You completely missed the point of why Yoda did that.
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Star Wars: The Last Jedi Discussion (WARNING: SPOILERS EVERYWHERE)
- Thread starter AustinIllini
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LOL, you guys over analyze and dissect these movies as much as many of the users on here over analyze their iPhones
I watched the originals when they came out, and have seen them all several times as well, but I've always just enjoyed them for what they are
Some have been better than others for sure, and while I didn't prefer the prequels, I didn't passionately hate them (except for Jar-Jar)
I haven't seen this one yet, but plan to this week
Unless it is just horrible beyond belief I'm sure I will enjoy it for what it is and move on
I watched the originals when they came out, and have seen them all several times as well, but I've always just enjoyed them for what they are
Some have been better than others for sure, and while I didn't prefer the prequels, I didn't passionately hate them (except for Jar-Jar)
I haven't seen this one yet, but plan to this week
Unless it is just horrible beyond belief I'm sure I will enjoy it for what it is and move on
I still think Kylo Ren is too emo but I like The Ringer article below defending his complexity. The trailers where Rey looked to go dark and theories of Luke being the real villain when he wasn't was all misdirection from them. At least Rian Johnson is trying something different which is more than what you can say about JJ Abrams.
Positive review from Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...incredibly-strong-with-this-one/#2584fb626189
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/feature/a839363/snoke-last-jedi-villain/
Rian Johnson has said that Snoke's identity isn't terribly important: "He's a dark force: the scary thing behind the thing," the Last Jedi's director said. "That was entirely how I approached Snoke. I wasn't interested in explaining where he came from or telling his history, except where it serves this story."
Adam Driver promised that the film would create "new rules" for the franchise. Daisy Ridley said it will surprise fans.
Does that sound like the film will tread the predictable path laid out by the first film? No, we think we've been set up for a twist as HUGE as the "I am your father" moment in The Empire Strikes Back.
___
https://www.theringer.com/movies/20...last-jedi-kylo-ren-adam-driver-movie-villains
2015
^ Adam Driver seems like a cool dude and we are close in age. I watched those videos two years ago. Daisy and John were born in 1992. They're just kids to me like MKBHD.
I have nothing personal against Adam, Daisy, John, or Oscar. I'm just NOT sold on Kylo Ren yet. I just find him to be a bratty child. A Sith poseur. I don't blame any of these actors for the roles that was written for them. Is it Natalie Portman or Ewan McGregor's fault that they had to deliver crap lines?
I beg JJ doesn't end the trilogy in a romantic way. If Kylo Ren is still unfinished evil, let him stay there. Adam is still quite young in his mid-30's. He can make another trilogy with Rey as his main adversary like Batman vs The Joker. They can write Kylo Ren as more of a younger Sidious trying to enter his apex in evil power than making another Vader clone.
Darth Plagueis was killed by his own apprentice. Kylo can still get stronger and more powerful from here now that Snoke is dead. Vader never gained the electricity/lightning element like Sidious and Snoke did. Hopefully, Ep IX doesn't end in death for either Kylo or Rey which is predictable and they continue to fight after this trilogy ends. Remember, this is a FOREVER franchise. This can go on and on longer after we are all dead.
I'm planning to watch TLJ again along with Ragnarok or Justice League maybe on Mon or Tues. I really, really liked Hela but MCU didn't utilize Cate B so much telling her background story to Karl Urban's character. I like female leads and villains too but feel Rey doesn't do it for me. Who knows? I might like it more considering Rian is trying to kill the predictable template / tropes that has existed with SW and most superhero films. Kylo can go finish what his grandfather started...
Sith happens. Being evil like grandpa is cool!
Positive review from Forbes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...incredibly-strong-with-this-one/#2584fb626189
http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/star-wars/feature/a839363/snoke-last-jedi-villain/
Rian Johnson has said that Snoke's identity isn't terribly important: "He's a dark force: the scary thing behind the thing," the Last Jedi's director said. "That was entirely how I approached Snoke. I wasn't interested in explaining where he came from or telling his history, except where it serves this story."
Adam Driver promised that the film would create "new rules" for the franchise. Daisy Ridley said it will surprise fans.
Does that sound like the film will tread the predictable path laid out by the first film? No, we think we've been set up for a twist as HUGE as the "I am your father" moment in The Empire Strikes Back.
___
https://www.theringer.com/movies/20...last-jedi-kylo-ren-adam-driver-movie-villains
2015
^ Adam Driver seems like a cool dude and we are close in age. I watched those videos two years ago. Daisy and John were born in 1992. They're just kids to me like MKBHD.
I have nothing personal against Adam, Daisy, John, or Oscar. I'm just NOT sold on Kylo Ren yet. I just find him to be a bratty child. A Sith poseur. I don't blame any of these actors for the roles that was written for them. Is it Natalie Portman or Ewan McGregor's fault that they had to deliver crap lines?
I beg JJ doesn't end the trilogy in a romantic way. If Kylo Ren is still unfinished evil, let him stay there. Adam is still quite young in his mid-30's. He can make another trilogy with Rey as his main adversary like Batman vs The Joker. They can write Kylo Ren as more of a younger Sidious trying to enter his apex in evil power than making another Vader clone.
