Stage Manager Still Has Several Issues as iPadOS 16 Nears Release

[threesixty360]

I just think apple is trying to solve a problem that isn’t there. There isn’t really a need to provide traditional windowing for iPadOS.

This is evidenced by even as stage manager is here (admittedly buggy) it’s not very useful. It doesn’t enhance the usage of iPadOS at all. Especially on the 11 inch and even on the 12.9 it feels like a waste of time.

The big issue with the whole thing is that multi window environments where windows are tiled over one another is a design fail and has been from its inception. If you can’t see the window what use is it?

There’s a reason why side by side tiling, expose etc exist on both mac and windows. It’s to fix the glaring design flaw of windows overlapping in general.

The other issue is that windowing only works well when there is screen estate for it. That’s why when apple introduced the 11inch mac they introduced side by side tiling. To fix the fact that overlapping windowing isn’t very productive.

For some reason apple has spent over a decade creating a new OS paradigm that puts the actual application your using in the forefront of your screen, and now they want to bring back a 35 yr old UX failure.

I don’t get it? I’d prefer them to just allow multiple tiled windows both vertical and horizontal as can be handled by the screen estate (I.e. 14 inch future iPad or external
Monitor).

I kind of think they should remove it really. Keep the full screen external monitor stuff and extend tiling, that’s it. I think that would be brave of apple. To admit the mistake.

I’m not saying it’s complete crap but it’s just feels wrong. In their bid to get over the overlapping problem they tried to control how the positioning and resizing works instead of allowing the user to have full control. I think it just makes it worse really.

 

[madmaxmedia]

I think Stage Manager is novelty, but honestly, Apple would have been well to offer up external monitor support on iPads with at least A12X and higher. I don’t know what the system requirements are for that, but it would odd for a device with the power of the A12X, notably more powerful than available 13” MacBook Pros from 2018/2019 to not be able to power full external display support.

With respect to stage manager, I have left it turned off. It’s cumbersome and I find Split View and Slide Over just as good if not better than the current Stage Manager.

I would imagine good basic external monitor support (one app on each screen) would be less power-intensive than Stage Manager, and would be a lot easier to design the interface.

I also wonder if multiple desktop-type feature could be implemented the way it is on Mac. I don’t need to see multiple overlapping windows onscreen if I know which apps are to the left and right of my current screen. Swiping now to switch between apps doesn’t feel very intuitive to me- after I swipe to the left to go to the previous app, I feel like I should be able to swipe to the right to go back to the other app.

Combine the two together (multiple screens on multiple displays) would be great IMO. If they want to futz around with windows they can try that after getting the basics down.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Incorrect. All major OEM's (HP, Dell, Lenovo) have renewed interest in this form factor

And it’s specifically because companies are finally releasing the kind of chips that Apple had been waiting on since Skylake… chips that can actually provide decent performance in that small form factor form factor. All major OEM’s know that folks want light and performant and it’s the only market segment (ultra mobile) that Gartner sees growing the most over time.

 

[MAlbi]

staged manager

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Has nothing to do with DeX, but you already know that. People prefer iPad because it's the known quantity, and the apps and ecosystem are why people buy iPads over Samsung tablets.

The point being that if DeX was “really” world changing and with Samsung being the only provider, DeX compatible systems would be market leaders. As it is, DeX doesn’t sell.

If Apple offered nearly identical solution as DeX Apple fans would be touting how incredible it is.

Not likely, especially as most folks that want it don’t even agree on what a “nearly identical solution as DeX” would be. Some say it should run macOS apps, some don’t, for example. Or using their imagination to imbue DeX with powers it absolutely does not have. Which is why I say that folks that talk about DeX likely has never had to USE DeX. In my case, I’ve at least researched DeX.

You can defend the iPad Pro all you want, but won't change the fact that all those who paid upwards of $1500-$2400USD for an iPad Pro with 2TB and 16GB of RAM have a device that offers virtually no more productive flow than the $329 iPad.

Yes, I bought a thing that does what I want it to do for a price I was willing to pay. That’s not defending, that’s me making a conscious decision to buy things that do what I want. That appears to be a rare skill, so I am quite proud of that ability of mine!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

It doesn’t enhance the usage of iPadOS at all.

It DOES make it so that apps that don’t do split screen (and will never be able to do so) can be viewed alongside apps that do. Including games, which I was really surprised that was the case. So, it does enhance the usage, somewhat.

 

[GuruZac]

I would imagine good basic external monitor support (one app on each screen) would be less power-intensive than Stage Manager, and would be a lot easier to design the interface.

I also wonder if multiple desktop-type feature could be implemented the way it is on Mac. I don’t need to see multiple overlapping windows onscreen if I know which apps are to the left and right of my current screen. Swiping now to switch between apps doesn’t feel very intuitive to me- after I swipe to the left to go to the previous app, I feel like I should be able to swipe to the right to go back to the other app.

