Start paying for OSX again.

[Durandal7]

Re: what the hell is your problem?

Originally posted by mozez
and you people seem to think that jaguar is a whole new os, it isn't, i'm using 6c98, and yes it has speed improvements, yes it has some graphic changes, but it's still 10, not anything like 9 to x was, this is a service pack, it fixes things, it puts what was supposed to be in the origanol x, in this release. see, most of what jaguar is, is what we who bought x the day it came out in support of apple thought it could do, but we got a beta os, not the one we were promised.

Nothing was like from 9 to X except maybe the original Mac OS. You won't see anything that drastic for another 10 years. I thought that 9 was so similar to 8.6 that I never got it until I bought OS X. Look at 7.6 to 8 or 6 to 7. Never in Apple history was there that major an overhaul and you can't expect them to grind one out every year.

 

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
is it possible you are really this stupid? hm. perhaps. i will try to be patient with you. first go back and read my post (yes the whole things). then when you realize what a fool you have made of yourself go back and edit your post to remove the personal insults.

and it is also unreasonable to personally insult someone on these forums, especially if you have not even read their post. before you rant about how dumb someone is perhaps you should read what they wrote.

You really should follow your own advise... Also, learn how to put capitalization into your posts... Makes it a LOT easier to read when you can at least see some kind of sentence structure. You could also read over your posts, to correct all of those typo's that permeate them.

BTW, YOU are the one that keeps going on and on and on and on about the free part...

To constantly ask people to pay for updates that are mostly either bug fixes, or adding features that should have been there in the first place is more then a bit harsh. Even m$ doesn't do that. Even they offer updates from one OS to a newer one at less then full cost. It also doesn't matter if your system came with the OS, or you went out and purchased it seperately to put on one you built.

Again (and for the FINAL time), Apple could EASILY extend the upgrade price to people that have purchased systems since MWSF, or even MW Tokyo (a measly 5 months prior to 10.2 ships and about 2 weeks before 10.2 was announced at the WWDC). Again, it WOULD do a hell of a lot more for their public relations at this point to do something along those lines. Apple has pissed off more then a few people with what they are now charging for.

Not everyone has a business, or way to recoup the costs of the OS updates and such. IF I was a business, I would't care, but I am not, so I do.

 

[Foocha]

Try to be nice to each other guys.

10.0 was not a complete OS - it was unstable, and there was limited software support. It would have been totally unreasonable to charge 10.0 owners for it.

10.1 is very usable - from my experience it's faster and more reliable than previous Mac OS's. The 10.1.X updates were clearly intended to patch up 10.1 so that Apple could justify a full price update with 10.2.

I think that part of the confusion here is arising from a change in Apple's naming scheme. System 7 was released in 1992, and no further numeric updates were released until 1997, with the release of Mac OS 8 (not the change in naming scheme). This lengthly delay was the result of the failure of the Copland project. In fact, Mac OS 8 was fairly indistiguishable from System 7 - the main difference was the introduction of limited TCP/IP support and the Platinum GUI which had been intended for Copland. Mac OS 8.5 was another paid for upgrade released one year later, with some GUI fixes and little else. Mac OS 9 was released two years later - again it was hardly worthy of a new number, especially when you consider the radical changes that System 7 went through over it's 5 year life without getting a new name.

Apple had accelerated the rate of OS releases in the late 90's because it was a cheap way of generating revenue. This combined with the fact that they wanted to call the new BSD based OS "Mac OS X" is what led them to naming Mac OS 8.7 Mac OS 9.

Now that X is out of the starting gate, I believe Apple is going to stick with 10 for a long time (as they did with 7). This is because they're using the 10/X to indicate the new BSD OS. The point increases are no less significant that updates like OS 9 was to OS 8.6, and the up-to-date programme applies now just as always - to Mac purchasers who purchase their Mac after the new OS is announce, and prior th machines shipping with it preinstalled.

If you got to the end of this posting - thanks for your time, and I hope it made sense!

 

[AlphaTech]

Hey Foocha, I guess you completely forgot about 7.5 and 7.6 (not to mention the .1's in there). Let's also not forget about 8.1, 8.5, 8.6 either.

As for OS X 10.0, there were also updates of that to FIX the bugs, with it ending around 10.0.4. 10.1 was supposed to be a major update, even though Apple did release it for free (to a few lucky people) or for $20 (for those that wanted JUST the OS install, not the developers tools).

As for charging for 10.2, I see it a bad customer relations move, especially with them announcing that the iTools is now a pay feature. IF they had spaced it out a bit, it would have softened the blow/impact enough that people wouldn't think as much about it. But, with SJ announcing both in the same keynote, it was a bad move.

How would you feel if you took the car you purchased about 6 months ago in for service and they told you that in order for them to install a replacement part that will give you better gas mileage as well as activate several features that have been sitting dormant (due to the part not being installed yet), you will have to pay $x00?? People would be bullsh*t over that.