Darth Plagueis was killed by his own apprentice. Kylo can still get stronger and more powerful from here now that Snoke is dead. Vader never gained the electricity/lightning element like Sidious and Snoke did. Hopefully, Ep IX doesn't end in death for either Kylo or Rey which is predictable and they continue to fight after this trilogy ends. Remember, this is a FOREVER franchise. This can go on and on longer after we are all dead.
I'm planning to watch TLJ again along with Ragnarok or Justice League maybe on Mon or Tues. I really, really liked Hela but MCU didn't utilize Cate B so much telling her background story to Karl Urban's character. I like female leads and villains too but feel Rey doesn't do it for me. Who knows? I might like it more considering Rian is trying to kill the predictable template / tropes that has existed with SW and most superhero films. Kylo can go finish what his grandfather started...
Sith happens. Being evil like grandpa is cool!
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For me the Last jedi is becoming by far the worst Star Wars movie at this point.
Don't get me wrong, When exit the movie theater I though that movie was good has entertaining, Didn't felt nearly 2 hours and thirty minutes passing by. But the problem came later, I started to associate the plot points and the movie makes no sense.
Luke - attitude towards Rey was bit off character, but i thought he was too dramatised by the betrayal of Ben Solo... Later in the movie you see Luke goes into way out of character that destroyed the character. The conclusion is that became senile or something, but they turned the most compelling character ever, to the most stupid and coward and whinny. This was not Luke, it is impersonator.
Leia - they simply missed the opportunity to send a proper send of for the character, due to actress death. She did too little in this movie to make her believable. I was hoping at the least a sort of confrontation with her son face to face or something significant.
Ben/Kylo, makes no sense at this point. I prefer him with the mask.
Poe Demaron, his ark of conflict was lack of taste.
Vice-Admiral Holdo - Interesting character, so much potential, at least she did something of greater importance of this movie. Basically they could simply put Luke in her shoes.
Snoke - Worst Villain ever of the Star Wars franchise and potentially the worst since Cinematic business has started. For Episode 9, i think the damage is done and is already too late to save the character, as it would only make him worse.
Finn - His casino ark is unnecessary. his fight with Phasma, a bit unbelievable.
Rose - Probably a compelling character, I reserve for Episode 9 for further review.
Rey - There is no denying it. She is now officially a Marry Sue in every sense of those two words. See the meaning of Mary Sue and compared her character after watching episode 7 and 8. Too bad the character developing arc is depending what they do with her on Episode 9.
Chewie - Simply a Cameo
R2-D2 - Cameo
C-3PO - Cameo
Phasma - Cameo, second worst character in Star Wars. At least Boba Fett was better vilain.
BB8 - Porbably the best character of the entire movie.
The battle scenes - The first one with the bombers: Awesome. The lightsaber duel with the red Guards: Cool. The second longest battle in space: Maybe a little too big, reasosn for that particular situation needed a bit more brainstorming in story wise. Snoke confrontation with Rey: Worst I ever saw, makes little sense. The battle on the Salt planet (don't recall the name): Pointless. Luke fight with Kylo: good, could have been better, it need to be more epicness.
In terms of the story I say only this. The character do things in this movie because the Plot demanded. There was no compelling reason for the character to do what they did, has there were other possibilities to be made in my view. That is biggest fault of the movie has Star Wars fan. At least on Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, the characters had reasons to do what they did on the movies, for better or worse.
Don't get me wrong, When exit the movie theater I though that movie was good has entertaining, Didn't felt nearly 2 hours and thirty minutes passing by. But the problem came later, I started to associate the plot points and the movie makes no sense.
Luke - attitude towards Rey was bit off character, but i thought he was too dramatised by the betrayal of Ben Solo... Later in the movie you see Luke goes into way out of character that destroyed the character. The conclusion is that became senile or something, but they turned the most compelling character ever, to the most stupid and coward and whinny. This was not Luke, it is impersonator.
Leia - they simply missed the opportunity to send a proper send of for the character, due to actress death. She did too little in this movie to make her believable. I was hoping at the least a sort of confrontation with her son face to face or something significant.
Ben/Kylo, makes no sense at this point. I prefer him with the mask.
Poe Demaron, his ark of conflict was lack of taste.
Vice-Admiral Holdo - Interesting character, so much potential, at least she did something of greater importance of this movie. Basically they could simply put Luke in her shoes.
Snoke - Worst Villain ever of the Star Wars franchise and potentially the worst since Cinematic business has started. For Episode 9, i think the damage is done and is already too late to save the character, as it would only make him worse.
Finn - His casino ark is unnecessary. his fight with Phasma, a bit unbelievable.
Rose - Probably a compelling character, I reserve for Episode 9 for further review.
Rey - There is no denying it. She is now officially a Marry Sue in every sense of those two words. See the meaning of Mary Sue and compared her character after watching episode 7 and 8. Too bad the character developing arc is depending what they do with her on Episode 9.
Chewie - Simply a Cameo
R2-D2 - Cameo
C-3PO - Cameo
Phasma - Cameo, second worst character in Star Wars. At least Boba Fett was better vilain.
