Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS EVERYWHERE)

[AustinIllini]

So having seen the film, I have the following impressions:

Spoiler: Big time Spoilers all over the damn place

• The "moving of the pawns" made a lot of sense. If they weren't going to make Rey evil, they did the right thing
• The parentage reveal was appropriate
• As a view, I'm as confused by Kylo Ren is by everyone else
• The score was great, as usual, but lacked a signature cue like every previous Star Wars film
• The Casino bit was a bit too long. I get it and it's important and it seems like it will matter in the final installment
• Still not sure who Snoke is/was

 

[KingslayerG5]

Better than The Force Awakens and Rogue One. Most beautifully shot SW film ever with many different terrain and set pieces.

The confrontation with Snoke was the best part. My view with Luke has changed for the better.

 

[Janichsan]

I saw it yesterday and liked it for the most part. I really loved that it constantly undermines your expectations: you are sure x will happen next, and the complete opposite occurs. They really fleshed out the characters (especially Rey and Kylo Ren), the porgs were luckily not annoying and occasionally really funny - just as the whole movie was surprisingly funny -, and the effects were great.

My major complaint is that it's easily 30 minutes too long. While there is always something happening, the plot just doesn't advance significantly in the middle. It also felt a bit as if the movie suffered a bit from the LotR syndrome by having at least three points where it could have ended.

But overall: great. Not as good as ESB, and I also liked Rogue One better, but better and more original than TFA (blatant RotJ references aside).

Oh, and was it just me, or was Yoda really a puppet again?

 

[AustinIllini]

Audience reviews on rotten tomatoes are terrible. Fanboys did not, as a whole, like this film.

 

[kazmac]

Yeah, the Wampa fur is flying over at the force.net. I won’t be seeing until 12-25 and frankly, I will be surprised if I like, given how little I think of TFA. Disney has made me not care about Star Wars (though RO was pretty good save for Jyn’s annoying pep talk banter.)

I get it: they’re remaking SW into whatever they want.

If it were up to me, I’d skip and just chill until the potential Kenobi movie hits.

 

[AlliFlowers]

I got a pair of tickets free from AARP (Age hath its privileges). We're going tomorrow evening. I'm really looking forward to it.

 

[rhett7660]

I will probably be one of this group that did not like the film. Rogue One is still my favorite film of the series. With ANH and ESB as close seconds. Again this is my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but after watching it, these are some of the things I liked and disliked.

SPOILERS

Spoiler: Spoiler

Some of the issues with the film.

• Leia coming back from/waking up in space and then flying back to the ship. This scene alone did me under and it was pretty early on in the film.
• She can make it all the way back and then goes unconscious! Ugh.
• The Casino scene, like someone else mentioned. Way to long and the riding of the animals. face palm.
• I know why they were their, I get that. Setting up the kids for the next trilogy. That is how I took it especially with one of the last scenes of the boy sweeping.
• I did not like Luke's (Mark Hamill) performance. He always had a strained look on him or was about ready to cry. I get it, there is a lot of guilt regarding good ole Ben Solo. But, his performance fell flat for me. I actually didn't care if he lived or died.
• Rey, her acting was subpar in the film. Especially some of the scenes where she interacted with Luke. Ugh.
• Captain Phasma, why was she even in the film again? Waste if you ask me.
• Snoke, we still really do not know who this person/thing was? Nada. For him being so powerful and being able to read minds, he did a very poor job of it at the end. I didn't care about him, his character is super powerful and yet the way he dies. Come on.
• Finn and Rose. Come on man! Seriously. I would have been a lot more happier if Finn had sacrificed himself with the giant laser gun. I am sure Rose will come back. Why I have no idea.
• Rose character. Ugh.
• To me this played out like Empire Strikes Back, but much much worse. Different order of events but the events are still there.
• The whole stay out of range of the destroyers and super destroyers. Come on.
• The film was also very choppy. It was not fluid at all.

What I did like.

• The little battle between Rey, Ren, and the Red Guards. That was good.
  
