is services revenue, exactly?

Well, it incorporates a lot of things. According to the
“data summary,” Apple’s services revenue “includes revenue from Digital Content and Services, AppleCare, Apple Pay, licensing and other services.” Apple Music, iCloud and the App Store are also part of the category.

This broad group of businesses accounted for $8.5 billion in revenue in Apple’s latest quarter, a sizable chunk of Apple’s $52.6 billion in sales. This is also up 34% from the same period last year.

While we haven’t been given a detailed category breakdown, we do know that Apple Music is a growing aspect of the business. The company said that subscriptions are up 75% since last year, as it continues to make gains on Spotify and Pandora."

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/03/a...enue-suggests-growth-in-applepay-apple-music/

"Diving deeper into gross profits, if we assume that Apple's Services has a margin of about 65-70%, we can see that about 2/3rds of the remaining $32B in gross profits were generated by Apple Services in 2017."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4127856-apple-services-nitrous-apples-profit-engine

This is much different than Spotify and Tidal who are relying on their music services to make all their money. I would expect that Spotify will eventually branch out, but unless another company steps in for Tidal (like Sprint did last year), it might not be around very long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kabeyun

AppleScruff1

macrumors G4
Feb 10, 2011
10,026
2,949
Spotify is knock knock knockin' on deaths door.

Apple Music is the king.

Wishful thinking Tim.
[doublepost=1515613388][/doublepost]
They could have 500 Million subs and it means nothing if they cant turn a profit. They don't even have enough money to make a decent iPad app that supports multitasking/split screen. That alone for me would never convince me to use spotify. They definitely offer a great service but Apple has the home court advantage with a better app cross platform and integration with all their devices/music libraries.

Especially with a possible IPO coming soon?Money is king. No profit means death.

Amazon did pretty good.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.