BB8 - Porbably the best character of the entire movie.
The battle scenes - The first one with the bombers: Awesome. The lightsaber duel with the red Guards: Cool. The second longest battle in space: Maybe a little too big, reasosn for that particular situation needed a bit more brainstorming in story wise. Snoke confrontation with Rey: Worst I ever saw, makes little sense. The battle on the Salt planet (don't recall the name): Pointless. Luke fight with Kylo: good, could have been better, it need to be more epicness.
In terms of the story I say only this. The character do things in this movie because the Plot demanded. There was no compelling reason for the character to do what they did, has there were other possibilities to be made in my view. That is biggest fault of the movie has Star Wars fan. At least on Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, the characters had reasons to do what they did on the movies, for better or worse.
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Yoda knows that those book irrelevant. Besides the point: him laughing like a maniac...
Rey’s parentage has been telegraphed repeatedly in two movies. To quote Fox Mulder -
“The truth is out there”
Sure. Telegraphed so much that there was no speculation of relation to a known family...
I can’t handle the idiocy.
Go back and watch A New Hope. Leia is perhaps the first strong female lead character in any major movie. Star Wars has long been a pioneer for diversity and many of its morales are regarding the need for diversity and the need for respect of cultures. The evil in Star Wars are those who want to make the galaxy homogenous and without multiculturalism.
Also what is wrong with a movie having a majority women? There are more women in the world than men, and why is it ok for a movie to have more men than women but not the other way around? Also, there weren’t a majority of women in the movie, count up the leads: Snoke, Ren, Hux, Luke, Finn, Poe, DJ then there’s Leia, Rose, Holdo, Phasma and Rey. 6 men to 5 women.
It’s really f***** ignorant for people to call Star Wars suddenly “PC” now because it has always been about the celebrating the magnitude of cultures, in Star Wars there are far more races and ethnicities than we can even fathom.
I’ve seen some pretty despicable things said about the previous movie. I’ve witnessed people online calling J.J. Abrams “Jew Jew Abrams” and using racial slurs to describe Finn. It’s ignorant, it’s offensive, and it’s totally missing the entire point of Star Wars.
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While I enjoyed the movie, it has a lot of issues:
-Rose -Her acting was okay, but could have been a much more interesting character.
-Luke tossing the saber and being so non nonchalant at times- out of character. Plus I like the two suns but he should still have gone down fighting and have two suns over Crait.
-Some odd CGI.
-Vice Admiral Holdo - very interesting character and wasted. Dern would have made a great Leia replacement for IX. EASILY could have done reshoots and changed her fate. CGI Leia into the ship, sacrifices herself. Holdo becomes new resistance leader. Carrie sat in a few scenes CGI the background; re-edit the goodbye between her and Leia, cut to the ship turning and its Leia in the cockpit; HUGE MOMENT
-Why does the FO have all these capital ships yet can't launch more than a handful of fighters? They could EASILY overpower the resistance with sheer numbers.
-Speaking of which, why are their capitol ships so slow that they can't over take the resistance fleet? BAD writing - Rian didn’t know what to do with those characters so we get the slow speed chase like OJ is a resistance fighter and the FO is LAPD.
-BS Rey's parents were nobodies. She’s Kylo’s sister and they have been telegraphing that repeatedly. This will come out in IX.
-Why does it everyone mere hours to travel so far? Even at light speed it should take a while.
-Leia force flying was TERRIBLE, what was this Guardians of the Galaxy? I half expected her to reach to her ear and her mask to come out.
-The 'kids' learning to be the new resistance - yawn, flashbacks to Ep. 1.
-Porgs, Milkers - not necessary, in one case, gross in the other. Call back to the blue green milk on Tattoine.
-Snokes fate- terrible, most interesting character in the new trilogy.
-Those stupid hats the FO wear with the flaps sticking outwards - whose dumb idea was this? They are even more annoying now they've survived to a second movie.
-Stupid comic elements in the casino
-Poe's incredible luck.
-Rose. Self explanitory. Decent acting, but badly written character. Seems more like a business decision rather than good writing.
Good elements -
-Snoke - Although wasted by bad writing; I still think he’s was a Jedi who survived the purge and turned dark- his scars were beyond physical.
-Holdo - explained earlier
-Chewy (always)
-Internal conflict within the Resistance and FO
-CGI for the most part - a few weak areas
-Luke getting one ball back, too bad not both
-Resistance not getting any help from other systems - interesting development
-Yoda for the most part
-Snokes guards - not good at guarding but fun watching them fight
-Showing Poe is reckless
-Lukes planet has Just For Men hair coloring.
BUT, for all our kvetching, as my cousin reminded me, these are really kids movies. Just turn off your brain and enjoy the ride.
[doublepost=1513484945][/doublepost]
-Rose -Her acting was okay, but could have been a much more interesting character.
-Luke tossing the saber and being so non nonchalant at times- out of character. Plus I like the two suns but he should still have gone down fighting and have two suns over Crait.
-Some odd CGI.