• My favorite scene is seeing the ship jump to light speed and take out a few of the other ships. That was pretty impressive and I am glad there was silence in the scene, no music, no sounds, nothing. The audience had a collective gasp when it occurred. Top notch!
• The bomber scene in the very beginning. Very reminiscent of WWII bombing runs that we have seen in other movies or documentaries. I liked it.
• The comic relief that was spread out through the movie. Had a few chuckles and most of them came at the expense of Porgs. Especially the scene with Chewy and the BBQ.

I felt this was one of the weakest films in the saga. This is right down there with episode 1 and 2. So, so disappointed.




[doublepost=1513349634][/doublepost]

I saw it yesterday and liked it for the most part. I really loved that it constantly undermines your expectations: you are sure x will happen next, and the complete opposite occurs. They really fleshed out the characters (especially Rey and Kylo Ren), the porgs were luckily not annoying and occasionally really funny - just as the whole movie was surprisingly funny -, and the effects were great.

My major complaint is that it's easily 30 minutes too long. While there is always something happening, the plot just doesn't advance significantly in the middle. It also felt a bit as if the movie suffered a bit from the LotR syndrome by having at least three points where it could have ended.

But overall: great. Not as good as ESB, and I also liked Rogue One better, but better and more original than TFA (blatant RotJ references aside).

Oh, and was it just me, or was Yoda really a puppet again?

Rogue One is my favorite film.

I thought the same thing when I saw Yoda. I couldn't tell but he also looked different from all of the previous movies. He had a few good lines. But yeah, I was wondering that also.

 

[truettray]

Casino sequence and final stinger was Phantom-Menace-awful. I agree the Rey parentage reveal was a good choice.

I’m over the rebels vs empire storyline. It seems like the rest of the galaxy is too.

 

[AustinIllini]

Casino sequence and final stinger was Phantom-Menace-awful. I agree the Rey parentage reveal was a good choice.

I’m over the rebels vs empire storyline. It seems like the rest of the galaxy is too.

I think with Star Wars in general if you get to caught up in the "Rebels vs Empire" storyline, you're both going to be disappointed while also missing the point.

I find a great deal of joy in the "Force Pawns". Just as the OT was about Luke, Vader, Leia this one is about Rey, Kylo. That part of the film didn't disappoint. The window dressing was just a bit much, I think. Should have been a 2.5 hour film with additional Snoke/Kylo exposition instead of the casino stuff.

 

[KingslayerG5]

Rian did a much better job than Abrams with the direction of the story. It's not the thrice to be told we see the hero/heroine in a desert before blowing up a planet destroyer.

You can check more of my opinion on the "What movie are you watching?" thread which is more spoiler-free. I believe some of The Last Jedi's flaws comes from the casting.

Adam Driver is talented in other roles he does but I'm simply not convinced as him as a baddie. I understand him not turning with Rey but his delivery is as bad as Hayden Christensen when he confronted "you know who" in Crait.

The stakes seem lower now after the shocking moment at the middle of the flick. There are a few what the f / OMG moments in TLJ, that's for sure. Supposedly, Kathleen Kennedy is using this sequel trilogy as a proper send-off for Harrison, Mark, and Carrie.

Spoiler alert..

The problem is Carrie really died but doesn't in this flick. I was shocked too when the ship got blasted but then went huh like she was Mary Poppins floating back.

I felt like they should have just ended her role there. If there is one character who doesn't need plot armor, it's Leia. Of course my heart was a little broken if that's how she would die. The ending instead was a send-off for Luke though as a Force Ghost.

I'm not convinced JJ will end this trilogy well. Same old tropes again for another cash grab.

X-Men: First Class - good
Days Of Future Past - better
Apocalypse - worst

The Force Awakens - good (first time)
The Last Jedi - better
Star Wars 9 - worst?

I'm also still trying to contemplate the ending. There were definitely improvements to this movie over the previous two SW fan fictions...

More locales. It's like Revenge Of The Sith where so much happens in different locations. We don't see like 2-3 different places.

Finn and Poe had better roles. Finn in a wild goose chase but I liked that casino scene and also find Beneficio's role pretty cool. There was a subtle jab there about good v evil in politics. Some of the rich sell to both sides.

Rey definitely had a more interesting role because anytime she wasn't onscreen, I was like where is she? There was too much editing going back and forth when her mystery of her parents and if she was going to turn was the most interesting aspect.

