• Did you order new AirTags? We've opened a dedicated AirTags forum.

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
Can someone please explain to me why Macs so desperately need a SSD but Windows does not? I mean I use Windows at work, and my wife has Windows and the apps open in seconds (especially Office) with a standard non SSD hard drive, yet on the Mac Office can take minutes to launch on a standard HD. Thanks..
 

Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
7,694
2,123
Can someone please explain to me why Macs so desperately need a SSD but Windows does not? I mean I use Windows at work, and my wife has Windows and the apps open in seconds (especially Office) with a standard non SSD hard drive, yet on the Mac Office can take minutes to launch on a standard HD. Thanks..

You'll have to ask Microsoft, it's their coding.
 
Comment

JTToft

macrumors 68040
Apr 27, 2010
3,447
792
Aarhus, Denmark
Almost all of Apple's computers come with SSDs built in, so OS X doesn't need the be optimised for hard drives - hence it isn't. Windows has to run on hundreds of different machines with varying hardware.
 
Comment

oldmacs

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2010
4,564
6,346
Australia
Almost all of Apple's computers come with SSDs built in, so OS X doesn't need the be optimised for hard drives - hence it isn't. Windows has to run on hundreds of different machines with varying hardware.

Besides the majority of their desktop range.. and one of their best selling Macbook Pros...

OSX is horrible on hard drives and it shouldn't be, it should be optimised so it runs well on HDDs and even better on SSDs.
 
Comment

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
67,871
35,337
Boston
Windows is running on all different sorts of hardware so MS, makes sure there's a high level of caching and keeping things in memory to avoid accessing the HD, where as OS X, is mostly only computers with SSDs, so Apple can optimize the OS to interact with the fast storage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bobcan and JTToft
Comment

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
Almost all of Apple's computers come with SSDs built in, so OS X doesn't need the be optimised for hard drives - hence it isn't. Windows has to run on hundreds of different machines with varying hardware.

Yes but for many years OS X ran on a non SSD hard drive and it still was slower than Windows.
[doublepost=1466597625][/doublepost]
Windows is running on all different sorts of hardware so MS, makes sure there's a high level of caching and keeping things in memory to avoid accessing the HD, where as OS X, is mostly only computers with SSDs, so Apple can optimize the OS to interact with the fast storage.

So that was their coding back when SSD's where not around? Back in OS X Tiger even?
 
Comment

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
67,871
35,337
Boston
So that was their coding back when SSD's where not around? Back in OS X Tiger even?
I would assume back then, they had coded for the hard drive, and when SSDs became the norm for Macs, they made sure to take advantage of them - I'm not sure why bringing up legacy operating systems relates to the current discussion since Apple no doubt worked on optimization on what was then current technology.
 
Comment

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
I would assume back then, they had coded for the hard drive, and when SSDs became the norm for Macs, they made sure to take advantage of them - I'm not sure why bringing up legacy operating systems relates to the current discussion since Apple no doubt worked on optimization on what was then current technology.

Macs were then slower at launching apps than Windows for regular hard drives.
 
Comment

xWhiplash

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
3,738
2,420
Windows definitely needs an SSD. Windows 7 more than Windows 10. I am surprised how well Windows 10 runs on spinning drives. But I have had Windows 7 run absolutely horrible on spinning drives.

Try installing Windows Update on a spinning drive. It takes ages!

It also depends on the hard drive. 5400 rpm vs 7200 rpm vs 10000 rpm. And not all drives are the same. If it is a work hard drive, it MIGHT be a higher class drive (like the WD black instead of a WD blue). Those WD Blues are extremely slow (the ones on our office at least) even though they are 7200 RPM!

Macs were not slower or faster than Windows with launching programs. It was the same. Actually my experience was much better because I used to buy the cheapest HDD I could find for my Windows systems. When I got my 2010 Mac Pro, it was MUCH better.
 
Last edited:
Comment

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
67,871
35,337
Boston
Macs were then slower at launching apps than Windows for regular hard drives.
Perhaps, but that's ancient history at this point. What is known today is that OS X (or as its now called macOS), is much faster on SSDs.
 
Comment

robvas

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2009
3,240
626
USA
Windows is slow as crap without an SSD. Office loads faster because Microsoft wrote it that way (parts of it automatically load before you open Word/Excel etc)
 
Comment

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
Windows is slow as crap without an SSD. Office loads faster because Microsoft wrote it that way (parts of it automatically load before you open Word/Excel etc)

Not true in my experience. Windows 7 actually runs quite fast.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerryk
Comment

xWhiplash

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
3,738
2,420
Not true in my experience. Windows 7 actually runs quite fast.

What is your HDD? What is the HDD RPM? What is the cache? One 7200 RPM is not the same as another. Windows 7 runs incredibly slow on some of the WD Blue drives here. Sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to even start up on a fresh new OS install, and you can hear the HDD going crazy.

The best upgrade you can ever make to any computer running Windows is replacing the HDD with a SSD. It is such a major difference.

However, I will say HDDs have become a lot better. Especially the WD Black 5TB or 6TB. I have the 5TB drive and it bursts on file copy around 400 MB/s for about 15-20 seconds. Then it goes to around 210 MB/s. However, SSDs still beat HDDs due to the small reads and writes.
 
