If Sprint gets the iPhone, is it possible that Virgin Mobile could get it also? Isn't it owned by Sprint? That would be awesome.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Sprint to Launch iPhone 5 with Unlimited Data Next Month
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
How do you disagree with numbers??
Because I think you have the numbers (and other stuff) wrong...
ATT and VZW have c.65% Marketshare in the US. If iPhone WAS outselling Android combined on those 2 carriers then I don't think it would be trailing so badly. with a widening gap.
You say people chose carriers first, then phones, which again I believe is blatantly wrong . There are enough threads on here to tell you that. People who HAD to have an iPhone regardless...
your a/, b/, c/ choices are also dubious.
a/ I agree with
b/ switch from Android to iPhone? Really? what about those switching away from iPhone or those switching from RIM/Nokia to iPhone. It isn't clear cut.
c/ Upgrade to a smartphone that isn't iPhone...maybe?
Mass exodus from ATT to Verizon would depend on the definition of 'mass exodus' but it was more than a few.
if iPhone outsells Android on Sprint (as you state) then it would have to be the market leader as it would be the best selling platform in 80% of the market!
I don't think anyone believes that iPhone will ever overtake Android from this point forward.
..like I say, I'm pretty sure you're mostly wrong.
I provided the evidence that my numbers are not wrong. haha...did you read the link, or did you just dismiss what i said without reading it?
The iPhone does outsell every individual android phone on both Verizon and AT&T. (That's a link...click it and read it). The iPhone 3GS outsells every individual android phone on AT&T. I think its a safe bet that the iPhone outsells many of the lower tier android phones on AT&T and Verizon combined. Like I said, I'm not just speaking opinion...read the article i linked to, or do a google search for "best selling smartphones"...are you suggesting that there are android phones that are outselling the iPhone in the US? Because there are not.
I'm sorry, but people do choose carriers first. If they didn't Apple wouldn't have sold 2M Verizon iPhones in the first 60 something days of availability. If people were choosing phones first, everyone who wanted an iPhone would have already had one. When VZW first released the iPhone they only allowed current customers to order first. They broke all sales records for any phone in their history in 2 hours...with their current customers. (That's also a link) If that doesn't show that people choose carrier first i dont know what does...
I agree with you correction on b...your absolutely right, there will be RIM/Nokia people as well
As for c...I'm talking about people that do upgrade to an iPhone. The people who upgrade to Android or some other OS are irrelevant to the conversation
A mass exodus is a significant amount. There was no significant amount that left AT&T for Verizon. (That's a link too)...nor will there be some significant amount that leaves AT&T and Verizon for Sprint...that's not how it works.
iPhone is gaining marketshare still. Yes...a year and a half old phone on two carriers is still gaining marketshare against 4G phones on multiple carriers. Give the credit where it's due...
If the iPhone goes to Sprint, we'll talk then. You have no logical argument that would explain why the iPhone wouldn't be the best selling phone on Sprint. All evidence points to the fact that that will absolutely be the case.
Like I said, I'm providing you clear cut evidence of what's happening. That's why it doesn't make sense that you disagree with me haha...that's like you disagreeing that Obama is president right now. You're absolutely right, iOS is not going to overtake Android. No one said it will. However, its marketshare will absolutely rise if they go to Sprint also. Why wouldn't it? These are not opinions...they're facts...
Actually, I was on Sprint for about 8 years and had great customer service and coverage experiences (at least, once they set up their unlimited roaming plan which allows you to use VZW towers at no cost), and I can't wait to go back. If Sprint is offering a discount on the 5, I'll probably eat the ETF in order to go to a carrier that doesn't drop every other call. Of course, if AT&T also allows early upgrades again, that would make the decision marginally more difficult.