-Vice Admiral Holdo - very interesting character and wasted. Dern would have made a great Leia replacement for IX. EASILY could have done reshoots and changed her fate. CGI Leia into the ship, sacrifices herself. Holdo becomes new resistance leader. Carrie sat in a few scenes CGI the background; re-edit the goodbye between her and Leia, cut to the ship turning and its Leia in the cockpit; HUGE MOMENT
-Why does the FO have all these capital ships yet can't launch more than a handful of fighters? They could EASILY overpower the resistance with sheer numbers.
-Speaking of which, why are their capitol ships so slow that they can't over take the resistance fleet? BAD writing - Rian didn’t know what to do with those characters so we get the slow speed chase like OJ is a resistance fighter and the FO is LAPD.
-BS Rey's parents were nobodies. She’s Kylo’s sister and they have been telegraphing that repeatedly. This will come out in IX.
-Why does it everyone mere hours to travel so far? Even at light speed it should take a while.
-Leia force flying was TERRIBLE, what was this Guardians of the Galaxy? I half expected her to reach to her ear and her mask to come out.
-The 'kids' learning to be the new resistance - yawn, flashbacks to Ep. 1.
-Porgs, Milkers - not necessary, in one case, gross in the other. Call back to the blue green milk on Tattoine.
-Snokes fate- terrible, most interesting character in the new trilogy.
-Those stupid hats the FO wear with the flaps sticking outwards - whose dumb idea was this? They are even more annoying now they've survived to a second movie.
-Stupid comic elements in the casino
-Poe's incredible luck.
-Rose. Self explanitory. Decent acting, but badly written character. Seems more like a business decision rather than good writing.
Good elements -
-Snoke - Although wasted by bad writing; I still think he’s was a Jedi who survived the purge and turned dark- his scars were beyond physical.
-Holdo - explained earlier
-Chewy (always)
-Internal conflict within the Resistance and FO
-CGI for the most part - a few weak areas
-Luke getting one ball back, too bad not both
-Resistance not getting any help from other systems - interesting development
-Yoda for the most part
-Snokes guards - not good at guarding but fun watching them fight
-Showing Poe is reckless
-Lukes planet has Just For Men hair coloring.
BUT, for all our kvetching, as my cousin reminded me, these are really kids movies. Just turn off your brain and enjoy the ride.
[doublepost=1513484945][/doublepost]
Lol exactly! We’ve never seen a brother sister family relation in SW before.Sure. Telegraphed so much that there was no speculation of relation to a known family...
It's a propanganda movie! Offensive? Ain't my problem that you find it offensive. Sorry but the movie is weak like that Ghostbuster 2017 movie.
He clearly missed most of the points. And people who get mad about there being too many women can go pound sand.
The point of the movie is to make money.
I love SW but I think there is WAY too much over analysis here. Too mania media studies I guess!
Enjoy the film(s) and watch them. Or don't.
But when we start analysing every element of every film, it somewhat misses the point!
I love SW but I think there is WAY too much over analysis here. Too mania media studies I guess!
Enjoy the film(s) and watch them. Or don't.
But when we start analysing every element of every film, it somewhat misses the point!
Exactly, we've seen a wide range of takes on the source material, and it's the same thing: not enough character development, too much, not the right "direction", why did they do X, why didn't they do Y ...
It's all so silly, these endless point-by-point "reviews", look right in this thread there's been thousand of [marginally coherent] words written on this, people wanting a back-n-forth internet argument, hahaha, there's idiots online posting videos of burning t-shirts, we saw, we liked, we're back to the real world
I'm surprised we haven't read any George would never have posts....!Exactly, we've seen a wide range of takes on the source material, and it's the same thing: not enough character development, too much, not the right "direction", why did they do X, why didn't they do Y ...
It's all so silly, these endless point-by-point "reviews", look right in this thread there's been thousand of [marginally coherent] words written on this, people wanting a back-n-forth internet argument, hahaha, there's idiots online posting videos of burning t-shirts, we saw, we liked, we're back to the real world
I thought that perhaps it would have made sense for it Leia to pilot the ship into the other ship (which was awesome when it went silent).
It would have been a good way to write her out of the series, given she is, y'know, unavailable for filming the next installment, and would have been infinitely preferable to whatever level of excessive CGI they plan on having in order to put her in the next one.
It would have been a good way to write her out of the series, given she is, y'know, unavailable for filming the next installment, and would have been infinitely preferable to whatever level of excessive CGI they plan on having in order to put her in the next one.
Because George wouldn’t have made any sequels. Idk why folks can’t face facts, without Disney there wouldn’t have been any more movies. And after thinking about it, the things people want are kindof ridiculous. They want the same family to keep producing offspring that keep choosing dark or light and fighting... rinse, repeat.. how is that a good story in perpetuity? Disney is going to cash in for sure (deservedly so after spending $4B). They will have this trilogy, more trilogies (that have been set up to not always be Skywalkers). More prequel movies (Solo, Kenobi..) but we get to enjoy them if we so choose to.
Now they are set up to go through this trilogy, and then start a whole new story and find out that *shocker* whoever the main protagonist is in that story is a Skywalker!!!
