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SSD Drives for Mac Pro Boot Drive?

NoManIsland said:
Hello Nanofrog! I found this alternative to the Stardom Pro Drive, and I'm wondering if it would suffer from the same problems we discussed:

http://www.adata.com.tw/en/newscenter.php?news_id=338
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It would. (Appears to place both drives on a single port; either SATA or USB).

The only way to get around the throttling issue is to have adequate bandwidth. That means, 1x SATA port per drive. You can get away with PM chips and mechanical without a performance penalty in some cases, but not with SSD's, as they have too high a throughput for PM chips to handle (3.0Gb/s based).

So to do something like what this one is, would be get an eSATA card, and either a single enclosure (2x bay, with 2x SATA ports) or single enclosures per drive.

But because of booting requirements, this may be more expensive (i.e. there's only one bootable EFI eSATA card, and it's $229USD for 2x ports; PC versions can be had for under $20USD, and will boot BIOS). Not cheap, and you have to add the drives and enclosure/s (I presume the enclosure would come with an eSATA cable/s, otherwise you'd need those too).
 
Hey nanofrog, been pouring through this post and I'm pleased and impressed with your knowledge on this topic.

I just had a quick question for you. First, the background:

Mac Pro 1,1 (2006 Model)
2x 2.66GHz Intel Xeon Quad Core
8GB DDR2 FB-DIMM ECC RAM
HD Bay 1: 1TB media drive
HD Bay 2: 500GB boot/applications drive
HD Bay 3: 1TB backup/archive drive
HD Bay 4 is empty

I just purchased the Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive from NewEgg. I'm planning on using it as a boot drive for OS X and apps. 80GB should be plenty as I've only used 55GB on my current 500GB boot drive, and I'll have that whole 500GB drive as additional storage, plus the 2 other 1TB drives.

Which bay should I use for the SSD, or does it matter? And is there anything else I should know about this configuration? It should just all work, correct? Fingers crossed.

I understand a 128k stripe size setting is the best choice for this drive, and there is some sort of firmware issue that needs to be updated, but seems there are instructions for doing that on a Mac floating around online.

Thanks so much for your time, really appreciate the expertise input.
 
pfjellman said:
Which bay should I use for the SSD, or does it matter? And is there anything else I should know about this configuration? It should just all work, correct? Fingers crossed.

I understand a 128k stripe size setting is the best choice for this drive, and there is some sort of firmware issue that needs to be updated, but seems there are instructions for doing that on a Mac floating around online.
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Here's the thread on updating the firmware... note that there was some issues with using Bay 1 to update the firmware but it's otherwise not an issue to locate the drive there for actual use.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/686672/

A 128K stripe is the best from what I've read due to the write-amplification issues with SSD's. It means the performance benefits of RAID0 are limited to larger sequential reads but the random read performance is already through the roof so it's not like that needs any help. It will mean that writes are less impacted by the write-erase-block penalty which is a legitimate concern.
 
Final question - this is the exact drive I bought - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

From the pictures, it looks like it comes with a metal rail to fit the drive into a 3.5" drive slot. Will I still need an IcyDock or SATA extension cable to install this drive into the Mac Pro's hard drive bay? Or will it fit properly. Thanks!

Quoted from the website:

Includes installation kit that contains: 3.5" desktop drive bay adapter to 2.5" SSD adapter bracket, screws, installation guide, and warranty documentation
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pfjellman said:
Which bay should I use for the SSD, or does it matter? And is there anything else I should know about this configuration? It should just all work, correct? Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
With the retail version, you can mount it in any HDD bay you want.

pfjellman said:
I understand a 128k stripe size setting is the best choice for this drive...
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It is.

pfjellman said:
Final question - this is the exact drive I bought - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023

From the pictures, it looks like it comes with a metal rail to fit the drive into a 3.5" drive slot. Will I still need an IcyDock or SATA extension cable to install this drive into the Mac Pro's hard drive bay? Or will it fit properly. Thanks!
Click to expand...
That is the retail version, which comes with an adapter that will allow you to mount it in a 3.5" bay (others have used it successfully). 🙂 So there won't be any need to order the Icy Dock adapter at all. 😉
 
Beautiful! I've been a Mac user and software developer for 15+ years, been using iMacs and MacBook Pros. Just 2 weeks ago picked up a Mac Pro, first Mac Pro or PowerMac I've ever had. Super stoked about how fast and expandable it is. I'm installing an XFX Radeon HD 4870 1GB video card and that SSD drive, both arrive from NewEgg on Saturday morning.

I will post my results with benchmarks before and after, and if I had to do anything special to get the setup working properly.

Thanks again to everyone for compiling this great wealth of information. Can't wait for Saturday! My new computer will feel like a whole new computer. Again. 😎
 
nanofrog said:
That is the retail version, which comes with an adapter that will allow you to mount it in a 3.5" bay (others have used it successfully). 🙂 So there won't be any need to order the Icy Dock adapter at all. 😉
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Would you mind posting a link to someone who has used it successfully? I don't see how it's possible. The sata connectors don't line up with the intel bracket. Maybe it's a 2006 mac pro thing...
 
bld44 said:
Would you mind posting a link to someone who has used it successfully? I don't see how it's possible. The sata connectors don't line up with the intel bracket. Maybe it's a 2006 mac pro thing...
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I don't think that will work with the 2008/09 machines which rely on backplane like SATA connectors. It would only work on more conventional drive bays which I'm guessing were what the 2006/07 machines used.

For the 08/09's you really need something like the IcyDock.
 
VirtualRain said:
I don't think that will work with the 2008/09 machines which rely on backplane like SATA connectors. It would only work on more conventional drive bays which I'm guessing were what the 2006/07 machines used.