Combine the two together (multiple screens on multiple displays) would be great IMO. If they want to futz around with windows they can try that after getting the basics down.

Yeah, I think given the hardware, I’d love to see dual OS capability. Mac has had that for years. Now that the hardware is identical between Mac and iPad Pro, no reason not to other than they don’t want their products cannibalising each other.

When I use my iPad Pro in hospitals and clinics, the EMR software turns the circular cursor in to a traditional mouse pointer and it functions exactly like a laptop. It would be intuitive to have a dual boot set up. They could sell an even larger iPad Pro (14”-15”) for in the $2000s range with that kind of capability and sell a ton of them. It’s what a lot of people have wanted apparently.

 

[untitledartists]

We need a DeX mode for iPadOS when the Magic Keyboard is connected or if it's connected to a monitor. Stage Manager ain't it. For god's sake, cheap ass Android phones have a desktop mode, but not the $700-1000+ iPads!

So true! The IPhones are so ridiculous powerful now, that for most people a iphone with desktop mode would be more than enough and the only single computer for all possible tasks. I am sure even MacOS would run smoothly on an Iphone now.
But who needs IPads and Macs then?
Sure - Pro's, people working in many different places, typing a lot, etc. would still prefer a MacBook.
And for me enjoying often lying in bed or a sofa in horizontal position with the iPad still would still buy an IPad.
But an IOS/ IpadOS Desktop Mode a la macOS would be great.

Somehow it is silly when I pack my bag for a few days to visit my parents house. Then I have to take Iphone, IPad and MacBook with me... it would be much more convenient and futuristic if I just plug in my Iphone to a monitor with mouse and keyboard and have a full working desktop environment....

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I don’t know what the system requirements are for that, but it would odd for a device with the power of the A12X, notably more powerful than available 13” MacBook Pros from 2018/2019 to not be able to power full external display support.

I’ve read that a couple times, but could it be that “more powerful” might be offset by “high resolution high frame rate internal monitor”? I remember reading that the A12X just barely had the power to drive its own 2732x2048 internal screen at 120Hz while pushing a mirrored (or app output) 5K. On the other hand, the 13” MBP had a ‘not quite 1080p (1920x1080)’ 1680x1050 screen and could drive an external 5K extended display at 60Hz.

What ever power difference there might have been between them is kinda offset by the iPad’s requirement to drive a high res internal screen at 120Hz, something the 13” MBP never had to do on either internal or external screen.

 

[noanker]

This is what Apple gets for relying too heavily on contractors. And the bean counters running the company thought this would be a great way to decrease costs while maximizing shareholder value. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Much like Google, whose heavy reliance on contractors, H1B workers leads to buggy, almost unusable software.

The bean counters only know how to massage numbers as they pander to shareholders.

Apple has definitely declined in my opinion, their hardware releases over the past two years have been bland and lackluster. Where's the innovation that was on fire during the days before Cook?

 

[noanker]

Maybe Craig is part of the problem

Perhaps.

I believe that Tim Cook is a major problem that needs to go. For a supply chain guy, he should've developed alternate suppliers in different countries well before COVID was ever a thing to reduce their risk profile. But no. He chooses to pander to the Chinese and their communist government by giving into their demands the way he has previously.

What Apple needs is a business leader who isn't about pandering to foreign governments or pushing his woke agenda. Apple needs a leader who would have already had heads rolling about delayed software releases due to features that didn't work well in the beginning and should've been scrapped altogether.

Now they're planning iPhone production in India? What could go wrong?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I believe that Tim Cook is a major problem that needs to go.

As if anyone with experience running a large multinational organization would make decisions to far off from the ones that have been made? Well, AND would be willing to leave their current gig?

 

[ian87w]

Incorrect. All major OEM's (HP, Dell, Lenovo) have renewed interest in this form factor

Yet I don’t see any newer models copying the form factor, unlike the early days of the Surface Pro. Wonder why.

 

[ian87w]

Perhaps.

I believe that Tim Cook is a major problem that needs to go. For a supply chain guy, he should've developed alternate suppliers in different countries well before COVID was ever a thing to reduce their risk profile. But no. He chooses to pander to the Chinese and their communist government by giving into their demands the way he has previously.

What Apple needs is a business leader who isn't about pandering to foreign governments or pushing his woke agenda. Apple needs a leader who would have already had heads rolling about delayed software releases due to features that didn't work well in the beginning and should've been scrapped altogether.

Now they're planning iPhone production in India? What could go wrong?

Yeah, but seems like it’s genetic to Apple. Apple pandering to China has been an issue even when Jobs was around. During Jobs era, Apple pretty much ignored SE Asia market and literally licking Chinese boots (just look at how Jobs integrated many Chinese services into macOS), to the point Samsung catching up and beating Apple in SE Asia market share. Now Apple is merely trying to catch up.

