Spotify's CEO Expects Apple to Further 'Open Up' After EU Antitrust Complaint

[Abazigal]

It's more like Wal*Mart forcing denim manufacturers to sell denim at a 30% markup to Levis and Wrangler, and giving free promotional placement for their house brand.

How would charging yourself 30% even work?

 

[now i see it]

said Ek is "moving in the right direction," but there are "many, many steps" still to go before Spotify will consider Apple an "open and fair platform."

Open and Fair platform? What a naive statement. Those aren't two words that anyone would use to describe the OS

 

[supazeezun]

Apple should just make Apple Music for free and kill Spotiy, it's not like they can't afford it.

still won't use apple music. make it free? so how would they pay royalties to musicians?

 

[Tech198]

I get it, Apple is the "gate keeper" and one might say they have a strangle hold on IOS distribution, but could you imagine someone suing Walmart for refusing to sell their product.

They would have equal rights if they wanted...

 

[1146331]

It's more like Wal*Mart forcing denim manufacturers to sell denim at a 30% markup to Levis and Wrangler, and giving free promotional placement for their house brand.

No, it's like requiring denim companies to pay Apple 30% of any profits made while giving Apple free promotional placement for their house brand.

If Apple ran their app store like a normal store, then a denim company would tell Apple how much they need to pay for their product. Apple would then mark up the price in order to make their profit.

The app store is the opposite of normal business, Apple is like the mafia. If you don't play their game then you are out.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

What is the EU going to do — set the App Store commission? If so, then say goodbye to the free market.

The App Store did not just appear out of thin air. Apple created this, fine tuned it, and made it possible for developers to distribute their apps to a wider audience. Their cut is justified. Deal with it.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Apple should just make Apple Music for free and kill Spotiy, it's not like they can't afford it.

No they shouldn't.

Spotify's "free" service is nothing but a POORLY made MP3/Music player with:
Limited playlists,
Playlists filled with not just the music YOU'VE chosen but also the music Spotify chooses.
- Let me tell you my Afro House playlist is filled wth junk that's not even remotely related to that genre (not the tempo/nor artists that make music in that genre). I lost my shizz at Spotify due to this alone!
Sun El-Musican = Afro House (and surprisingly the right version of the song 'Sonini" is on Apple Music (thanks Sony)
Holly Rey - is NOT Afro House lol.

screw Spofity and their junk ... they neuter the basic music playback for free so that users that want to do anything useful must pay for it. Why bother at all and their algorhythms hype is garbage to me: Classical, Afro House, Classic or glam-rock era ... it just doesn't get it.

I came BACK to Apple Music, not because of synergy within Apple ecosystem and the hardware I own, but because the music streaming service was better than it was 7 months ago and MUCH better than what Spotify has shown me on the free based system they offer. I'm not paying for junk that I got free and dislike.

I cannot tell you how many times I've Unsubscribed from everything Spotify emails me yet they STILL continue to do so. I think I need to download the app in order to delete my account.

Update: you need to logon to your account online in order to see your Privacy Settings to disable ALL notifications - ridiculous! Also why is FB data collection enabled by default in 2020 by this service? Thankfully I don't have a FB account but it's strikingly strange and untrustworthy no mention of this during the registration steps that FB data would be mined?!

No ... I'm NOT using Spotify, not now not ever. Glad that experiment was quickly over for me.

 

[arvinsim]

Google and Apple are both the same 30% first year and 15% there later - if you sign up for the service thru their platform (app stores)

if you sign up for Spotify over a browser, and then grab the app, then Spotify pays Apple or Google nothing (but still get to use their platforms)

But I believe Spotify charged $3 more for the subscription thru Apple’s App Store.

Apple claimed last year, that the first year 30% fee applied only 0.5% of the Spotify members (because Spotify stopped allow subscribers sign up through the app) and 680k members for 15% fee (which a small potatoes compared to their google customer base)

So from a $ perspective, it’s just sour grapes and a waste of money for both companies.

So why complain about Apple, and not Google where the stakes are higher:
Apple’s policy of not letting app developers put a link that re-directs them to a browser to sign-up (hence by-passing the App Store payment service). I believe, this is was original complaint, that it wasn’t level playing field.

Are you kidding? It is very well known that you can sideload apps in Android. You can't do that with Apple.

 

[FriednTested]

It's more like Wal*Mart forcing denim manufacturers to sell denim at a 30% markup to Levis and Wrangler, and giving free promotional placement for their house brand.

do you even know how much Walmart squeezes its suppliers on pricing? If I sold a product for $100 to another store Walmart will squeeze me to $80 if I want my product in that store. And I can’t even choose which stores I get to display my product in. They might just give me a random rural store which hardly has any sales. If I want to display it on premium stores I have to pay a separate shelf fee.
Before anyone questions. I have been a supplier to Walmart and have worked there too.

