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SSD Buying Guide
- Thread starter Hellhammer
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I know the fw updater will be easy with crucial but if samsung make an app for osx so why don't we choose samsung and wait?
/how about intel, it will be alter. choice beside crucial
From what I understand, you can update through Bootcamp, but not in Parallels. All SSDs benefit from TRIM. Some need it more than others. The general feeling in The Samsung 830 SSD thread is running without it isn't a problem, but activating it causes no issues either. Some advocate enabling it and forcing a TRIM every month or so, then disabling it again.
Anandtech has some good info' on the 830's garbage collection. Basically, it doesn't do much real-time GC, but prefers to wait until the disc is "idle" (no input/output) and then does the GC.
The Crucial M4 is 98% as good as the Samsung 830, so if you're choosing between the two, just go for the one which is the cheapest.
Hmm, could you give me some instructions on how to run that drive optimally? I got the OCZ Vertex 3 off of the TigerDirect sale. I have the Macbook 5,1 and I keep hearing about the issues of SATA II and SATA III or TRIM enabling or firmware updates etc. Seems so complicated. Can anyone help me out on how to exactly install this? Do i need to boot up Lion from a different computer? Maybe from my old HD? or an External? What're linux tools and how do I use them to optimally run the drive? Do I need TRIM?
Thanks for all your guys' help
Good point. A used OEM Apple drive might be a good option if one can be found at the right price.
I'm still not so convinced the absence of TRIM on these aftermarket drives is that big a deal though. If TRIM is that important to you, and buying a used drive with no warranty is not a concern, there is an argument to be made for going that route.
Does Apple built-in Trim just work automatically if you convert an original non SSD Mac to have one of their OEM SSDs ? Can you actually buy an OEM SSD or just an SSD from the third party supplier with same model number, but which may not actually be identical to the OEM one?
Does Apple actually supply firmware updates for their OEM SSD?s
I have a hunch just going with the OEM SSD by conversion may not be quite the same as a from the factory SSD.
I have a lot of experience of aftermarket SSDs, but none with OEM SSDs. Firmware update of most is not problem providing you still have the internal superdrive. And Trim Enabler works very well now (and is essential for the Crucial M4 at least)
Trim isnt that important to me that much, reliability is. It does offer more consistant performance or let a SSD operate to its maximum. Trim provides longer life for the drive and ensures reliability, which is most important to me.
A half a sec real world use in random 4k is less important than seq speeds. Not worrying enabling trim, GC, etc. I want a reliable drive that works, one that i will not have to take out the drive to get it serviced, and is covered under Apple care.
With that being said, i was actually answering a question to a poster, not myself.
Most on e'bay are new pulls, with minimal use or no use at all. New ones are avail also.
Weather used or new, if it is in your laptop being a oem Apple SSD, it will be covered with you laptop under warranty, it will receive firmware updates, receive optimal performance with trim enabled and is covered under warranty with the rest of your macbook pro.
I don't see any down side to going with a OEM Apple Toshiba SSD.
Can you put one of these into a 2012 model? I for one would like to know what SSD's Apple is using for the legacy Macbook pros.
I want to order a 2012 model and take my 256 SSD out of my 2011 and put it into my 2012. Its kind of strange we don't know yet what Apple is shipping with their 2012 models. Could it be a Samsung 830? I heard from a vendor that is one of the SSD's Apple is using.
Found this. Sata 2.6 interface? A sata 2 drive with a sata 3 interface? Say what?
http://www.ssdwiki.com/2-5-inch/toshiba/hg3-series/
They are using that controller for the retina, could that mean the oem legacy model as well?
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Yes trim is enabled automatically OSX reconigizes it as a Apple SSD since their OEM drives have their own firmware on the drive itself. OSX reconizes the firmware and trim is enabled by default automatically. Any OEM Apple SSD will have trim enabled by default weather it came from the factory like that or not.
Yes firmware updates and OS updates as well. No to the same drive or third party drive since they don't have the Apple SSD firmware directly on the drive itself that OSX can reconigize to enable trim.
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The controller is the same as the retina MBP. The Samsung 830. They also come with a Toshiba TS256E.
Both are 6g drives.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6005/apples-new-ssd-its-fast
http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=APPLE SSD SM256E
This is good news for people like myself who like native trim functionality. I have a late 2011 MBP with 256 OEM SSD and 16GB Ram. Was going to get a 2012 model just for the improved SSD and USB 3.0. Mainly for the USB 3.0
Since the late 2011 models take SATA 3 drives, wouldn't the 2012 OEM versions work like the Apple branded Samsung 830(SM256E)? Wouldn't a 2012 Apple SSD be compatible? It should be.