Heck, take EV. Hyundai and Tesla are having serious discussion with my country’s government to set up factories here as Indonesia is rich on nickel. Apple? The don’t even bother establishing their presence nor Apple store despite us being the largest market in SE Asia. So we can already see how behind Apple is on EV (assuming their Apple car project is still around).

Having said that, one cannot deny how Tim Cook has been giving shareholders good results YoY.

 

[noanker]

As if anyone with experience running a large multinational organization would make decisions to far off from the ones that have been made? Well, AND would be willing to leave their current gig?

I'd prefer not to act as though I know how other CEOs would make decisions in similar circumstances, especially the maverick ones who aren't in compliant lockstep with their more partisan contemporaries.

 

[tobybrut]

No it’s not. Hardly anyone uses the Surface Pro as a tablet. Most have keyboard on it and use it as a laptop. Most OEMs has ignored or abandoned the form factor and preferring the tried and true standard laptop form factor. Windows is Windows, a desktop OS. It’s never good or even decent as a tablet OS.

As an owner of a Surface Pro 6, I agree with you on this. It’s the worst tablet ever invented. The Surface Pro is basically unusable without a keyboard and mouse, which makes it not a tablet. I found that my purchase of it was probably the worst tech purchase I’d made in a decade. I eventually gave it to my son, who now uses it to take notes in college.

The Surface Laptops, on the other hand, are pretty cool and perform fairly well. The problem with the Surface Pro is that in their quest to make a hybrid, it made for a crippled laptop and an awful tablet. The Surface Laptop doesn’t pretend to be a tablet, so it’s not crippled and makes for a much better device. For me, I think I’d still prefer an Asus G14 in white, but I do like the Surface Laptops. Now if Microsoft could only make a powerful and affordable Surface Studio. I’d buy one of those in a second if they didn’t cripple it to keep the price down due to the incredibly expensive display.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'd prefer not to act as though I know how other CEOs would make decisions in similar circumstances, especially the maverick ones who aren't in compliant lockstep with their more partisan contemporaries.

And the maverick ones who aren’t in compliant lockstep… are? (Not any of the ones owning businesses that value in the trillions, to be sure, and could be why those CEO’s companies aren’t valued in the trillions)

I ask this because it’s easy to say “Tim must go” but no one presents even a wish list of anyone with the relevant experience that could take his place and and helm Apple as the trillion dollar multinational company that it is, much less, actually do better. My guess is because that wish list would very likely contain CEO’s that have proven that they would have made similar decisions as it relates to China (or are helming companies so small as to not have much multinational exposure at all).

 

[tobybrut]

Perhaps.

I believe that Tim Cook is a major problem that needs to go. For a supply chain guy, he should've developed alternate suppliers in different countries well before COVID was ever a thing to reduce their risk profile. But no. He chooses to pander to the Chinese and their communist government by giving into their demands the way he has previously.

What Apple needs is a business leader who isn't about pandering to foreign governments or pushing his woke agenda. Apple needs a leader who would have already had heads rolling about delayed software releases due to features that didn't work well in the beginning and should've been scrapped altogether.

Now they're planning iPhone production in India? What could go wrong?

Anyone who put themselves in a position where everything’s in a single basket deserves whatever they get. Apple should have diversified their manufacturing long ago. I do put that failing on Tim Cook. TSMC is another danger to Apple where they’re currently fighting to stop a big price increase. It’s unknown who has the better leverage, TSMC or Apple, but Apple relies on only one chip maker. With the further danger of China potentially attacking Taiwan, that also puts Apple at risk of having all of their chip eggs in one basket.

India is just another example of a country blackmailing Apple into doing their bidding. India is one of the most protectionist countries in the world. They put massive import duties on anything not made primarily in India, so Apple products are hugely expensive compared to other products. Samsung, for instance, has been making phones there for years, letting them avoid those import duties. In order to make things affordable to the second largest population in the world, Apple is basically forced to move a good portion of their manufacturing there.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple should have diversified their manufacturing long ago. I do put that failing on Tim Cook.

How many years ago? And, in that year, did the countries you’re thinking about actually HAVE the requisite manufacturing infrastructure for companies to have products made there? (Essentially, Was Foxconn there?) During those years, where did pretty much every major electronics company have their products built. And, I assume Tim Cook is also responsible for those companies doing so?

 

[hoodafoo]

Does iPadOS have cool lock screens like the iOS 16?

 

[tobybrut]

How many years ago? And, in that year, did the countries you’re thinking about actually HAVE the requisite manufacturing infrastructure for companies to have products made there? (Essentially, Was Foxconn there?) During those years, where did pretty much every major electronics company have their products built. And, I assume Tim Cook is also responsible for those companies doing so?