They have said they are not going to cgi her in... so, even worse they will say she died inbetween movies or is away on some mission..
Well some of live for this. Some don’t and just want a fun time for two hours. Both are ok. I just personally can’t understand why some get outraged if you have the opposite opinion to theirs. Someone on my Facebook feed posted a negative comment when I joked about posting no spoilers. He always posts negative comments when anything about Star Wars beyond the OT like it annoys him others like the other films. Hilarious.
I enjoyed it. I was entertained for two hours. That's it.
Yes, I was disappointed with Leia flying through space, but that was as much knowing the actress was dead as it being a stupid plot point.
As they say in another famous Disney movie: let it go.
Yes, I was disappointed with Leia flying through space, but that was as much knowing the actress was dead as it being a stupid plot point.
As they say in another famous Disney movie: let it go.
Was that the film that was recorded on Hoth?
A few things I agree and disagree with The Ringer -
Agree
Villains in most action and superhero films are similar to ones in James Bond. Disposal. A baddie wants to conquer before the hero saves the day. This is why most MCU/DCEU films are like 007 and Jason Bourne films. Forgettable after a few viewings. It's like watching 1960's Batman TV series. We know Batman and Robin will save the day.
Kylo Ren has potential to be a more complicated villain. Well, maybe.. It's an apologist article for bad and lazy writing. The actors is still quite young though to do more beyond Ep IX.
Rian is trying to be different with it.
Disagree
Being different doesn't excuse bad and lazy writing, Rian. Give us something. Ok, you don't want to explain to us about Snoke because he isn't important. Or Rey's parent. To you, it doesn't matter. To some of us, it kinda does.
Give us something to care about who Rey and Kylo are. I really don't care if Rey or Kylo dies in the next film. When we saw Luke, he sees a hologram, meets an old hermit, and returns to see his uncle and aunt burned to crisp. He had motivation to be a Jedi. He wanted to help. Then saw his teacher get struck down. When we see Anakin in AOTC, we saw the seed of his dark side when he slaughtered the sand people that captured his mother. Ani was also a slave and wanted his freedom. Luke & Ani had motives.
Kylo Ren is still an ungrateful, spoiled brat like Holden Caulfield in The Catcher In The Rye while he mocks Rey who comes from nothing. Ben is a kid with a silver spoon in his mouth. His parents are war heroes. Legends. Exactly WHO HURT YOU? Uncle Luke? Snoke? Both are gone now. What's your motive? You want to kill your uncle, you killed daddy, but you can't kill a girl twice who you barely know? Snoke called out on him for losing to a first-time Force user and wearing a mask. Vader needed one to survive. Kylo = poseur!
Motives and background info is required here. In their defense -
Quentin Tarantino can take 10 years to write a script. That's why his characters can be so rich with clever dialogue. It's nihilistic but witty. Abrams and Kasdan barely wrote a new script for SW like four years ago. You could even see the problem in Rogue One. Just toss in a bunch of different ethnicities into a film and see what happens.
This happened in the prequels as well when George Lucas only had 2-3 years to write a script. So he ended up writing mostly hollow characters.
JJ and Rian have completely different directing styles. That's why it lacks cohesion and Ep IX could really mess things up with JJ trying to make a ROTJ remake.
I like that they created a Stormtrooper defector and hotshot pilot but I still don't care about Finn or Poe. I'm not emotionally invested in them or an Asian female mechanic in Rose. I liked Kelly Marie Tran's performance being a newbie but I still don't care about that sub-plot.
Finn and Rose have good hearts. At least we are aware that their intentions are good. Isn't it sad that we know more about Finn than Rey? I find it odd that Kylo kills his daddy but told Rey he never hated him but Rey looked at Han almost like the daddy she always wanted. She barely met Han and was in tears twice for him.
Will probably watch it tomorrow or next day and my opinion could remain the same or a little better or worse. Like Darth Maul and Snoke, nearly sliced at the middle.
V
IV
VI
III
VIII
Rogue One
VII
I
II
Casual fans - love it
Hardcore fans - hate it
Critics - love it
User reviewers - hate it
Going to make 30% less than TFA which is still about $1.4B. Star Wars is NOT very big outside the U.S. Think NFL and Super Bowl. That's still a fortune.
Whatever complaints we have for Ep 8, guess what? Many of us are Day 1 for Solo, Ep 9, Obi-Wan, Ep 10, Ep 11, Ep 12, Prequel remake, et cetera, et cetera. It's like how we complain about iPhones and will still buy it.
At least Ep 9's expectations could be so low, it might pleasantly surprise me like how much I didn't like Captain America: The First Avenger until The Winter Soldier blew me away. With Snoke and Luke out of the picture, it makes Ep 9 a little more unpredictable and less of a ROTJ remake.
Star Wars' most popular character and face of the franchise is a villain who died a hero to save his son. I would have been completely cool with the fan theories being correct where Rey and Ben were to swap sides, but I guess one will continue to be a "Rebel-killer without a cause" and the other to be a Mary Sue. The latter being the new Barbie doll to sell to preteen girls. Gotta sell toys to a different demographic.