 

[voicegy]

*sigh*

Geesh, let's rip our small community to shreds (and I don't just mean the guys and gals at MacRumors, but the Mac community at large) over relatively small amounts of dollars.

Get real, think about whatever else you're into besides Macs and related things. Motocycles. Antiques. Rare books. Exotic plants. Any other hobby or what-have-you I can think of. None of us would BLINK at dropping a premium amount of money on something that adds to our joy of life.

While others may see that my spending 150 bucks on a rare Kraftwerk vinyl album that glows in the dark as OUTRAGEOUS, it happens to not sting me because it's something I want, I know it works well, it looks great, and my percieved value of it and in the eyes of others involved in the collection of such things is higher than the amount paid anyway.

Is a hundred bucks really that much?! When I was a just out of high school droid, I'd drop 30 bucks worth of quarters on video games to while away an afternoon, and I worked at flippin' Burger King.

I know you can't draw an EXACT corollary with what I'm trying to say above, but we're talking about something much bigger here. There's many programmers with mouths to feed at home that worked their collective butts off to bring this work of art, this thing of beauty to the masses. They put out a beta, then a few more upgrades, and add and subtract according to inside decisions and CUSTOMER feedback. Operating System software is a living beast, and is at the heart of any personal computer. Apple believes that this is their Rolls Royce..and packed it with "i" this and "i" that to make it even more attractive, not to mention upgrades to all those OTHER "i" software packages that were GIVEN away (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto) what, you think those things were thrown together over a weekend and didn't cost anything?

Then little Apple (yeah, 4 billion in the bank in cash reserves, I know, I know...) that started in a friggin' garage, was almost destroyed in the mid '90's, had a goal to reach people like us who "get it", that has surprised and delighted us, filled us with pride, given us outstanding examples of marriages of art and science and I could go on and on and on about our favorite company on Earth (next to Harley-Davidson and Bang & Olufsen wink wink nod nod) and what a fun relationship it has been and the community has the GALL to FLIP OUT COMPLETELY about forking over what amounts to a few trips to the ATM or the amount of flippin' Starbucks coffee some of us drink over a couple of months.

Is this the generation of GIMME GIMME speaking here? The same people who BELIEVE that artists who create shouldn't be appropriately compensated for their craft? Downloading movies and music without paying a cent for it, believing that the world owes them whatever they can get for nothing.

You know who I think of as I go over all this in my mind? The guys and gals behind the scenes who brought OS X The Latest Version to fruition. Those greedy jerk-offs who work from 10 in the morning until 3 in the afternoon 4 days a week and all drive hot cars and still aren't satisfied? No...I'm talking about the people who worked overtime to get us this far, going home to the wife and the kid(s) and saying "Honey, it seems the community doesn't put value to our work...sometimes I feel that its all for nothing."

The price is set. Scream and yell and blabber about it all you want. Or go over to the PeeCee world. Or at least find a buddy in the education biz and get a discount that way. Or just go ahead and steal it...Apple deserves that after all, don't they?

Flame away...I know I'm pretty out of character with this particular post, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to soap-box...and after all, it's just MY opinion.

 

[Marianco]

CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP

Apple's software updates are a lot cheaper than Windows. Windows XP Pro Update costs $179 at Costco ($199 list). And this is not even the full version, which is closer to $300.

You have to realize that OS Companies have to make revenue each year for their product, through updates. Apple is included.

If you bought Microsoft Windows XP and never updated again, Microsoft would never make money off of you after the initial purchase. This would be death to Microsoft since the computer industry is maturing from a growth industry into a replacement industry (where things are replaced only when worn out, such as TVs). Thus Microsoft is turning Windows into a subscription service, where you have to pay each year to continue using the OS. And, you have to pay Microsoft for each PC you want to update.

Apple at least doesn't have per-seat fees. Thus if you have 5 PCs and 5 Macs in your home, the cost of upgrading your OS is as follows:

Mac OS X times 5 Macs = $129
Windows XP Pro times 5 PCs = $199 times 5 = $995.

Apple's fee for Mac OS X is very reasonable.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Marianco

Great use of common sense!

Funny how people that whine and complain about the Price of Mac OS never mention stuff like this. Nor do they mention that Apple doesn't come down on Mac users for selling their OLD OS' on eBay. Search today and you'll see lot's of 10.x version for 40.00 and up. Since Apple offers FULL CDS purchasing and installing these are easy because no Serial number is needed. Only BSD/Linux is cheaper to deploy than Apple and they're missing out on lot's of stuff like Quicktime and other Apple only Tech.

 

[Hemingray]

I, for one, will not be purchasing 10.2 because not only of the cost, but because my hardware isn't even supported for "Quartz Extreme". I'm just going to wait until I see some new PowerMacs worth buying. By then 10.2 will be bundled and I will get it as part of the cost of the new computer. I think I can wait that long... after all, I've been waiting for about two years now to upgrade my tower, what's another year?

 

[Foocha]

I may be wrong, but with the exception of 7.5, I don't remember any of the System 7 point updates being paid for updates.