Snoke bridging Rey and Kylo and their eventual confrontation was a huge highlight. Huge ovation when Rey threw the lightsaber to Kylo.

It's actually very funny for a SW film. Mark Hamill is much more personable and funny in real life compared to his role as Luke. I never really liked Luke in the series as I found him whiny and he needed saving. Here, Luke had some LOL moments.

Those porgs are cute. I didn't realize they were birds until I saw them. LOL guilt trip moment for poor starving Chewie.


Dislikes -

Yoda appearance doesn't fit for me but I do understand seeing his Force Ghost because that's what Luke will turn to. Yoda did have a hilarious line.

The intercuts was too much like what we saw in the end for The Phantom Menace.

Too many aerial battles.

The new characters is really like taking the kids of Marty McFly and Doc Brown to make another Back To The Future film or take Mutt and make him into the new Indiana Jones.

Snoke and Phasma are such disposable villains. Gwendoline is Brienne of Tarth and now she can't handle a janitor? I wanted to know more about them especially Snoke.

Hux is still General Sux although there was a huge LOL moment in the beginning like an old Verizon commercial.

V
IV
VI
III
VIII
VII
I
II

Call me a closed-minded cynic, but I will always love the Original Trilogy more than this Sequel Trilogy. The Last Jedi could technically be a better film than Ep 3 and 6 and be the best SW film since Empire, but I just can't place it above them. Need to rewatch it a dozen times and see if my opinion changes like it did for TFA after two years.

Maybe it will rank higher or maybe it stays the same. Overall, I did enjoy it the first time I saw it like I did for TFA. And I do like it more than most cookie-cutter MCU films except for maybe 2012's The Avengers. Enough surprises and some laughs to make any Game of Thrones fan happy.

Better than The Walking Dead in its current state, that's for sure. Yes, better than Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol.2. I enjoy GotG2 but there was too much stuff that I find hard to believe at the end. Better than any DCEU including Wonder Woman which I enjoyed. Star Wars did it again. Made one of the best blockbusters of the year.

I guess Star Wars is like Apple. They may never be as awesome or have the same magic like when Steve was alive but the quality is still there with the newer stuff despite the flaws. High standards = high expectations.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Overall it's a good film. It starts with a familiar rebels on the run, plus you know Rey has to be trained so I'm thinking is this going to be just a reboot of TESB. But then it all changes. The Snoke scene (and death) was very unexpected. I thought Kylo was going to change his mind and escape with Rey.

I was also expecting Leia to die. First of all when the bridge got destroyed (although that would have been early). Think the flying Leia was a bit unbelievable. Then when it became obvious someone would need to stay with the ship to pilot it (notice she didn't have to until she decided to ram!).
As they have said they are not going to CGI Leia or use a different actress (thankfully!), I'm not sure how they are going to address that one.
RIP Carrie.

I liked Luke in this one. He showed he is not all powerful. Plus the brush of the shoulder after the AT-AT barrage made me laugh.
As did Chewie turning vegetarian at his BBQ!

Could have done without Yoda. His burning the Jedi tree seamed out of character. I think it would have been cooler if OB1 was there.
Good tie in for the standalone movie too.

Looking forward to seeing it again!

 

[KingslayerG5]

Tyrone Magnus is NOT a fan of The Last Jedi...

It's quite reasonable what he is saying similar to all the user reviews on Metacritic about The Force Awakens (6.9). Very negative but fairly on-point.

Prior to watching TLJ, my expectations weren't quite high mainly because this is all fan fiction / fan service / another cash grab film. But since Disney bought Lucasfilm for $4B, they will continue to milk the franchise until the end of time. It should've just ended and the franchise be left alone back in 1983. No special editions, prequels, and sequels. They killed the mystery like the Internet killed going out more.

There are some moments in the movie where it felt "too Disney" especially the ending with the kids at Crait or when Rose kissed Finn. Tyrone better NOT have high hopes for Infinity War either. There was an ovation for that trailer before TLJ played but I kept thinking about how bad Age of Ultron is and how overrated Civil War really is. Trailer reaction can get you hyped too much. Keep expectations low.

This is Disney. They can ruin franchises like JJ Abrams can ruin Star Trek.

 

[lord patton]

Luke's final battle was perfect. Having always adored the twin suns moment from episode IV, his dying moment was perfect, too.