Apple took the cheap and easy way out by going almost exclusively with China. They could have gone to a number of other sources in Vietnam, Mexico, or other countries that have cheap labor. They are rich enough where they could have used seed money to create their own manufacturing, if they so chose, in other countries. They spent the money to open plants in Texas for the Mac Pro and now in India for a small percentage of the iPhone. Why couldn't they have done that years ago for their mobile devices? As I mentioned, Samsung had plants going in India years ago. If the US was too expensive, there are plenty of other places in the world. While India isn't the greatest place to go, it's a stable democracy, unlikely to be subject to sanctions.

But to say China was the only option was lazy on their part. Just as companies were lazy in the 1980's and sent all their manufacturing to Japan, companies did the same to take advantage of cheap wages in China in the 2000's. Sure, have some in China back when they weren't a potential global adversary, but at least diversify.

Apple's in the same boat with TSMC. Granted, they have the best manufacturing processes, but they could have given some to Samsung or others. Do they still have leverage with TSMC to avoid the price hikes? I don't know since Apple makes up 25% of TSMC's revenue. But does TSMC have a lot of customers waiting in line for Apple to falter? If so, they'll have Apple over a barrel. But I'm not as concerned about that as I am about the possibility of China seizing the island and taking over 70% of the world's chip manufacturing.

Whether it was Tim Cook or the current COO, Jeff Williams, who didn't diversify fast enough, it doesn't matter, but Cook is the guy in charge and is therefore responsible in the end. I'm not advocating anyone be fired over this because so far it hasn't bitten them in the rear yet with the exception of numerous delays due to China's zero COVID policies that closed plants for weeks and months. But if it does, somebody's head should roll. It's good they're recognizing the problem now and are finally trying to do something about it. If reports are correct that it would take them the rest of the decade, that could be a problem. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple took the cheap and easy way out by going almost exclusively with China. They could have gone to a number of other sources in Vietnam, Mexico, or other countries that have cheap labor.

Apple took the cheap and easy way out instead of JUST the cheap way out?

They spent the money to open plants in Texas for the Mac Pro and now in India for a small percentage of the iPhone.

They make VERY few Mac Pro’s a year, well less than 1 million and very likely closer to 500,000. And, there’s a well written story that goes over how even that was a struggle because a lot of the companies they’d want to depend on in the US aren’t willing to make parts in the numbers that the Mac Pro sold, so they still had to import those parts. And, Apple is in India because Foxconn is in India. For anyone that has questions about Apple’s ability to diversify, they need look no further than where, in the world, is Foxconn.

Why couldn't they have done that years ago for their mobile devices? As I mentioned, Samsung had plants going in India years ago.

So, the answer to “why couldn’t they” is that 1, they wanted to make more than 1 million of them and 2, they’re not a manufacturing company, they contract to other companies for manufacturing. Companies like Foxconn. That ONLY just recently broke ground in India.

It’s very easy to SAY diversify. In reality, when we’re talking about the scale of producing over 100 million devices in a 12 month period, there are VERY few places in the world with the required infrastructure to feed a factory with parts so that it’s running continuously at peak efficiency, and few companies in the world that were skilled at working on that large scale. And, until recently, one of the best in market, Foxconn was decidedly NOT diversified. What’s happening now is not so much that Apple “got the message” and decided to start diversifying, it’s more that their manufacturing partner has diversified, so diversifying, at this point, is actually an option.

 

[prospervic]

The biggest thing professionals want is a better files app and certain pro apps and features that aren’t gimped versions of their Mac counterparts…..that would satisfy 90 percent of pro work flows…

Add to this true external display support (the only aspect of Stage Manager that's really needed) and we'll be good to go.

 

[noanker]

And the maverick ones who aren’t in compliant lockstep… are? (Not any of the ones owning businesses that value in the trillions, to be sure, and could be why those CEO’s companies aren’t valued in the trillions)

I ask this because it’s easy to say “Tim must go” but no one presents even a wish list of anyone with the relevant experience that could take his place and and helm Apple as the trillion dollar multinational company that it is, much less, actually do better. My guess is because that wish list would very likely contain CEO’s that have proven that they would have made similar decisions as it relates to China (or are helming companies so small as to not have much multinational exposure at all).

Feel free to compile such a wish list since it appears to be something you want, but will undoubtedly be biased in favor of your argument that all CEOs will have made similar decisions.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Feel free to compile such a wish list since it appears to be something you want, but will undoubtedly be biased in favor of your argument that all CEOs will have made similar decisions.

As I indicated, there are no maverick CEOs leading organizations the size of Apple or near the size of Apple, so the list has already been created. It’s zero. And, yes, reality is biased in favor of reality.