 

[cgaw23]

I have Apple Music and Spotify, prefer Apple Music but I wish they would offer streaming support on gaming consoles and older smart TVs not just the newer ones.

 

[paul4339]

Are you kidding? It is very well known that you can sideload apps in Android. You can't do that with Apple.

this is about the subscriptions enrollment, not apps... Spotify is a subscription service.
Sideloading Spotify on Android doesn’t give you a free subscription.

 

[TechieGeek]

Some people here are so anti-Spotify.

Competition breeds innovation, y’all. This is good for consumers. We can’t have monopolies, or they stop innovating.

 

[DeepIn2U]

No, it's like requiring denim companies to pay Apple 30% of any profits made while giving Apple free promotional placement for their house brand.

If Apple ran their app store like a normal store, then a denim company would tell Apple how much they need to pay for their product. Apple would then mark up the price in order to make their profit.

The app store is the opposite of normal business, Apple is like the mafia. If you don't play their game then you are out.

I'll have plenty of what you're smoking.

A retail brick & mortar store (or online store) opens up for business.
They reach out to those that create products and services, and in turn resells those wares.
Any business that is not for profit is in business to make a profit, so a markup will ALWAYS exist.
Soap, Pop, Chips, clothes, Windows, siding for houses, cars, bedding, cutlery, table ware, etc etc ALL have a markup in ANY capitalist market to sell products to any buyer. They have a markup for hosting a location physically and watch over the quality of said products/services for the buyer to have good faith in getting quality products.
Online stores host virtual products and services that can be purchased/rented (subscriptions).

The fee that Apple charges allows for:
Your code to NOT have ransomware, malware, and adheres to very sound guidelines for customers (a family age range) can accept and expect. No foul language in descriptions or nudity in the previous of the app.
Apple is guaranteeing your software works on over a billion devices, all maintained with software that will NOT break your app currently in your store.
Apple provides a gateway where Spotify (or any vendor) can upload their product 1x and if coded and set to reach 3 or 5 platforms (MacOS, iOS, iPadOS, TVOS, and WatchOS) without ANY EFFORT by the vendor.
Apple allows for ease of searching or accessibility of finding your app,
ease of installation
NO REFUNDS for purchases - except in exceptional and rare cases - which in these cases is NOT usually faulted towards the vendor.
An organized structure of apps
a repository that is fully maintained by Apple 24/7/365/5yrs minimum without Any extra charges - and Apple has the industries BEST uptime or recovery times for their App Store and services of any other company - yes including Google over PlayStore.

This is how EVERY business in a capitalist economy works: Provide, markup, sell, revenue vs expenses, try to gain profits and prosper.

IF ... Apple App Store was NOT clearly a desirable place to be for Spotify they can simply pull out of the App Store.
They have no valid argument: they've continually profited and further their numbers of paid subscribers have clearly and continually have climbed above and beyond any others on Apple's App Store and their platform of mobile devices.

They need to pull the wool off their eyes and count their blessings and quit pointing fingers to Apple. They've been eating and WELL at that.
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Some people here are so anti-Spotify.

Competition breeds innovation, y’all. This is good for consumers. We can’t have monopolies, or they stop innovating.

There is no monopoly here.

Google Play Store - has more apps, more users, more devices globally.
Spotify has over the last few years grown on both platforms, increased revenues from paid subscribers (again via both), and have continually doubled Apple Music subscriber numbers and growth. The competition is coming from Apple as the golden streaming music standard is Spotify. (not for me but it's the standard today as it has been 2yrs ago).

There is more revenue for apps sold on Apple's App Store than on Google's playstore, everyone knows this, and this is WHY Spotify wants more money because their bleeding through all their revenue at a loss ever year. Their over spending while not looking internally to reduce costs. Instead they're complaining off money their not getting and really don't have a right to since they benefit of everything the App Store has provided.

I want Apple to allow any other music player be the default. Then they'll see how garbage their offering is vs Apple's by the choice of their users.
No Accessibility controls
No music on Apple Watch - just a remote control
sharing of playlists is done through their medium not using standard API's (unless the free version is crippled).

 

[paul4339]

Apple, said Ek is "moving in the right direction," but there are "many, many steps" still to go before Spotify will consider Apple an "open and fair platform."

Apple isn’t striving to be Open, why would he presume this?

Fair is subjective... Apple typically charges a premium, but in this case it the same as Google play. But he’s not even referring to fees anymore (because they blocked enrollment from the app), he’s referring to policy and easier access to other parts of the ecosystem.