I can usually get these thru vendors at a good price brand new. Or they should be showing up on ebay in the near future.
Both are 6g drives.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6005/apples-new-ssd-its-fast
http://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=APPLE SSD SM256E
This is good news for people like myself who like native trim functionality. I have a late 2011 MBP with 256 OEM SSD and 16GB Ram. Was going to get a 2012 model just for the improved SSD and USB 3.0. Mainly for the USB 3.0
Since the late 2011 models take SATA 3 drives, wouldn't the 2012 OEM versions work like the Apple branded Samsung 830(SM256E)? Wouldn't a 2012 Apple SSD be compatible? It should be.
I can usually get these thru vendors at a good price brand new. Or they should be showing up on ebay in the near future.
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Yes... if you install an Apple OEM SSD TRIM would just work. You still have the issue of no warranty on the drive. You are buying it used so there is no warranty and Apple will not warranty it because it did not come with your machine. If native TRIM (without a hack) is that important to you, this is the only way you are going to get it.
Having TRIM does not make any drive more reliable or more compatible or faster. TRIM is designed to prevent the slowing of write speeds only over a long period of time. The same thing is accomplished in all new drives now with built in garbage collection or you can use the TRIM hack if you are worried about it.
I don't recall reading about Apple ever released any SSD firmware updates for the OEM SSDs. Maybe a current owner of one can chime in here.
I don't really see a wrong answer here, you just need to decide if having native TRIM with an OEM SSD is a priority for you.
It's not me considering the used OEM SSD route. My post you quoted above was sounding a note of caution to the poster who was thinking OEM, about whether it would actually work out as he hoped.
I am very happy with my Crucial M4 512gb. It definitely needs Trim. Small write performance dropped considerably over the first two months I had it, before enabling Trim.
i've got Samsung 830 (256GB), i'll move the HDD to the optibay and planing to move the Home folder or some of it (with Symbolic link) to the HDD... the question is -
how do you backup after moving the Home folder to the second HDD ?
im using SuperDuper, is it going to make the backup normal (seeing this setting as one HDD), or do i need to backup the 2 HDD separately ???
and what happen if im using Symbolic link only for few parts (would like to keep the Home Library on the SSD) from the Home folder ???
or should i move\copy to the second HDD only the data (music, movies, projects etc.) like i did in the past on my dead G5... and then to make backups for each HDD separately???
im planing to make this move the next days, as soon as my optibay will come... and not shore with one of the options is the best way with the backups...
how do you backup after moving the Home folder to the second HDD ?
im using SuperDuper, is it going to make the backup normal (seeing this setting as one HDD), or do i need to backup the 2 HDD separately ???
and what happen if im using Symbolic link only for few parts (would like to keep the Home Library on the SSD) from the Home folder ???
or should i move\copy to the second HDD only the data (music, movies, projects etc.) like i did in the past on my dead G5... and then to make backups for each HDD separately???
im planing to make this move the next days, as soon as my optibay will come... and not shore with one of the options is the best way with the backups...
I have to disagree with you on most of your points here. Trim isn't important you say. Maybe not as much as it used to be but it is there for a reason.
How doesn't Trim make the drive more reliable and running optimal? The drive doesn't have to wait to idle for GC to occur, Trim does it in real time, so you have optimal speeds all the time. It is better to have Trim than not to have Trim regardless. Is it necessary, no. Will you notice it, probably not. Can it hurt not in the least.
Are you getting the most out of your SSD without Trim enabled, no you're not. Is it better to have a SSD that supports Trim and runs optimal all the time or one that is faster and doesn't run Trim and not optimal all the time?
Is it really worth it in real world use when you use random 4K data most of the time? Can you tell the difference in a Crucial M4 or Apple SSD in real world use? No probably not. Transferring files yes, other than that most likely no.
It means that it's physically possible for the m4, if hammered with a particularly gruesome workload (or a mostly naughty workload for a longer period of time), to end up in a pretty poor performance state. I had the same complaint about the C300 if you'll remember from last year. If you're running an OS without TRIM support, then the m4 is a definite pass. Even with TRIM enabled and a sufficiently random workload, you'll want to skip the m4 as well.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4253/the-crucial-m4-micron-c400-ssd-review/2
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2738/8
I am not saying you need trim to have a good running drive. Nor am I saying you don't need trim. I personally feel more comfortable with it enabled. To each his own. I would not own a drive without firmware support, and trim support on the OS I am using. That is just me. And without being covered under warranty by the person who makes my laptop. But again, that is me, and to each their own. I don't have time for hacks that can be undone with a OS update or new OS.
I had one with a bad port that I bought off a vendor and installed by my IT dept, Apple replaced the drive. No questions asked.