To say that people choose carrier over phone is pretty ridiculous. You are trying to take the data from the example above about Verizon's sales, and trying to prove your hypothesis. At best, I'd say correlation does not prove causation. But I don't even agree with your assumption of correlation in that example. I don't have time to explain to you your error in logic, but how about this example. I left one hell of a Sprint plan (SERO) for my Verizon iPhone to pay over 100% more per month. I left an Android HTC EVO to do that not a RAZR. Therefore your statement is at least partially wrong because you didn't include me. I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only one.
Additionally, a phone purchase takes into account a variety of factors, phone, carrier, price, plan, family/friends, location, (and more) some people consider many of these factors and some less. Not only would it be very difficult to generalize as you did the order, but even more so to assume the decision is linear. I could even say that someone who did choose based on carrier more than any other factor could STILL end up with the iPhone if the other factors totaled more than 50%. Say like Carrier 45%, friends/family carrier 20%, Phone 35%.
Apology accepted. ;-)
Don't need to click your links to know you're wrong.. you also seem confused.
you originally said....
iPhone outsells all individual android phones (and many, if not all, combined).
and now you seem to be missing the combined bit.
... can't think why.
There never has been an argument about unique handsets, of course a range of 2 models with a 27% marketshare (combined) will have the biggest unique model.
...that was never the argument as your mistaken quote above shows. The link you provided shows nothing of the sort either...
your 2nd link re. people chosing carriers is open to different interpretation.
of course there will be some people who couldn't/wouldn't have ATT becuase of coverage or other issues. Just as there were those who had to have an iPhone. Its not black and white.
Could not some of those initial people by the ones switching to VZW from ATT?
Your third link is a cracker!! the actual worst!
Its ATT saying they weren't surprised by the number of switchers..... without giving figures!
How many ATT customers wanted to switch but contract constraints wouldn't let them? The 'mass exodus' is likely to continue as a steady flow rather than a torrent.
This is a good link to ATT response.. with editorial.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-20038717-233.html
How many will switch to Sprint? Who knows but again it will be more than a few.
and... no
iPhone is gaining marketshare still. Yes...a year and a half old phone on two carriers is still gaining marketshare against 4G phones on multiple carriers. Give the credit where it's due...
its not gaining market share 'against 4G phones on multiple carriers.'
its effectively losing Marketshare to Android, as the widening gap shows and both of them are pulling share from RIM and NOKIA ...just Android is pulling more...
if the iPhone goes to Sprint will it be their best selling phone? Maybe? Possibly?..probably but will it still lose against Android phones combined on Sprint?
...absolutely
hence the folly of your entire argument.
Changing what you've said already to try and suit the point you're trying to currently make doesn't change the past.
to sum it up.
iPhone as a unique platform is the best selling device on all its networks. And has a chance of being the same on Sprint.
Android as a platform on multiple devices (combined) outsells iPhone handsomely on every network. Hence its widening marketshare lead.
Will iPhone on Sprint = more iPhone marketshare? maybe....but it depends on the market and competitors.
(UK marketshare was static regardless of carrier volume)
maybe we can agree on that?
While this is a good move for an ailing company like Sprint, they will never be able to sustain it. They've yet to experience the high cost of carrying iPhones.
Maybe I'm just confused why we're arguing in agreement. You're saying exactly the points that I made:
1) iPhone is selling more then any individual android phone on any carrier in the US that's it's on. And like you said this is not some OMGGG revelation. It's two devices against 300. Like you said of course it's going to outsell all the others. Considering that there are many low-end Android phones which are not "flagships" or "must haves" on those carriers, it's a safe bet the iPhone is outselling those combined. I never stated unequivocally that the iPhone is outselling every android phone combined on every carrier. In fact you quoted me in this response where it was clear that that's not what I said!
2) The quote that you refer to as "mistaken" which you were so kind to produce here again clearly says "individual android" and it does outsell every individual android (not just on two carriers...every individual android phone in existence). I think it's an issue of reading comprehension, or lack thereof on your end, that's leading to your confusion.
