Dale Sorel said:Uh, ESB is considered by many to be the best episode of the SW series. Did that have a happy ending
Good point, good point. I stand dejected.
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Star Wars Episode III Title Revealed
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Good point, good point. I stand dejected.
EminenceGrise said:
And it's not like Lucas is a total moron. There were lots of little things, nice touches, that made the difference for the first three. The notion of a rusted, dented sci fi universe. The spiritual dimension of the storyline. A classical movie score (though the way Williams outdid himself was pure serendipity Lucas was so excited when he heard an early version that he phoned Spielberg from London and played it for him over the phone; Spielberg practically wept because Williams was simultaneously working on the score for Close Encounters and Spielberg knew that he hadn't gotten Williams' best work), assembling a good ensemble cast that interacted well, crafting a saga, not just a single compact story. There were so many things that he got right back then, how could it have all gone so wrong this time around? He must be beside himself with shame.
Personally I don't think the prequels stood a chance. A generation of Star Wars fans have all but deified the original three films. Seriously if you go back and look at them objectively you will see how bad the acting can be at parts, especially in the first one. But who cares, it was a fun good movie.
Yet, they had achieved such an insane status in the minds of many as "THE GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME" that there was nothing, and I mean NOTHING Lucas could have done that would have pleased the legions of fans. For one thing lots of them wanted different things to happen I'm sure.
This is not to say that Ep1 and Ep2 didn't have issues, the story was rather weak in the first one. I mean yes they had to set things up, but they did so in a rather hokey way (midichlorians? pod racing? JarJar?). In the second one things improved of course, but I still didn't much care for the acting of the new Anakin.
Personally I think Lucas tried to bring things together too early.
Yet, they had achieved such an insane status in the minds of many as "THE GREATEST MOVIES OF ALL TIME" that there was nothing, and I mean NOTHING Lucas could have done that would have pleased the legions of fans. For one thing lots of them wanted different things to happen I'm sure.
This is not to say that Ep1 and Ep2 didn't have issues, the story was rather weak in the first one. I mean yes they had to set things up, but they did so in a rather hokey way (midichlorians? pod racing? JarJar?). In the second one things improved of course, but I still didn't much care for the acting of the new Anakin.
Personally I think Lucas tried to bring things together too early.
Woah! I had heard that it was going to be called Birth of the Empire, which personally I think is much better than Revenge of the Sith. I'm a huge huge Star Wars fan, and originally I liked the prequels, even though I thought they could be better, but it's difficult to like them when all of my friends hate them! I agree that casting was quite horrible, Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman just didn't work together I don't think. I know part of it was due to the script, but still. I'm still really excited for Episode III, even if it turns out to suck, hopefully it will be better than the other two.
Two thoughts
1. Maybe, after seeing the three LOTR movies, Lucas has picked up on the idea that he is no longer making great movies and will learn to delegate to his creative betters. The script in I and II was poor. Casting, directing all were weak.
2. Look at it this way. Someday, Lucas will be gone. The SW universe will, I hope, be picked up by a new director. Think economics here $$$. The Tarzan movies spoke to a previous generation, much in the same way SW has affected our own generation. The Tarzan theme was expanded, even against the will of the ERB estate. (Though now I am sure we have much better lawyers) Perhaps the same thing will happen here.
Maybe we will see and Ewok Jedi this time? Think of the toy franchise...
1. Maybe, after seeing the three LOTR movies, Lucas has picked up on the idea that he is no longer making great movies and will learn to delegate to his creative betters. The script in I and II was poor. Casting, directing all were weak.
2. Look at it this way. Someday, Lucas will be gone. The SW universe will, I hope, be picked up by a new director. Think economics here $$$. The Tarzan movies spoke to a previous generation, much in the same way SW has affected our own generation. The Tarzan theme was expanded, even against the will of the ERB estate. (Though now I am sure we have much better lawyers) Perhaps the same thing will happen here.
Maybe we will see and Ewok Jedi this time? Think of the toy franchise...
I think all 6 of these may end up being pretty good to watch together......after I put them on my Mac, and use FCP to edit out all of the nonsense that makes them so unbearable to watch......I think it will be about 3 hours long after that.