I would warrant against getting a old used drive. A new pull or new is best. But you are wrong on the warranty. I have a Apple SSD in everyone of my Apple machines, and all the ones that I put in by my IT staff is warranted under Apple's warranty.
Now I have a business account, but that doesn't matter. My warranty is just on a larger scale. Not once has apple denied my coverage. I even asked if it is under warranty, and talked to them when they come to my business on site.
They even recommended the Apple SSD because it would be covered under warranty. Third party SSD's of coarse are not. If you take it to a repair center and they put in a different fan, it's not covered under warranty if it's a Apple part? of coarse it is.
If is covered same as any other part of your machine is covered. Since Apple doesn't discriminate between parts, as long as they are Apple parts.
As I stated in my post the firmware updates which were numerous, were part of OS updates, and yes as I stated before they are avail as well.
When the 2012 OEM Samsung Apple drives are avail, I will be picking one up for my 2011 MBP. Then we will have a good performing SSD WITH native trim enabled. The best of both worlds.
I am thinking about biting the bullet and buying a 2012 model with a factory SSD, but I don't like the fact that Apple charges me $450! They are trying to steer everyone to the Retina, which I understand. But if I can pick one up for less and put it in my 2011 MBP all the better.
I run my business on my machines, and cannot have a third party drive that might not work or isn't covered under Apple's warranty.
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Just got a 2012 Macbook Pro and since the Samsung 830 256GB SSD is now sitting at around £140 I'm going to go for it.
From doing some reading on this forum I assume all I really need to do is install the drive as normal, enable TRIM and then just use as normal?
Is there anything else you need to do to make sure the drive is looked after correctly over time?
From doing some reading on this forum I assume all I really need to do is install the drive as normal, enable TRIM and then just use as normal?
Is there anything else you need to do to make sure the drive is looked after correctly over time?
I'm not interested in a long debate about TRIM with you as this issue is not clear cut either way. More recent and comprehensive tests of garbage collection show drives recover performance just fine without TRIM.
The suggestion was for the user to buy a used Apple OEM pull from eBay and place that in his machine. That will not be covered by warranty. Your situation with an Apple business account and new Apple parts from an Apple installer is not the same scenario being discussed here.
So we are back to the same issue. Used Apple OEM with no warranty or a new aftermarket drive with warranty. One with native TRIM, the other without.
Nor am i. And no we are not back to the same issue. Let me clear up what is covered and what is not covered and why, having a business account with Apple for over ten years you learn what is covered and what is not trust me. This is for anyone who wants clairty on what is covered and what is not.
As you might know that the Ram and HD are user 'upgrade-able parts'. Meaning you can change them out without voiding your warranty. But they will not be covered if they are third party parts. If they are Apple parts and they are approved parts for your machine then it is covered under warranty.
This is the best example I can give you. Say if I take my old MacBook Pro ram and put it into a imac to go from 4GB to 8GB and the ram I take out of my MBP is Hynix and the ram I have in my imac is Samsung you mean to tell me the warranty is void? Even though both are Apple Ram and approved parts for your machine. Even though my machine came with only 4GB and now it has 8GB, now my warranty is void? Of coarse it's not. Same situation with the HD.
The key words here are 'your machine'. Which doesn't mean just 'your machine' as in yours only as most believe but your model of machine, 2011 15 MBP 2.2, or 2011 MBP 2.5 have different model numbers, but other than the CPU they have the same warranted approved parts since they are in the same model year for example.
The suggestion was to get a 'newer pull' still used but newer or even 'new' Apple SSD, not just a used one. One that would be covered under warranty.
like I said, a third party SSD will run fine without Trim, you will probably not even notice it without Trim. I am not the expert here on the subject, but judging from what hellhammer in his reviews and Andatech's GC is very good on current drives, you probably don't need it. Depending on the drive, some need it more than others. It is not clear cut. Performance varies with each drive, and GC varies with each drive.
What is clear cut is that a SSD runs better with Trim enabled, and provides optimal performance with it enabled more than without it. A SSD without trim will not run as efficient with Trim enabled, I don't care how good the firmware GC is. You know that and I know that.
Like I said, twice already. A new Apple SSD, or a newer pull Apple SSD is, let me say that again, and put it bold because it seems you missed it before. IS, covered under warranty. But it has to be a newer Apple SSD, of coarse they will not cover a SSD that you cannot order with the laptop as a BTO. Apple 2010 SSD into a 2010 MBP, Apple 2011 SSD into a 2011 MBP for example.
Do you know how many people I give SSD's too? Let's see, my marketing manager, brother in law, father in law, etc. Do they have a business accounts too? And even if you did have a business account, would it matter? No it would not.