3) No those initial people could NOT be the ones switching from VZW to ATT. Why? Because, again if you had read, the sales record was set in 2 hours by Verizon's current customers (the only people who had access to the presale). That's not to say that after the presale was done, that ATT users haven't switched, but the number of ATT users that contributed to the greatest sales record in Verizon's history? Zero.
4) The third link, aka the "cracker"
, says there was no surprise to the number of switchers. Meaning, yes, people switched but it wasn't a mass exodus. http://betanews.com/2011/04/20/3-6-...nk-claims-subscribers-are-fleeing-to-verizon/
AT&T activated more iPhone users then Verizon in the first quarter that both were available (granted AT&T had a headstart). But:
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/21/att-iphone-activations-flat-quarter-to-quarter-at-3-6-million/
After the quarter when both had an equal number of days of availability AT&T was still activating more then they had the previous year (YOY). So...no. If there's a "mass exodus" that's going to happen or imminent, it almost has to be a torrent and not a steady flow, because it's already been 7 months and nothing has changed. From the article: "Together, those pieces of data suggest that AT&T is still not seeing significant numbers of its existing iPhone customers defecting to Verizon for the CDMA iPhone." Now we can argue about what you think is happening, or what the numbers show...
5) iPhone will be the best selling phone on sprint. Like I said, we'll talk when the numbers are in. There's not going to be an android phone that sells better then the iPhone, and there will probably be several android phones that don't sell as well as the iPhone. As for "Changing what you've said already to try and suit the point you're trying to currently make doesn't change the past." here's what I said in my first post in this thread:
"more people are going to buy the iphone on sprint then android phones (probably combined)."
I've not changed my argument at all. I didn't say iPhone is going to beat android in global marketshare...I qualified it with "probably combined" indicating that it wasn't an absolute certainty, and I never argued that come 2012, iOS would have 80% marketshare, and android 5%. Not sure why you think I said that, or why you think I changed my argument. I never did.
My argument has been and still is that the iPhone will be the best selling phone on Sprint. It will also outsell many, if not all (my qualifier, not an absolute), the android phones on Sprint. (Sprint...not AT&T, VZW and Sprint. Sprint, only). Please show where I "Changed what you've said already to try and suit the point you're trying to currently make " Never happened.
And I don't know where you got the "outselling handsomely" bit from because I can't find any info about that. If you have a link of the breakdown of iPhone vs Android sales on ATT&T and Verizon, please provide it. Otherwise you're just speculating. Is Android as a whole outselling iPhone in the US? Absolutely. Is Android "handsomely" crushing iPhone on AT&T and Verizon? Not quite (unless you'd like to provide a link like I asked above).
In the meantime, you can read these (or ignore them like you've been doing) http://betanews.com/2011/04/21/at-t-and-verizon-iphone-sales-are-nearly-the-same-40-000-per-day/
http://macdailynews.com/2011/07/22/verizon-iphone-activations-increase-despite-android-push/
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...ctivations-12m-lte-device-sales-q2/2011-07-22
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ted_by_verizon_but_3g_tablets_prove_weak.html
Sorry for the multiple edits btw, it's just so easy I guess..all the talk about Apple cannibalizing its sales clearly was unfounded.
Now I understand that's an old article, but if you have a more recent one disputing it please feel free to provide (same with AT&T).
This is the only thing I found anywhere suggesting any Android phone is outselling the Verizon iPhone http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/03/htc-thunderbolt-vs-verizon-iphone-sales-tales-based-on-anecdota/ and as you can see it was pretty much some guy calling Verizon stores and saying "what's selling better?"...not anything based on real sales figures.
I think it's quite clear, that it's not as cut and dry and "handsome" as you'd like to think.
----------
Yep that's all I said in the beginning haha...somehow this has evolved into a marketshare argument!
Last edited:
Some good back and forth but want to throw in my two cents here...
I think most opinions - not facts - right now is the trend the market share is that the gap is narrowing between Android and iOS. And to eliminate some confusion, I am talking only about phones, not including tablets or iPod touches.