My 2 Cents on the topic.
Revenge of the Sith is a great title. Parallels. The original title of Return of the Jedi was Revenge of the Jedi, so I see why he chose Revenge of the Sith as the title for Episode III. Also, people that complain about the naming of the titles fail to notice that all of the titles are a throwback to serials of the 1930s -1950s. Also, all the movies have poor dialogue and/or acting. I think it's just that the baby-boomers want someting new to complain about and use the "In my day, it was better" scenario. If you go into the films looking for Oscar material, you're sadly mistaken. It's a Sci-Fi film based in a serial format, nothing more, nothing else. Get over yourselves and your film pretentiousness or you'll fail to like most films.
Revenge of the Sith is a great title. Parallels. The original title of Return of the Jedi was Revenge of the Jedi, so I see why he chose Revenge of the Sith as the title for Episode III. Also, people that complain about the naming of the titles fail to notice that all of the titles are a throwback to serials of the 1930s -1950s. Also, all the movies have poor dialogue and/or acting. I think it's just that the baby-boomers want someting new to complain about and use the "In my day, it was better" scenario. If you go into the films looking for Oscar material, you're sadly mistaken. It's a Sci-Fi film based in a serial format, nothing more, nothing else. Get over yourselves and your film pretentiousness or you'll fail to like most films.
As far as acting, that may be true. But Episode IV won 6 Oscars and had 10 nominations (winning for Art Direction, Costume Design, Film Editing, Score, Sound, and Visual Effects), while Episode I and II added another 4 nominations. When I see Episode III, I will again expect good sound and great visual effects.OnceUGoMac said:
OnceUGoMac said:
"Revenge of the Sith" just seems forced, IMO (no pun intended). "Revenge of the Jedi" woulda fit (save that "revenge" is not part of the Jedi way which is why the title was changed) because Luke is finally strong enough to kick the ass of the people that ruined his life. I dunno, maybe the title will "fit" better after I've seen the movie.
Yes, all the movies do have so-so acting and some cheesey dialogue but, in comparision, the acting in the prequals makes the acting in the original 3 look above average. And there is just no chemistry in the prequals. It's like some Franken-movie that by the sheer force of money Lucas has stitched together even though nothing fits and the thing just wants to fall apart. There was great chemistry between Ford, Hamill, and Fisher. The original three are great exmaples of movies where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.
Lucas has a grand vision for the prequals, but he is completely incapible<sp?> of executing that vision and refuses to hand over the reigns to people that could actually make these movies good (maybe even better than the original three). The Prequals had their moments (did anyone not get chills at the end of AotC when we saw the would-be Imperial Army and the Imperial March started), but overall they just sucked. Lucas has lost sight of what makes a good movie. All of the Star Wars movies have pushed the limits of FX, but when Lucas made Star Wars he said, paraphasing here, what good are FX if you don't have a good story. But when Episode one was going on I think I heard more about digital this and digital that and green/blue screen this and most FX heavy movie that than I did about the actually story all these FX were supposed to be serving. Lucas has became enamoured w/the technology and lost site of the human element. Kinda ironic considering one of the themes of the original Star Wars was man-over-machine.
I hope that Sith is good. I love the universe that Lucas has created and sense this will probably be the last movie that takes place there I hope it ends on a high note.
Lethal
Morrison23j said:
You make an outstanding point. People will see this movie, Lucas will make his money, and isn't that what it's all about?
When will the unoriginal ideas stop?
The title of this movie is a climactic example of how unoriginal George Lucas has become...and how focused on money he is (or so I think). I say this because of the fact that the original title for Jedi was "Revenge of the Jedi"......real original "new" title!
The title of this movie is a climactic example of how unoriginal George Lucas has become...and how focused on money he is (or so I think). I say this because of the fact that the original title for Jedi was "Revenge of the Jedi"......real original "new" title!