For example, I had to find my brother in law a 2010 Toshiba BBAA Apple SSD which is from 2010 to go in his 2010 Macbook pro because the Apple repair center I sent him too said the one I gave him a 2011 Toshiba GBSJ model number is not a authorized part for his model year of MBP. I actually had to find him a older part, which I did and it was used. Guess what? It was covered under warranty.
They have a list of approved parts for each model number(model year) and as long as it is on that list, it is covered under warranty. It's as simple as that. Weather your MBP came with it or not.
I have been told from Apple IT staff, business customer care, Certified Apple repair centers, that if it is a OEM Apple part and a current gen part that they are currently using, SSD, Fan, and it is for the current gen for your machine and a approved part for your machine, that is would be covered and is covered under warranty. If I try and put my Toshiba SSD that is from 2011 into a 2012 MBP that has a different part number, no they will not cover it. But if you put a 2011 SSD into a 2011 MBP, yes they will cover it. But it is only covered as long as your laptop. Thats it.
They even installed the drives into my brother in laws MBP, as well as my father in law MBP. Try doing that with a non Apple SSD. Provided service for one of the drives on my father in law laptop on how to restore his backup to the new drive. If it was not covered under warranty, would they do that, would they tell me it's not covered under warranty?
I have been dealing with Apple for the last ten years. I know what is covered under warranty and what is not covered,as I have a business account with them.
And a business account the same rules apply as a customer account. Same rules, no different. The only difference is that they provide service on site for all of my problems with my devices, laptops, mac pros, imacs etc. If I alter those products with third party parts, the warranty will not cover those parts.
See how easy this is.
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Just put in a M4 256GB SSD in my new 2012 MBP 15 Base last night. I used a CCC to copy everything over from MBA and used it to restore to the original HDD and then again made a CCC backup to the SSD and put it in.
Speedtest shows about 260MB write and 500MB read. Is it normal??
Of course, I cannot feel any difference in actual speed between this SSD and MBA 2011 256GB Samsung flash storage.
Speedtest shows about 260MB write and 500MB read. Is it normal??
Of course, I cannot feel any difference in actual speed between this SSD and MBA 2011 256GB Samsung flash storage.
Dam, this TRIM stuff is confusing!
All i wanted to do was upgrade my 13" mid 2010 MBP with a 128GB SSD, but this TRIM support is so confusing!
Reading stuff i found on Google Search, TRIM works under Lion automatically? Correct?
is there a plug and play SSD where all i have to do is connect it up and install SL then Lion, then leave it?
All i wanted to do was upgrade my 13" mid 2010 MBP with a 128GB SSD, but this TRIM support is so confusing!
Reading stuff i found on Google Search, TRIM works under Lion automatically? Correct?
is there a plug and play SSD where all i have to do is connect it up and install SL then Lion, then leave it?
lol fair enough, but i dont wanna lose performance or damage the drive.
also what drive did you go with?
Yesterday i just bought 120GB Intel 520 SSD , put in my Mac Mini 2009 (Late) , at first i doing CCC from my old hard disk (10.7.4) and it give me some minor problem ... sometime it hang keep loading without any program is running,
than no choice try fresh install again still same (OSX 10.6.8) i read some forum say better to have OSX Lion is u running SSD , this time i deleted the partition and use GDUID partition again install 10.6.8 and upgrade to Lion i only have a upgrade version of Lion not full version.. for this time seem to be good ... no hang and nothing ... and i able to enable the TRIM ...
hope this can help
Guide to Enable the Trim for non Apple SSD (only for OSX 10.7 and above)
http://www.storagereview.com/how_enable_trim_nonapple_ssd
than no choice try fresh install again still same (OSX 10.6.8) i read some forum say better to have OSX Lion is u running SSD , this time i deleted the partition and use GDUID partition again install 10.6.8 and upgrade to Lion i only have a upgrade version of Lion not full version.. for this time seem to be good ... no hang and nothing ... and i able to enable the TRIM ...
hope this can help
Guide to Enable the Trim for non Apple SSD (only for OSX 10.7 and above)
http://www.storagereview.com/how_enable_trim_nonapple_ssd
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I went with the Crucial M4 256GB. Seemed like a solid popular choice and price was good from Amazon. Bought a 15" MBP yesterday and I can't stand the 5400RPM drive that came with it.
I figured unless I noticed some slow down with my SSD, it wasn't worth worrying about or turning on TRIM.
I went with the crucial m4 for my 2008 MBP but I'm thinking about the samsung 830 for my new 2012 MBP 13". I think the performance won't matter but I'm a little concerned about reliability on th e m4 but I probably shouldn't be. Seems a lot of the 1 star ratings on amazon was because of the 5184 hours bug that was fixed by the fw update.
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