 

[KingslayerG5]

Now the spoiler one from Tyrone...

Disney is ruining Star Wars? Lucas did that already by 1997...

It will never be the same like it was before. MCU / Star Wars, they are cookie-cutter cash grabs for Di$ney.

This is Di$ney. Feminists around amok in Hollywood. #metoo

The stakes are now lower after they killed Snoke. I don't find Kylo Ren convincing enough to be a baddie. By Ep 9, he starts having sex with Rey and they have children. Finn and Rose get married too. The End. It was a romance trilogy this whole time.

The real Star Wars to me: 1977-1983

The rest afterwards is just a cash grab.

 

[rhett7660]

Luke's final battle was perfect. Having always adored the twin suns moment from episode IV, his dying moment was perfect, too.

I also enjoyed this scene.

I wish they would have ended Leia at the time of the bridge explosion. That would have been a fitting end in my book for her. Going out fighting if you will.

@KingslayerG5 I agree with your assessment of Ben, he doesn't have to me what it takes to be someone who will rule the galaxy. He doesn't have the Darth Vader persona.

 

[KingslayerG5]

The best part of the movie (Snoke vs Rey/Kylo) was also the worst part for the story going forward like it became a double-edged lightsaber. The moment Snoke got split in half is like how I felt when Game of Thrones' writers killed off a certain, devious character in Season 7's finale. What for?

Remember in Iron Man 3 when we found out who The Mandarin was? Damn you, Shane Black. That's how I felt with Snoke. I felt cheated. The Mandarin was supposed to be a fierce adversary against Iron Man and got written off as a joke. That's what I felt with killing Snoke. He is supposed to be this mysterious, powerful villain but all we got was a cheap death scene for him.

I still liked the movie more than how Tyrone Magnus saw it. It does have elements of TESB and ROTJ. The Force Awakens didn't have much going for it as Abrams is a hack writer/director that should just stay with TV shows. He's the Puff Daddy/P Diddy of film directors. He needs to heavily sample from Spielberg (Close Encounters.. /E.T./The Goonies = Super 8) and Lucas (A New Hope = The Force Awakens) to make his films.

I completely understand some of their dislike or even hatred for TLJ.

W T F at Leia surviving? Carrie is dead. How will they kill her off in Ep 9? Another CGI face that Disney keeps saying no to.

Yoda appearing when it wasn't necessary.

Snoke not surviving and being a disposable villain like Phasma.

Still not knowing who Rey's parents are. That cave of mirrors scene was such a tease that showed us nothing. Junk traders is BS to me.

The showdown between Kylo v Luke was disappointing.

Luke becoming a Force Ghost when it wasn't necessary.

 

[AustinIllini]

What part of Kylo Ren makes him a bad baddie? Was it when he ordered an entire village executed in the first film? He should have been the baddie all along.

Most of the fanboy reviews have been a veritable Murphy's law. When in doubt, assume it's bad. I don't buy it for a second.

And I don't get the Snoke complaining. We get to look at ESB and ROTJ through rose color eyes because we have an entire trilogy of backstory. No one honestly cared about the flat villain emporer.

As someone who is a more casual fan of Star Wars, the audience response has been very Kylo Ren like (childish)
[doublepost=1513369008][/doublepost]

I also enjoyed this scene.

I wish they would have ended Leia at the time of the bridge explosion. That would have been a fitting end in my book for her. Going out fighting if you will.

@KingslayerG5 I agree with your assessment of Ben, he doesn't have to me what it takes to be someone who will rule the galaxy. He doesn't have the Darth Vader persona.

Of course he doesn't have the Darth Vader persona. If he did, fanboys would scream "they're just rehashing Darth Vader". Lucas trashed Darth Vader and his back story. Kylo Ren is a better character than Anakin ever was and is no longer concerned with good and evil.

 

[KingslayerG5]

We, as Americans, will continue to media consume superhero films and Star Wars annually like buying new smartphones every year or two and consuming fast food, gluten, and processed foods. No matter if the quality goes down, we will still buy it for their familiarity and nostalgia purposes no different than people still watching certain TV shows after it jumped the shark years ago.

