SSD hard drives

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by jwolf6589, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. jwolf6589 macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #1
    Can someone please explain to me why Macs so desperately need a SSD but Windows does not? I mean I use Windows at work, and my wife has Windows and the apps open in seconds (especially Office) with a standard non SSD hard drive, yet on the Mac Office can take minutes to launch on a standard HD. Thanks..
     
  2. Samuelsan2001 macrumors 603

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    #2
    You'll have to ask Microsoft, it's their coding.
     
  3. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    #3
    Almost all of Apple's computers come with SSDs built in, so OS X doesn't need the be optimised for hard drives - hence it isn't. Windows has to run on hundreds of different machines with varying hardware.
     
  4. oldmacs macrumors 68040

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    #4
    Besides the majority of their desktop range.. and one of their best selling Macbook Pros...

    OSX is horrible on hard drives and it shouldn't be, it should be optimised so it runs well on HDDs and even better on SSDs.
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #5
    Windows is running on all different sorts of hardware so MS, makes sure there's a high level of caching and keeping things in memory to avoid accessing the HD, where as OS X, is mostly only computers with SSDs, so Apple can optimize the OS to interact with the fast storage.
     
  6. jwolf6589 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #6
    Yes but for many years OS X ran on a non SSD hard drive and it still was slower than Windows.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 22, 2016 ---
    So that was their coding back when SSD's where not around? Back in OS X Tiger even?
     
  7. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #7
    I would assume back then, they had coded for the hard drive, and when SSDs became the norm for Macs, they made sure to take advantage of them - I'm not sure why bringing up legacy operating systems relates to the current discussion since Apple no doubt worked on optimization on what was then current technology.
     
  8. jwolf6589 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #8
    Macs were then slower at launching apps than Windows for regular hard drives.
     
  9. xWhiplash, Jun 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2016

    xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    #9
    Windows definitely needs an SSD. Windows 7 more than Windows 10. I am surprised how well Windows 10 runs on spinning drives. But I have had Windows 7 run absolutely horrible on spinning drives.

    Try installing Windows Update on a spinning drive. It takes ages!

    It also depends on the hard drive. 5400 rpm vs 7200 rpm vs 10000 rpm. And not all drives are the same. If it is a work hard drive, it MIGHT be a higher class drive (like the WD black instead of a WD blue). Those WD Blues are extremely slow (the ones on our office at least) even though they are 7200 RPM!

    Macs were not slower or faster than Windows with launching programs. It was the same. Actually my experience was much better because I used to buy the cheapest HDD I could find for my Windows systems. When I got my 2010 Mac Pro, it was MUCH better.
     
  10. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #10
    Perhaps, but that's ancient history at this point. What is known today is that OS X (or as its now called macOS), is much faster on SSDs.
     
  11. robvas macrumors 68020

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    #11
    Windows is slow as crap without an SSD. Office loads faster because Microsoft wrote it that way (parts of it automatically load before you open Word/Excel etc)
     
  12. jwolf6589 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #12
    Not true in my experience. Windows 7 actually runs quite fast.
     
  13. xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    #13
    What is your HDD? What is the HDD RPM? What is the cache? One 7200 RPM is not the same as another. Windows 7 runs incredibly slow on some of the WD Blue drives here. Sometimes takes 1-2 minutes to even start up on a fresh new OS install, and you can hear the HDD going crazy.

    The best upgrade you can ever make to any computer running Windows is replacing the HDD with a SSD. It is such a major difference.

    However, I will say HDDs have become a lot better. Especially the WD Black 5TB or 6TB. I have the 5TB drive and it bursts on file copy around 400 MB/s for about 15-20 seconds. Then it goes to around 210 MB/s. However, SSDs still beat HDDs due to the small reads and writes.
     
  14. T5BRICK macrumors 604

    T5BRICK

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    #14
    And it runs even better on a SSD.

    Either way, I get where you're coming from. My desktop PC at work is fairly quick even with the 250GB 5400rpm HDD.
     
  15. jerryk macrumors 68020

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    #15
    That is true with any computer, regardless of OS.
     
  16. xWhiplash macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Um, yes? I was replying to him when he said Windows 7 runs fine on HDD. Therefore, I said Windows.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 22, 2016 ---
    I have used dozens of 5400 RPM drives and none of them are even close to being quick. Do you guys just use browsers all day? Even Office on those 5400 RPM drives with Dynamics CRM add-on takes a good 1 minute to start. Don't even get me started on Visual Studio with Resharper. That takes a good 15 seconds even on an SSD. It takes a VERY VERY long time on a 5400 RPM drive.
     
  17. T5BRICK macrumors 604

    T5BRICK

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    #17
    I use a browser, yes. I also use Office. Excel and Word take 5-10 seconds to open. Sometimes a little longer if the pivot table is huge. Our ERP system is slow to load, but it's mostly running over the network so I can't blame that on the HDD.

    I'm not saying that SSDs aren't faster, I'm saying that Windows is usable without a SSD. I don't LIKE using OSX/macOS on a HDD, but it is also usable.
     
  18. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    #18
    - It's true that the classic MacBook Pro and some desktops come standard with hard drives, but only the lowest end configurations. And all of them are available with SSDs as well.
     
  19. robvas macrumors 68020

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    #19
    Not really.

    Worst is Windows updates. Better find something to do while those run!

    I use Windows 7 every day. Had a desktop with 500GB 7200RPM HD. Upgraded with a 240GB SSD. Got a new laptop with a 500GB hybrid drive. Booted up fast but everything else was still slow. Added a 250GB Samsung SSD and it's usable again!
     
  20. jwolf6589 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #20
    Use Windows 7 at work and its quite fast. Yes a slower CPU will be slower but thats expected. Try running it on a 1-2 year old PC and see the difference. My wife has a PC with Windows 10 and a regular hard drive and its lightning fast. No complaints about speed one bit.
     
  21. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #21
    I use a windows 7 machine every day as well, and I find the performance fine, and its on a plodding spinning hard drive and not a SSD.
     
  22. jerryk macrumors 68020

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    #22
    Windows 10 is definitely faster. Getting rid of Aero (transparent windows etc) and some of the old security stuff that never worked as intended seem to have made it faster.
     
  23. simonsi macrumors 601

    simonsi

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    #23
    Likely the Mac version of office just loads the entire app before coming ready for use, I suspect the Win version loads the interface and core then becomes available, then loads further code in the background. Also the Win version has more dev effort applied to it over time, which will be invested in newer coding techniques to possibly reduce the size of code that has to be loaded.

    In OSX once the app is loaded it will stay in RAM unless something else needs the space so subsequent loads should be direct from RAM and not need the HDD to be accessed, this may or may not be the case with Win.
     
  24. jwolf6589 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jwolf6589

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    #24
    One of these days I will get a SSD for my MacBook Pro but not today. I spent quite a bit for this machine, and at the time SSD's were expensive and did not offer much GB's. Apps can take sometime to load for the first time, but once everything is running the Mac is fine as I have 8GB's of RAM.
     
  25. oldmacs macrumors 68040

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    #25
    The majority of iMacs and Mac Minis are sold with HDDs and that means the majority of configurations, you've got to buy BTO Macs in order to upgrade to SSDs.
     

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