It's ok to fall in love with a stranger after you kill your father and wanted to kill your uncle...
"Reylo"
Agree
Villains in most action and superhero films are similar to ones in James Bond. Disposal. A baddie wants to conquer before the hero saves the day. This is why most MCU/DCEU films are like 007 and Jason Bourne films. Forgettable after a few viewings. It's like watching 1960's Batman TV series. We know Batman and Robin will save the day.
Kylo Ren has potential to be a more complicated villain. Well, maybe.. It's an apologist article for bad and lazy writing. The actors is still quite young though to do more beyond Ep IX.
Rian is trying to be different with it.
Disagree
Being different doesn't excuse bad and lazy writing, Rian. Give us something. Ok, you don't want to explain to us about Snoke because he isn't important. Or Rey's parent. To you, it doesn't matter. To some of us, it kinda does.
Give us something to care about who Rey and Kylo are. I really don't care if Rey or Kylo dies in the next film. When we saw Luke, he sees a hologram, meets an old hermit, and returns to see his uncle and aunt burned to crisp. He had motivation to be a Jedi. He wanted to help. Then saw his teacher get struck down. When we see Anakin in AOTC, we saw the seed of his dark side when he slaughtered the sand people that captured his mother. Ani was also a slave and wanted his freedom. Luke & Ani had motives.
Kylo Ren is still an ungrateful, spoiled brat like Holden Caulfield in The Catcher In The Rye while he mocks Rey who comes from nothing. Ben is a kid with a silver spoon in his mouth. His parents are war heroes. Legends. Exactly WHO HURT YOU? Uncle Luke? Snoke? Both are gone now. What's your motive? You want to kill your uncle, you killed daddy, but you can't kill a girl twice who you barely know? Snoke called out on him for losing to a first-time Force user and wearing a mask. Vader needed one to survive. Kylo = poseur!
Motives and background info is required here. In their defense -
Quentin Tarantino can take 10 years to write a script. That's why his characters can be so rich with clever dialogue. It's nihilistic but witty. Abrams and Kasdan barely wrote a new script for SW like four years ago. You could even see the problem in Rogue One. Just toss in a bunch of different ethnicities into a film and see what happens.
This happened in the prequels as well when George Lucas only had 2-3 years to write a script. So he ended up writing mostly hollow characters.
JJ and Rian have completely different directing styles. That's why it lacks cohesion and Ep IX could really mess things up with JJ trying to make a ROTJ remake.
I like that they created a Stormtrooper defector and hotshot pilot but I still don't care about Finn or Poe. I'm not emotionally invested in them or an Asian female mechanic in Rose. I liked Kelly Marie Tran's performance being a newbie but I still don't care about that sub-plot.
Finn and Rose have good hearts. At least we are aware that their intentions are good. Isn't it sad that we know more about Finn than Rey? I find it odd that Kylo kills his daddy but told Rey he never hated him but Rey looked at Han almost like the daddy she always wanted. She barely met Han and was in tears twice for him.
Will probably watch it tomorrow or next day and my opinion could remain the same or a little better or worse. Like Darth Maul and Snoke, nearly sliced at the middle.
V
IV
VI
III
VIII
Rogue One
VII
I
II
Casual fans - love it
Hardcore fans - hate it
Critics - love it
User reviewers - hate it
Going to make 30% less than TFA which is still about $1.4B. Star Wars is NOT very big outside the U.S. Think NFL and Super Bowl. That's still a fortune.
Whatever complaints we have for Ep 8, guess what? Many of us are Day 1 for Solo, Ep 9, Obi-Wan, Ep 10, Ep 11, Ep 12, Prequel remake, et cetera, et cetera. It's like how we complain about iPhones and will still buy it.
At least Ep 9's expectations could be so low, it might pleasantly surprise me like how much I didn't like Captain America: The First Avenger until The Winter Soldier blew me away. With Snoke and Luke out of the picture, it makes Ep 9 a little more unpredictable and less of a ROTJ remake.
Star Wars' most popular character and face of the franchise is a villain who died a hero to save his son. I would have been completely cool with the fan theories being correct where Rey and Ben were to swap sides, but I guess one will continue to be a "Rebel-killer without a cause" and the other to be a Mary Sue. The latter being the new Barbie doll to sell to preteen girls. Gotta sell toys to a different demographic.
It's ok to fall in love with a stranger after you kill your father and wanted to kill your uncle...
"Reylo"
Hardcore fan here that loves it so I think your statement is a little patronising.A few things I agree and disagree with The Ringer -
Agree
Villains in most action and superhero films are similar to ones in James Bond. Disposal. A baddie wants to conquer before the hero saves the day. This is why most MCU/DCEU films are like 007 and Jason Bourne films. Forgettable after a few viewings. It's like watching 1960's Batman TV series. We know Batman and Robin will save the day.
Kylo Ren has potential to be a more complicated villain. Well, maybe.. It's an apologist article for bad and lazy writing. The actors is still quite young though to do more beyond Ep IX.
Rian is trying to be different with it.