Some will be displeased with The Last Jedi while others are already looking forward to the next SW film. If Solo starts off in the desert where we find Han as some junk trader, I'm going to be a little po'd for its lack of creativity but I will continue to support the franchise since it still is the most visually pleasing and sounding.

There is already sexual tension between Ben and Rey since The Force Awakens when Kylo first unmasked himself to her. Rey even got in a fight with Luke and then went directly to him without any real explanation for it. Just get captured like no big deal. Rey even got to see him shirtless. Star Wars became Twilight to cater to emo girls that write Wattpad fan fiction.

Episode IX - Ben & Rey hook up. Ben just needed a "Rey of light".

The End. *roll credits*

Infinity War can't come soon enough but my expectations aren't that high for it either since there will be like 60+ cast members. It's like watching that film, Valentine's Day. Too many cameos. Not much focus on the story. That was Civil War's main issue. There was no civil war until the very end when the writers pushed Tony to be the baddie after watching a tape of his parents' death and then make him lose from a trip by Bucky.

Unbelievable how Luke has no plot armor but Leia does when the Carrie died consuming drugs. I miss Carrie too but she did that to herself. Just smoke mj and be done with it. Calling mj a gateway drug is like calling red wine as a gateway to alcoholism. I honestly thought the porgs were tube socks from the trailer until I realized they were birds. I didn't mind them. I had tolerance for Ewoks and a certain Gungun already. Di$ney gotta sell toys.

Strengths of the film is mostly visual. Rian Johnson did Brick and Looper and if you have seen the former, he shoots it in a particular way. When Rose's sister died, I liked the camera angles. When we see Leia in Crait before they close the cave up, I like that shot with Leia from behind. I like the wide shot between Kylo v Luke. And hooray, more Asian actors appear in the film.

Visually, it was fairly excellent. Rian tried different techniques on how to pan it. The weaknesses came from the original draft that Abrams and Kasdan did. Had Rian had written the script since the beginning, it would have turned out better but he had to follow a template that was bigger than his. And these young actors are miscast or just given terrible scripts and roles to portray, so he had to live with the characters he was dealt with.

Already waiting for the Solo film. It's going to be a trilogy (AKA 3x bigger cash grab) no different than how Apple makes iPhones every year. I just hope no desert beginnings and planet destroyer finale. What made Rogue One work was it wasn't the same retread with good vs evil. It was a war movie. It also had a real ENDING.

OT - Vader turns good
PT - Anakin turns bad
ST - Will Kylo turn good?

Good vs evil, dark vs light, same story over and over. Tired of following the Skywalkers and Jedis. Tell us something NEW. Expand the universe beyond just having a hero struggling between the Force and dark vs light.

I've read comments that Daisy Ridley ruined Star Wars. She didn't ruin it and neither did Driver or Boyega. Disney did. They're capable actors like Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor are more than capable. It's the bad writing. It all started when JJ Abrams ruined Star Trek.

Star Wars 9 directed by JJ Abrams might be the first Star Wars (main series) I won't watch on opening day since 1999 no matter how cool the trailers will be. SW has same issues as D&D has done for Game of Thrones without GRR's influence. Fan service / fan fiction stories for more cash grabs.

 

[Joe h]

Love it when critics expose themselves as hacks and out of touch. 40% gap, and growing, between the critics score and audience score. Disney’s going to have to double down and buy this thing a couple oscars in order to save face.

 

[AustinIllini]

Love it when critics expose themselves as hacks and out of touch. 40% gap, and growing, between the critics score and audience score. Disney’s going to have to double down and buy this thing a couple oscars in order to save face.

Critics score and audience score use a different algorithm. Critics score is a average of like/dislike (so if every critic says 7/10, it's 100% fresh). Audience score is an average of the number of stars. Different metric.

I'll still go with the critics, because I go to movies to enjoy them.

I'm fairly convinced Empire Strikes Back would be panned by audiences in 2017

 

[D.T.]