Comment

xWhiplash

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
3,738
2,420
That is true with any computer, regardless of OS.

Um, yes? I was replying to him when he said Windows 7 runs fine on HDD. Therefore, I said Windows.
[doublepost=1466615141][/doublepost]
And it runs even better on a SSD.

Either way, I get where you're coming from. My desktop PC at work is fairly quick even with the 250GB 5400rpm HDD.

I have used dozens of 5400 RPM drives and none of them are even close to being quick. Do you guys just use browsers all day? Even Office on those 5400 RPM drives with Dynamics CRM add-on takes a good 1 minute to start. Don't even get me started on Visual Studio with Resharper. That takes a good 15 seconds even on an SSD. It takes a VERY VERY long time on a 5400 RPM drive.
 
Comment

T5BRICK

macrumors G3
Aug 3, 2006
8,167
2,183
Oregon
I have used dozens of 5400 RPM drives and none of them are even close to being quick. Do you guys just use browsers all day? Even Office on those 5400 RPM drives with Dynamics CRM add-on takes a good 1 minute to start. Don't even get me started on Visual Studio with Resharper. That takes a good 15 seconds even on an SSD. It takes a VERY VERY long time on a 5400 RPM drive.

I use a browser, yes. I also use Office. Excel and Word take 5-10 seconds to open. Sometimes a little longer if the pivot table is huge. Our ERP system is slow to load, but it's mostly running over the network so I can't blame that on the HDD.

I'm not saying that SSDs aren't faster, I'm saying that Windows is usable without a SSD. I don't LIKE using OSX/macOS on a HDD, but it is also usable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jwolf6589
Comment

JTToft

macrumors 68040
Apr 27, 2010
3,447
792
Aarhus, Denmark
Besides the majority of their desktop range.. and one of their best selling Macbook Pros...
- It's true that the classic MacBook Pro and some desktops come standard with hard drives, but only the lowest end configurations. And all of them are available with SSDs as well.
 
Comment

robvas

macrumors 68040
Mar 29, 2009
3,240
626
USA
Not true in my experience. Windows 7 actually runs quite fast.
Not really.

Worst is Windows updates. Better find something to do while those run!

I use Windows 7 every day. Had a desktop with 500GB 7200RPM HD. Upgraded with a 240GB SSD. Got a new laptop with a 500GB hybrid drive. Booted up fast but everything else was still slow. Added a 250GB Samsung SSD and it's usable again!
 
Comment

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
Not really.

Worst is Windows updates. Better find something to do while those run!

I use Windows 7 every day. Had a desktop with 500GB 7200RPM HD. Upgraded with a 240GB SSD. Got a new laptop with a 500GB hybrid drive. Booted up fast but everything else was still slow. Added a 250GB Samsung SSD and it's usable again!

Use Windows 7 at work and its quite fast. Yes a slower CPU will be slower but thats expected. Try running it on a 1-2 year old PC and see the difference. My wife has a PC with Windows 10 and a regular hard drive and its lightning fast. No complaints about speed one bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jerryk
Comment

jerryk

Contributor
Nov 3, 2011
6,760
3,672
SF Bay Area
Use Windows 7 at work and its quite fast. Yes a slower CPU will be slower but thats expected. Try running it on a 1-2 year old PC and see the difference. My wife has a PC with Windows 10 and a regular hard drive and its lightning fast. No complaints about speed one bit.

Windows 10 is definitely faster. Getting rid of Aero (transparent windows etc) and some of the old security stuff that never worked as intended seem to have made it faster.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jwolf6589
Comment

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,850
734
Auckland
Can someone please explain to me why Macs so desperately need a SSD but Windows does not? I mean I use Windows at work, and my wife has Windows and the apps open in seconds (especially Office) with a standard non SSD hard drive, yet on the Mac Office can take minutes to launch on a standard HD. Thanks..

Likely the Mac version of office just loads the entire app before coming ready for use, I suspect the Win version loads the interface and core then becomes available, then loads further code in the background. Also the Win version has more dev effort applied to it over time, which will be invested in newer coding techniques to possibly reduce the size of code that has to be loaded.

In OSX once the app is loaded it will stay in RAM unless something else needs the space so subsequent loads should be direct from RAM and not need the HDD to be accessed, this may or may not be the case with Win.
 
Comment

jwolf6589

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
2,390
450
Colorado
Windows 10 is definitely faster. Getting rid of Aero (transparent windows etc) and some of the old security stuff that never worked as intended seem to have made it faster.

One of these days I will get a SSD for my MacBook Pro but not today. I spent quite a bit for this machine, and at the time SSD's were expensive and did not offer much GB's. Apps can take sometime to load for the first time, but once everything is running the Mac is fine as I have 8GB's of RAM.
 
Comment

oldmacs

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2010
4,564
6,346
Australia
- It's true that the classic MacBook Pro and some desktops come standard with hard drives, but only the lowest end configurations. And all of them are available with SSDs as well.

The majority of iMacs and Mac Minis are sold with HDDs and that means the majority of configurations, you've got to buy BTO Macs in order to upgrade to SSDs.
 
Comment
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.