Disagree
Being different doesn't excuse bad and lazy writing, Rian. Give us something. Ok, you don't want to explain to us about Snoke because he isn't important. Or Rey's parent. To you, it doesn't matter. To some of us, it kinda does.
Give us something to care about who Rey and Kylo are. I really don't care if Rey or Kylo dies in the next film. When we saw Luke, he sees a hologram, meets an old hermit, and returns to see his uncle and aunt burned to crisp. He had motivation to be a Jedi. He wanted to help. Then saw his teacher get struck down. When we see Anakin in AOTC, we saw the seed of his dark side when he slaughtered the sand people that captured his mother. Ani was also a slave and wanted his freedom. Luke & Ani had motives.
Kylo Ren is still an ungrateful, spoiled brat like Holden Caulfield in The Catcher In The Rye while he mocks Rey who comes from nothing. Ben is a kid with a silver spoon in his mouth. His parents are war heroes. Legends. Exactly WHO HURT YOU? Uncle Luke? Snoke? Both are gone now. What's your motive? You want to kill your uncle, you killed daddy, but you can't kill a girl twice who you barely know? Snoke called out on him for losing to a first-time Force user and wearing a mask. Vader needed one to survive. Kylo = poseur!
Motives and background info is required here. In their defense -
Quentin Tarantino can take 10 years to write a script. That's why his characters can be so rich with clever dialogue. It's nihilistic but witty. Abrams and Kasdan barely wrote a new script for SW like four years ago. You could even see the problem in Rogue One. Just toss in a bunch of different ethnicities into a film and see what happens.
This happened in the prequels as well when George Lucas only had 2-3 years to write a script. So he ended up writing mostly hollow characters.
JJ and Rian have completely different directing styles. That's why it lacks cohesion and Ep IX could really mess things up with JJ trying to make a ROTJ remake.
I like that they created a Stormtrooper defector and hotshot pilot but I still don't care about Finn or Poe. I'm not emotionally invested in them or an Asian female mechanic in Rose. I liked Kelly Marie Tran's performance being a newbie but I still don't care about that sub-plot.
Finn and Rose have good hearts. At least we are aware that their intentions are good. Isn't it sad that we know more about Finn than Rey? I find it odd that Kylo kills his daddy but told Rey he never hated him but Rey looked at Han almost like the daddy she always wanted. She barely met Han and was in tears twice for him.
Will probably watch it tomorrow or next day and my opinion could remain the same or a little better or worse. Like Darth Maul and Snoke, nearly sliced at the middle.
V
IV
VI
III
VIII
Rogue One
VII
I
II
Casual fans - love it
Hardcore fans - hate it
Critics - love it
User reviewers - hate it
Going to make 30% less than TFA which is still about $1.4B. Star Wars is NOT very big outside the U.S. Think NFL and Super Bowl. That's still a fortune.
Whatever complaints we have for Ep 8, guess what? Many of us are Day 1 for Solo, Ep 9, Obi-Wan, Ep 10, Ep 11, Ep 12, Prequel remake, et cetera, et cetera. It's like how we complain about iPhones and will still buy it.
At least Ep 9's expectations could be so low, it might pleasantly surprise me like how much I didn't like Captain America: The First Avenger until The Winter Soldier blew me away. With Snoke and Luke out of the picture, it makes Ep 9 a little more unpredictable and less of a ROTJ remake.
Star Wars' most popular character and face of the franchise is a villain who died a hero to save his son. I would have been completely cool with the fan theories being correct where Rey and Ben were to swap sides, but I guess one will continue to be a "Rebel-killer without a cause" and the other to be a Mary Sue. The latter being the new Barbie doll to sell to preteen girls. Gotta sell toys to a different demographic.
It's ok to fall in love with a stranger after you kill your father and wanted to kill your uncle...
"Reylo"
I swear, every studio wants to make every hero into a heroine in Hollywood.
#metoo
MGM might as well make the roaring lion into a lioness. Hollywood has already ruined Ghostbusters.
Reason why I enjoyed Wonder Woman was its beginning. We got to know who Diana was. She's the daughter of Zeus. I like info and scenery like that.
The Last Jedi did move very quickly. Maybe the fastest pace since Sith. The Force Awakens stalled by the time they met Maz similar to Age of Ultron dragged by the time they went to Hawkeye's home. It was like 15-20 minutes of boredom. Rogue One didn't really capture my attention until the last 40 minutes. It mostly dragged even moreso than TFA. But the frenetic ending was one of the best for the franchise.
As for TLJ's ending? TLJ had arguably the worst. Some random kid from Canto Bight is the final shot? Nah. But the beginning and middle were all superior to the last two SW films.
I wasn't born when ANH came out and was still a fetus when TESB was released. So my "Star Wars" was Batman '89. It wasn't a movie I loved though. I didn't watch SW until early-1997 with Empire first, Jedi, then Hope. My dad bought two VHS tapes of V & VI from a pawn shop but no IV until a month later. Then I watched all of the Special Editions in this bargain theater near where I lived.