Based on what I have read, in the past year or so Android was believed to grow because of the number of devices it was on. Android isn't just one phone and many of those devices were sold for much less than the iPhone 3/3Gs/4. Apple started to cut in to some of that once they dropped the 3Gs to $50 but was still hard to compete with BOGO offers. The real test was when they launched on Verizon. So far, the iPhone is the best selling device on Verizon and it is believed it may be impacting the sales of Android devices.
The key here is trend. Android based on most recent numbers might still be outselling but the big question is will that trend change? Only being 2 quarters in to availability on Verizon is far to early to say what the true trend is and hence why a move to Sprint is a big deal as well.
As you point out, there are many reasons why a person chooses their certain cell phone and carrier. So for those who hate ATT or just don't have good ATT service, Verizon and Sprint offering an iPhone could drastically change the margin of total Android phone sales compared to iPhone sales.
Plus, you must also remember the iPhone 4 is over a year old now and many thought the iPhone5 would launch in June. This has caused a delay as well as many Verizon customers who though they can now buy an iPhone on Verizon, may not be eligible for an upgrade yet - again why we need more time to tell what is the real demand. Add in to this the unknown if Apple will release the iPhone4 at $99 after the 5 comes out and if they will also release a pre-paid 3Gs makes the entire "gap" issue very cloudy. Of course if none of this comes to pass, then the trend could change course over the past few months and go back to Android phones selling more than iPhones. Which is why I prefer to wait and really see what happens come June of next year.
Maybe I'm just confused why we're arguing in agreement. You're saying exactly the points that I made:
1) iPhone is selling more then any individual android phone on any carrier in the US that's it's on. And like you said this is not some OMGGG revelation. It's two devices against 300. Like you said of course it's going to outsell all the others. Considering that there are many low-end Android phones which are not "flagships" or "must haves" on those carriers, it's a safe bet the iPhone is outselling those combined. I never stated unequivocally that the iPhone is outselling every android phone combined on every carrier. In fact you quoted me in this response where it was clear that that's not what I said!
2) The quote that you refer to as "mistaken" which you were so kind to produce here again clearly says "individual android" and it does outsell every individual android (not just on two carriers...every individual android phone in existence). I think it's an issue of reading comprehension, or lack thereof on your end, that's leading to your confusion.
3) No those initial people could NOT be the ones switching from VZW to ATT. Why? Because, again if you had read, the sales record was set in 2 hours by Verizon's current customers (the only people who had access to the presale). That's not to say that after the presale was done, that ATT users haven't switched, but the number of ATT users that contributed to the greatest sales record in Verizon's history? Zero.
4) The third link, aka the "cracker"
http://betanews.com/2011/04/20/3-6-...nk-claims-subscribers-are-fleeing-to-verizon/
AT&T activated more iPhone users then Verizon in the first quarter that both were available (granted AT&T had a headstart). But:
https://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/21/att-iphone-activations-flat-quarter-to-quarter-at-3-6-million/
After the quarter when both had an equal number of days of availability AT&T was still activating more then they had the previous year (YOY). So...no. If there's a "mass exodus" that's going to happen or imminent, it almost has to be a torrent and not a steady flow, because it's already been 7 months and nothing has changed. From the article: "Together, those pieces of data suggest that AT&T is still not seeing significant numbers of its existing iPhone customers defecting to Verizon for the CDMA iPhone." Now we can argue about what you think is happening, or what the numbers show...
5) iPhone will be the best selling phone on sprint. Like I said, we'll talk when the numbers are in. There's not going to be an android phone that sells better then the iPhone, and there will probably be several android phones that don't sell as well as the iPhone. As for "Changing what you've said already to try and suit the point you're trying to currently make doesn't change the past." here's what I said in my first post in this thread:
"more people are going to buy the iphone on sprint then android phones (probably combined)."