Krizoitz said:
I fully agree! Most of Lucas' teenage audience has no understanding of the 1950s serials that he (along with Speilberg with Raiders) try to emulate. As well, the older, more nostalgic demographic continues to praise "the originals" and say that the new ones don't have the same affect. Well, duh, you're not 12 anymore. They are all campy comic book-like films with bad acting and over the top effects. If you expect that for Episode III, you'll have a great time. I really think he has a tough task balancing the expolsive Matrix-like action that today's youth want and staying true to the sci-fi serials that the older generation wants.
At least we will get about 15 minutes of Vader in Episode III.
PS - Lucas is not doing it for the money anymore, he and his companies have more than God now.
themadchemist said:
No, that's not the point, and even if it were, these movies aren't making nearly as much money. They're not setting records even for their release year, there won't be as many return sales, rental sales, etc.
The point is to tell a damn fine story, and these fail.
Awimoway said:
I think, judging by LucasFilms' recent shortage of ability and creativity, this is the best the company can do to make a nice bundle of money without any real talent.
It would be nice if the point were to tell a damn fine story, but I'm assuming that Lucas & co. are not so delusional as to think that that's what they're doing.
wdlove said:
I wish. However, the acadamy seems to hate Lucas. He never even wins the techie catagories. Like the films or not, they deserve to win in those catagories.
I, personally, love all five films. I've been hooked since I saw Star Wars in 1st grade back in '77 and all the complaining about the prequels (and I see far more of it on Star Wars sites. It's sort of depressing to find it here on MR) I find to be a bit unjustified. Lucas can't seem to write dialogue, that is true. Also, Anakin from EP 1 couldn't act, and Natalie Portman has seemed hopeless throughout. The story, however, has progressed very well and has impressed me throughout. Think about it this way: We ALL know what must happen at the end of the next movie. We've known since before the prequels were ever made. Given that, how can you qrite stories that are compelling and still contain a bit of suspense and surprise. I think, from that point of view, the preqels fare quite well.
And the next movie is going to kick butt. Vader. That's all you need to know.
Doctor Q said:
I doubt it, at least, it won't be Lucas doing it. Even though it was his original idea, he has said that Episode III will be the last one he is involved with. If it were me, I wouldn't want to have another three episodes after Return of the Jedi. It has such a great ending, I can't imagine how they would make three sequels.
Foxer said:
There are tons of movies in which the audience knows what the end will be (sometimes in vague terms and sometimes in specifics) and yet they are still great movies. Pick anything based on real life or based on a book.
I think AotC clones was better than Ep.I. And if Sith continues the trend it will be a good movie (the only one of the three).
Spider-man 2 is a current example of a cheesey, over the top comic-book film that has a truck load of FX. It also has actors that have chemistry, a compelling love story (the exact opposite of Anakin and the Queen), good acting (in general), and a well told story. Also, the movie doesn't take itself too seriously (unlike the prequals, IMO).
Lucas has put effects first story second in the prequals. And even the effects aren't as good as they could be because he seems hell bent on CG/digital even if that's not the best kind of effect to use in a given situation.
There are still plenty of instances where models, miniatures, and, heck, even actual sets are better choices than CG.
Lethal
well, in the 70's lucas wrote this biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggggggggggaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssss script that those producer people divided into 9 episodes and they chose the 3 they did because of special effects limitations (hence why they were called 4 5 and 6 back then) if any of 5 already out are afterthoughts it's 4 5 and 6. btw im more of a star trek *ducks to avoid rotten veggies* than a star wars fan but star wars still rocks!Awimoway said:
mactastic said:
Hilarious. Only the true film geeks are picking up on the humor in that post.
But let's face it, there's only one reason why the prequels suck: Lack of chemistry in the cast.
The chemistry between harrison ford, mark hamill, and carrie fischer, coupled with the warmth and charm of chewie and (gasp) C3PO and R2. Throw in cute and powerful yoda and the evil Vader and Palpatine, and you have a movie.
Now it seems like I can barely keep up with all the newish characters with no personalities, who act timid in fear that they'll screw up their lines.
agreenster said:
Man, I thought that was "Post of the Week" ... but I don't want to look too much of a geek so I'll leave it there.
Anyway, I think Lucas should just have released them as Episode I, Episode II and Episode III, instead of these ghastly efforts.