For the 08/09's you really need something like the IcyDock.
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I'm using a 2006 Mac Pro. The adapter lines the SSD's sata ports about dead center in the harddrive dock, where as it should be to towards the left side and not in the center. I guess Icy Dock is needed here too, but the Intel adapter is worthless.
 
Generally easiest to just mount it in the second optical bay so you don't end up overpaying for silly adapters. Use the included 3.5" adapter with a cheap 5.25" adapter and your problem is solved for under $10. Or just velcro it in place.
 
VirtualRain said:
I don't think that will work with the 2008/09 machines which rely on backplane like SATA connectors. It would only work on more conventional drive bays which I'm guessing were what the 2006/07 machines used.

For the 08/09's you really need something like the IcyDock.
Click to expand...

2006/2007/2008 Mac Pro all used identical mounting systems. 2009 is slightly different, but not by much. Just enough to make the sleds incompatible 😀
 
bld44 said:
Would you mind posting a link to someone who has used it successfully? I don't see how it's possible. The sata connectors don't line up with the intel bracket. Maybe it's a 2006 mac pro thing...
Click to expand...
I could have sworn someone had managed it, but couldn't locate it in a quick search. 😱

grue said:
Generally easiest to just mount it in the second optical bay so you don't end up overpaying for silly adapters. Use the included 3.5" adapter with a cheap 5.25" adapter and your problem is solved for under $10. Or just velcro it in place.
Click to expand...
I didn't make it clear this time around, but I actually prefer the idea of using the optical bay, as it leaves the 3.5" HDD bays open for mechanical drives.

There's newer mounts that are inexpensive (i.e. Scythe 3x SSD in 5.25" bay Rafter), DIY, or just not even bother using one.
 
grue said:
Generally easiest to just mount it in the second optical bay so you don't end up overpaying for silly adapters. Use the included 3.5" adapter with a cheap 5.25" adapter and your problem is solved for under $10. Or just velcro it in place.
Click to expand...

I guess I was one of the only few who bought and uses the second optical bay frequently. Is there any room below the 2nd optical bay if it's occupied? Maybe half an inch?

Right now I mounted it up using rubber bands, but only want to leave it this way temporarily. Figure I could always rest it to the side of the video card using the extra sata ports on the logic board.
 
grue said:
2006/2007/2008 Mac Pro all used identical mounting systems. 2009 is slightly different, but not by much. Just enough to make the sleds incompatible 😀
Click to expand...

I see... I wasn't sure what was going on with the 06/07 but assumed that since Nano said it would work, that it would work. 😀
 
ungraphic said:
How about this one in a first gen. mac pro:

Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2BD/128GB for $280

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Produc...136&cm_re=kingston_ssd-_-20-139-136-_-Product

would I still get problems?? is trim ever coming to mac? do i need it?
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I'm not sure, but a quick search seemed to indicate this is one of the first-gen drives based on the JMicron controller... If that's true, I would avoid it.

It would be nice if OSX added TRIM support, and I'm sure they will in time, but for now, you can restore your drive to factory-fresh condition by using the secure erase process once or twice a year.
 
VirtualRain said:
I'm not sure, but a quick search seemed to indicate this is one of the first-gen drives based on the JMicron controller... If that's true, I would avoid it.

It would be nice if OSX added TRIM support, and I'm sure they will in time, but for now, you can restore your drive to factory-fresh condition by using the secure erase process once or twice a year.
Click to expand...

whats secure erase? how does it work?
 
ungraphic said:
whats secure erase? how does it work?
Click to expand...

Secure erase is the process of marking all flash blocks as unutilized - it's the equivalent to doing a low-level format on a hard drive. TRIM does the same thing on an ongoing basis when files are deleted, moved, etc.

Here's the process for doing it on a Mac...https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/841182/

It's a non-trivial operation, but you really only need to do it every 6-12 months.

If you want to know more, I suggest reading the series of articles that Anand published on SSD's over the last year or two... http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631
 
VirtualRain said:
Secure erase is the process of marking all flash blocks as unutilized - it's the equivalent to doing a low-level format on a hard drive. TRIM does the same thing on an ongoing basis when files are deleted, moved, etc.

Here's the process for doing it on a Mac...https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/841182/

It's a non-trivial operation, but you really only need to do it every 6-12 months.

If you want to know more, I suggest reading the series of articles that Anand published on SSD's over the last year or two... http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631
Click to expand...


Hmm! That looks like a fairly 'decent' workaround. My Mac Pro's boot drive is used ONLY as a boot drive (and storing some light documents).

With that said, is it really necessary for it to be secure erased every 12 months? I've found myself doing a 'format' every year or so anyway.....

I wish apple would hurry up and add TRIM support.
 
ungraphic said:
Hmm! That looks like a fairly 'decent' workaround. My Mac Pro's boot drive is used ONLY as a boot drive (and storing some light documents).

With that said, is it really necessary for it to be secure erased every 12 months? I've found myself doing a 'format' every year or so anyway.....

I wish apple would hurry up and add TRIM support.
Click to expand...

If you are doing a format and clean re-install of OSX once a year, then that's the perfect time to reset your SSD with a secure erase.
 
Hard drive arrived today, but it will not fit into the Mac Pro's HDD bay. It screws in just fine but the sata port does't line up anywhere near close to where it's supposed to be. What's my next step? I'm quite disappointed as I have read that others got it working no problem. Obviously there's a missing step.... any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
^ ICYDOCK is what you need. It's about $20 on ebay. It puts your SSD in a 3.5" sized mount.


When spending hundreds of $$ on an SSD - a fairly low priced dock and one thats well made such as ICYDOCK should not be an issue.

Damn site cheaper than screwing up your new SSD or MacPro trying to force a square peg into a round hole..
 
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