 

[mschira]

Well, the main reason why I don't have a HomePod yet is simply that I can't use it to play spotify directly.
That diminishes it's function, because I need to play my music on my iPad. Once I use my iPad I can just use any bluetooth speaker - why a HomePod?
The moment it can play Spotify directly, I am buying. Simple.
M.

 

[TechieGeek]

Well, the main reason why I don't have a HomePod yet is simply that I can't use it to play spotify directly.
That diminishes it's function, because I need to play my music on my iPad. Once I use my iPad I can just use any bluetooth speaker - why a HomePod?
The moment it can play Spotify directly, I am buying. Simple.
M.

The Sonos are really nice...

Or for the absolute best audio quality, you can get some nice old-school speakers and hook them up to an amp!

 

[LinusR]

So hosting the in-app purchase content, payment processing, APIs to enable in-app purchasing is all nothing?

Precisely -- also, there's quite some peace of mind that goes along with only using one payment option across multiple services. In an ideal world, I'd give my credit card details to as few services possible, so I am grateful that I can handle so many purchases through Apple/iTunes Store.

 

[pw5a29]

Nearly a year after iOS 13 released and Spotify is still lacking in features, Apple Watch streaming, local storage. Siri shortcuts to play playlists and shuffle songs.

Even my local small music apps have these.....APIs are there.....

 

[inkswamp]

Remember the whole Netflix debacle when a Mac update broke Silverlight on the Mac around 2012 (IIRC)? Remember that stupid message you'd see if you tried watching Netflix on a Mac blaming Apple for it because Apple chose not to support the plug-in they need, blah, blah, whine, whine? You know, all that time and effort to complain and point fingers instead of just retooling their product to work without relying on other companies and technology out of their control.

Netflix finally got smart about that and moved on and they're bigger and better than ever. I'm reminded of that today with Spotify's attitude. Don't like what Apple's doing? Figure out something better. Your business shouldn't rely on telling other companies what they have to do. If it does, you've screwed up somehow.

 

[Eorlas]

Spotify's CEO should instead be sorting out why tf they're eliminating support for 3rd party dj applications such as djay this summer.

i love spotify, it's highly intuitive, beautiful, and its bereft of Apple's sick obsession with gigantic headers and UI elements and no option for UI scaling.

i do not at all see a good reason why Apple Music should take over vs Spotify. it's like you people want to see a world where Apple doesn't have competition

 

[kanki1985]

Apple CEO expects Spotify to just shut up and quit crying..

 

[entropys]

I am leaning more towards Spotify's side, even if I think they are being whiney.
Music Service "A" - $9.99
Music Service "B" - $12.99 (after adding the 30% charge on top)
I firmly believe that Apple should lower their fees. Don't make it zero, but lower them to allow fairer competition within their platform.

It’s 15% after the first year for those subscribing thru the app. If you sign up to Spotify in a computer browser, it’s nothing to Apple if you use the Spotify app. Ever.
This is just someone wanting to leech off Apple without doing any work, or to avoid paying any cost for accessing Apple infrastructure. Think of one of the barnyard animals in the story of the little red hen. I would guess the goat.

 

[Dhonk]

I just want Apple to let SiriusXM run on HomePod without needing an iphone/ipad. I hate that I can't tweak the base-heavy sound levels of the HomePod unless I'm using the Music App. I don't care for the Apple Music streaming mixes in my genres

 

[incoherent_1]

I love Apple, but 15-30% in perpetuity is ridiculous. Apple deserves a cut, yes that is for sure. But if I’m a Spotify subscriber 20 years from now, do they deserve to still be getting a 15-30% cut?!

 

[Red Oak]

First, Apple has made it so that the App Store is the only source of apps.

Wrong. Apple’s market share is 14% world-wide and 40% in the US. It has no majority share anywhere. Spotify has plenty of other distribution options.

Google Play charges Spotify the same exact for distribution on its platform. Why is Spotify not suing Google as well?

Should Apple make something on in-app purchases? Sure. They can't run an App Store for free (although they've made it so people need it), but 30% for something they had nothing to do with whatsoever? Maybe a couple percent, at most, for the convenience.

Wrong again. Apple’s take drops to 15% for all subscriptions over one year.

Apple covers: running the Aop Store in 100+ countries, servers, all API development across several platforms (iOS, watchOS, iPadOS, tvOS, Siri, CarPlay, iMessage), billing infrastructure, marketing of the App Store, App review and approval process (for end user malware and privacy protections), support for 23 different languages including English, family sharing functionality

Tell me where I am wrong here

All these years. All the drama. And Spotify is basically a zero profit music royalty distribution platform.

if you can’t make any money with 300 MAUs and $8 billion/yr revenue, maybe the problem is you