Loved it, whole family did, it was on point with Star Wars as a theatrical universe, i.e., the mix of space opera, exotic locales, conceptually simple GvE but with a nice layer of ambiguity. Carrie Fisher's scenes kept making me a little sad - my ass was in a seat, in May '77, so she's been my princess for a while

That's my assessment, not other people on review aggregators, not anonymous "YouTubers"

 

[Apple fanboy]

Loved it, whole family did, it was on point with Star Wars as a theatrical universe, i.e., the mix of space opera, exotic locales, conceptually simple GvE but with a nice layer of ambiguity. Carrie Fisher's scenes kept making me a little sad - my ass was in a seat, in May '77, so she's been my princess for a while

That's my assessment, not other people on review aggregators, not anonymous "YouTubers"

Agree that the scenes with Carrie made me a little sad. She will be sorely missed. My first crush and I never really did get over it!

 

[skottichan]

I personally loved it. I think Mark Hamill really needs a Best Supporting Actor nod for this movie. Loved that Adam Driver got more time to really chew on being Kylo, I think he's turning out to be a substantial villain.

I think my only complaints were the Canto Bight scenes, because there should have been more to it, or less, where it was was just disjointed. I enjoyed Finn and Rose, it just wasn't "as cool" as it could have been (would have been a great place to put Lando, but hey...). My other complaint was that Phasma was dispatched a little too quickly, but honestly, she was going to suffer from the Boba Fett syndrome. Nothing they could do with her could match her Rule of Cool™.

Empire was my first Star Wars when I was a kid (it was rural Ohio in 1981, no one had home videos at the time), Didn't see A New Hope until a year later when it was released for a limited run (they ran it with Empire at the local drive-in). I've been a hard core Star Wars fan ever since, and I'm glad the series is continuing, because the Galaxy Far Far Away has an abundance of potential for stories. I'm excited for Episode IX and the new trilogy that Rain Johnson is working one.

PS: If you had a problem with Leia's space scene, be glad you never read the books or comics, or played the games, or watched the cartoons, because Force users (and regular people as well) do some seriously out there stuff.

 

[AustinIllini]

W T F at Leia surviving? Carrie is dead. How will they kill her off in Ep 9? Another CGI face that Disney keeps saying no to.
Carrie Fisher died after filming. Johnson had the choice to write all of that out or not. I would have been fine with her dying in the bridge destruction, but I'm not mad they went the other way.

Yoda appearing when it wasn't necessary.
It was very necessary. When you see Luke babbling on about sacred texts and the shortcomings of the Jedi, you knew there was no way he was going to come back to the force without external influence. Alec Guinness is dead, so it wouldn't be Obi-Wan coming back. Anakin is a terrible character ruined by a bad actor so he wouldn't come back. It almost certainly had to be Yoda.

Snoke not surviving and being a disposable villain like Phasma.
Emporer Palpatine was disposable when it came right down to it. He was a vessel to turn Vader. We probably will get a Snoke back story eventually, but unless you're calling out Palpatine, you're not really making a huge complaint about Snoke.

Still not knowing who Rey's parents are. That cave of mirrors scene was such a tease that showed us nothing. Junk traders is BS to me.
Rey's parents are revealed. Her lack of Skywalker blood is important, IMHO. Her origin heavily mirrors Anakin Skywalkers, which I think is extremely poignant.

The showdown between Kylo v Luke was disappointing.
Not sure what showdown you were watching, but that might have been the best part of the film.

Luke becoming a Force Ghost when it wasn't necessary.
How else was Luke going to get to the salt planet? I would have been pretty mad if that X-Wing sitting under water was suddenly just able to fly after a number of years.

Some of these complaints are valid, but i still contend we could go back to Empire Strikes Back and be like "Why go to Bespin?". Why was everyone hanging out on Hoth? Why didn't the Empire just airstrike the rebel base? How did Luke land in that exact right place on Dagobah?

Sorry, I don't buy it. The level of scrutiny on this movie is stupid. And don't even get me started with the script. The Episode IV script was horrible.

I literally read a complaint where someone said "I thought I was watching Flash Gordon for a second". Uh...Star Wars was meant to be like Flash Gordon.

 

[nrvna76]

I thought it was good. I was both excited by Snokes death and disappointed to not find out that he was somehow tied to the story prior to TFA.

I guess the same could be said for Rey’s parentage. Ahtough im not positive that is the whole story. Force baby possibly.

The added twist to Ben’s turn was pretty good as well.

$45 mil in Thursday previews and some of you are saying it’s a failure. Lmao