I've not changed my argument at all. I didn't say iPhone is going to beat android in global marketshare...I qualified it with "probably combined" indicating that it wasn't an absolute certainty, and I never argued that come 2012, iOS would have 80% marketshare, and android 5%. Not sure why you think I said that, or why you think I changed my argument. I never did.
My argument has been and still is that the iPhone will be the best selling phone on Sprint. It will also outsell many, if not all (my qualifier, not an absolute), the android phones on Sprint. (Sprint...not AT&T, VZW and Sprint. Sprint, only). Please show where I "Changed what you've said already to try and suit the point you're trying to currently make " Never happened.
And I don't know where you got the "outselling handsomely" bit from because I can't find any info about that. If you have a link of the breakdown of iPhone vs Android sales on ATT&T and Verizon, please provide it. Otherwise you're just speculating. Is Android as a whole outselling iPhone in the US? Absolutely. Is Android "handsomely" crushing iPhone on AT&T and Verizon? Not quite (unless you'd like to provide a link like I asked above).
In the meantime, http://betanews.com/2011/04/21/at-t-and-verizon-iphone-sales-are-nearly-the-same-40-000-per-day/
Now I understand that's an old article, but if you have a more recent one disputing it please feel free to provide (same with AT&T).
This is the only thing I found anywhere suggesting any Android phone is outselling the Verizon iPhone http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/03/htc-thunderbolt-vs-verizon-iphone-sales-tales-based-on-anecdota/ and as you can see it was pretty much some guy calling Verizon stores and saying "what's selling better?"...not anything based on real sales figures.
I think it's quite clear, that it's not as cut and dry and "handsome" as you'd like to think.
----------
Yep that's all I said in the beginning haha...somehow this has evolved into a marketshare argument!
Holy ***t, that is one long post and response. I'll have to read it all when I have an hour.
Holy ***t, that is one long post and response. I'll have to read it all when I have an hour.
haha sorry...
This will be good for Sprint. At first things are going to be crazy since they will be getting so many new customers. So there will be people complaining about their data speeds. Sprint will probably need a few months to get used to all the new data users.
I don't think Sprint will cap data speeds for a long time. I was in the Marine Corps and they have a contract with AT&T. So all the Govt phones are through AT&T. I have seen Verizon aquiring huge companies. Sprint doesn't have nearly as many customers as AT&T and Verizon.
I don't think Sprint will cap data speeds for a long time. I was in the Marine Corps and they have a contract with AT&T. So all the Govt phones are through AT&T. I have seen Verizon aquiring huge companies. Sprint doesn't have nearly as many customers as AT&T and Verizon.
I had Sprint for years, probably 10 or so before I switched to AT&T for the 3GS.
I would go back in a heart beat but voice and data together are too important. I spent a lot of time on the phone reviewing while remoting into another system.
I have to have voice and data...what about LTE or 4G? Does that get away from the separate voice/data?
I would go back in a heart beat but voice and data together are too important. I spent a lot of time on the phone reviewing while remoting into another system.
I have to have voice and data...what about LTE or 4G? Does that get away from the separate voice/data?
Sprint's New ETF fee recently upped from $200 to $350
This certainly explains why Sprint recently upped their ETF to the same $350 that VZW and AT&T charge.
This certainly explains why Sprint recently upped their ETF to the same $350 that VZW and AT&T charge.
Just $ 100 a month?
This is not a good deal.
In Europe you can have the same deal for less than half.
I'd suggest a $50 a month unlimited voice and data plan.
But for this the cell phone and telecommunications cartel first has to break.
Until then: bad service at sky high prices.
This is not a good deal.
In Europe you can have the same deal for less than half.
I'd suggest a $50 a month unlimited voice and data plan.
But for this the cell phone and telecommunications cartel first has to break.
Until then: bad service at sky high prices.
haha sorry...
Actually, it's nice to see that there are still folks who can communicate in more than Twitter-length bites. The presentation of well considered comment or argument often requires more than 140 characters.