Empire was actually not my favorite before because it was so dark and ends like real life - a downer. My former fav was ROTJ. It was ROTJ, TESB, and ANH in that order. I liked ANH but I didn't truly love it. The first 20 minutes moved very slow. But then I saw Clerks (1994) making fun of ROTJ and made me realize how flawed ROTJ is. How can the Empire lose to Ewoks which had primitive weapons? Then the 2004 DVD release with Hayden ending just killed it for me. Yeah, like Luke carries a photo of his daddy when he was 22 to know that's him.
As years passed, Sith was my fav for over a decade but rewatching Empire a couple years ago which is the SW film released the year I was born made me realize this was how I got hooked to SW when Luke went to Dagobah. Thanks, Yoda. Had all my favorite SW characters in one film. Introduced "The Imperial March" and "Han and the Princess." Only time we saw Han use a lightsaber and had a scene with Vader. Extremely quotable. "Never tell me the odds."
Best pace -
ROTS
TLJ
ROTJ
TESB
ANH
TFA
AOTC
TPM
Rogue One
Some think TLJ moved slow but it actually moved pretty quickly for me. Maybe too much with the intercuts between different scenes. I also enjoyed it being the longest SW. I like fast-moving, long films.
Best lightsaber battles -
ROTS
TPM
ROTJ
TESB
AOTC
TLJ
TFA
ANH
Best ending -
ROTS
Rogue One
ANH (famous medal ceremony)
ROTJ
TESB
TFA
TPM (ANH rehash)
AOTC
TLJ (it ended weakest)
Empire doesn't rank tops in those three areas but it may always remain my favorite SW film ever. ROTS tops in all three but the story is a little too hokey. Anakin decides to turn and bow down to Palpatine without thinking the consequences just to save Padmé's life from a nightmare? Then Force chokes her later?
Empire is also the only film from the OT that actually benefitted from the Special Editions. No Greedo shooting first, crap Jabba CGI, Noooo!, and Hayden ending. Made Cloud City nicer and The Emperor's hologram was corrected.
#metoo
MGM might as well make the roaring lion into a lioness. Hollywood has already ruined Ghostbusters.
Reason why I enjoyed Wonder Woman was its beginning. We got to know who Diana was. She's the daughter of Zeus. I like info and scenery like that.
The Last Jedi did move very quickly. Maybe the fastest pace since Sith. The Force Awakens stalled by the time they met Maz similar to Age of Ultron dragged by the time they went to Hawkeye's home. It was like 15-20 minutes of boredom. Rogue One didn't really capture my attention until the last 40 minutes. It mostly dragged even moreso than TFA. But the frenetic ending was one of the best for the franchise.
As for TLJ's ending? TLJ had arguably the worst. Some random kid from Canto Bight is the final shot? Nah. But the beginning and middle were all superior to the last two SW films.
I wasn't born when ANH came out and was still a fetus when TESB was released. So my "Star Wars" was Batman '89. It wasn't a movie I loved though. I didn't watch SW until early-1997 with Empire first, Jedi, then Hope. My dad bought two VHS tapes of V & VI from a pawn shop but no IV until a month later. Then I watched all of the Special Editions in this bargain theater near where I lived.
Empire was actually not my favorite before because it was so dark and ends like real life - a downer. My former fav was ROTJ. It was ROTJ, TESB, and ANH in that order. I liked ANH but I didn't truly love it. The first 20 minutes moved very slow. But then I saw Clerks (1994) making fun of ROTJ and made me realize how flawed ROTJ is. How can the Empire lose to Ewoks which had primitive weapons? Then the 2004 DVD release with Hayden ending just killed it for me. Yeah, like Luke carries a photo of his daddy when he was 22 to know that's him.
As years passed, Sith was my fav for over a decade but rewatching Empire a couple years ago which is the SW film released the year I was born made me realize this was how I got hooked to SW when Luke went to Dagobah. Thanks, Yoda. Had all my favorite SW characters in one film. Introduced "The Imperial March" and "Han and the Princess." Only time we saw Han use a lightsaber and had a scene with Vader. Extremely quotable. "Never tell me the odds."
Best pace -
ROTS
TLJ
ROTJ
TESB
ANH
TFA
AOTC
TPM
Rogue One
Some think TLJ moved slow but it actually moved pretty quickly for me. Maybe too much with the intercuts between different scenes. I also enjoyed it being the longest SW. I like fast-moving, long films.
Best lightsaber battles -
ROTS
TPM
ROTJ
TESB
AOTC
TLJ
TFA
ANH
Best ending -
ROTS
Rogue One
ANH (famous medal ceremony)
ROTJ
TESB
TFA
TPM (ANH rehash)
AOTC
TLJ (it ended weakest)
Empire doesn't rank tops in those three areas but it may always remain my favorite SW film ever. ROTS tops in all three but the story is a little too hokey. Anakin decides to turn and bow down to Palpatine without thinking the consequences just to save Padmé's life from a nightmare? Then Force chokes her later?
Empire is also the only film from the OT that actually benefitted from the Special Editions. No Greedo shooting first, crap Jabba CGI, Noooo!, and Hayden ending. Made Cloud City nicer and The Emperor's hologram was corrected.
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I would have loved to have seen Fin die taking out the big laser, which put a very small hole in that door by the way.