The point I'm trying to make is that I believe Apple has now decided to make point updates (with a funny name like "Jaguar" for marketing reasons) rather than numeric updates from now on, so that they can stick with the number 10. This in no way means that the updates are less significant or worth paying for than the update from 8.6 to 9.

 

[kansaigaijin]

pay again and again

I paid full retail (¥14,800) for 10.1
I didn't need it, I could have waited for waited for the polished version, but I liked the multi-language support. Couldn't use a nearly new printer etc, had to boot into the 9.x that came with the computer to do that.

"Software companies need to make money"

Apple is a hardware co. I don't want iChat etc, I think they are getting into M$ territory and should leave the add-ons stuff to developers, why would anyone develop for MacOS anymore apple just keeps taking their space. I don't even want stupid spring loaded folders!

They are just adding on a lot of crap to justify charging again for what we should have got in the first place, which was a reasonably fast, functional OS.

I completely agree with Alpha, $50 would be reasonable for those that paid retail for 10.1 or bought a system since 10.1 came out.

 

[groovebuster]

Apple's cash-cow "loyal user"...

Even I disagree very often with Alpha on a lot of things, but on this subject I fully agree with him. It is plain rediculous that Appke is not offering a decent upgrade path for the previous users of MacOS X.

OK, Mac OS X is pretty stable, but it lacks a lot of features so far that makes working with it is a pain in the *ss. 10.2 is finally giving us the features we were promised since the beginning when the first ß came out.

Let me tell you that I bought a 10.1 for my Wallstreet this February, since I wanted to be on the same Level OS wise with the rest of my machines. On the Apple website it said that the Wallstreet is supported by MacOS X. You can't imagine how mad I was when I found out what they consider "supported"!

It runs on the Wallstreet, no question about it, but it's useless:

1. SCSI doesn't work!
2. ADB doesn't work!
3. FloppyDrive (an original Apple part!) doesn't work!
4. No hardware acceleration for the ATI graphics chip since no drivers are available, so the GUI is slooooooow like a snail!
5. Serial port is not supported!
6. Mirroring of monitors doesn't work

And I didn't know that since Apple didn't mention at all any of those issues, making me buying an OS that is totally useless on that machine! I can't do anything with the PowerBook except working on the network... at least the CD-Drive still works. But what's the point, when the GUI is slow like hell and uses almost all of the processor power??? Just moving the mouse is using about 20% of the processor.

That was the first time I was really mad about Apple. They could have told me before that my Wallstreet is supported but it doesn't make sense to run MacOS X on it because of the reasons mentioned above! But they just wanted to make money! That is not the correct behaviour towards a customer.

But besides that MacOS 10.1 is far from being a "finished" OS you can work with. Networking is not working properly and to connect to another Mac is so sloooooow. Printer support sucks big time, the GUI is slow in general, etc... pp... All things that an user needs every day when using a computer. I am working a lot with with Audio apps. I still boot in MacOS 9 to do that. And why? Almost no Audio apps available so far. And that isn't the fault of the software companies, it is because the so badly needed audio core is not implemented in MacOS X so far. For me MacOS X 10.2 is finally a version that deserves to be called a 100% alternative to MacOS 9, but to charge the people who used it before the full price, paying already for an unfinished product isn't part of a good CRM. Without all the early adopters, giving the feedback needed to improve the MacOS X to a real competitive OS it would have flopped badly.

I am self-employed myself and to just state that it is the way business goes to charge my customers in any way I like to doesn't work on the long run. The customers pay me for something I'm doing for them. He's basing his decision on comparison to other competitors in the market. And that's involving also customer support. If I would charge them for a product I delivered already with flaws the full price again, without even warning them before, just to give them finally what they ordered once, I am pretty sure that next time they would do the business with someone else.

Apple is a business, of course! But also a business should be run with at least a little bit thankfulness to loyal customers. Without all the pro users sticking with Apple also in bad times that company wold be history already. If they really start to forget that and only do decisions based on "cold numbers" in the future, there will be no loyality in the future anymore also by the users, they also will base their decisons just on economical facts. And if Apple will survive that with the given products they offer? I highly doubt it!

What made Apple survive all the years was that feeling of a "community" of Apple users, the pilosophy of "Think different!". It changes slowly into "as different as we have to be to gain maximum profit".

If that difference gets lost now I see hard times for Apple in the future coming up. I feel a little bit betrayed and this is more a feeling in the stomach than pure rational. For us Mac lovers it was always more than rational to use Macs and Apple was cultivating that feeling all the time. That's what made Apple survive.

I don't expect to get an update like that for free, but the full price for everyone is a slap in the face. Unfortunately I need the Update and therefore I have to buy it no matter what. This is exactly what Apple knows... the people really need the update and they take advantage of it. I don't know why Apple is spoiling it always just when it seems that they get out of the mud...

The hardware is on top of that, but already discussed enough in other threads.

groovebuster

 

[Foocha]

I've been using OS X 10.1 since it came out, and I can honestly say that I could *never* go back to using OS 9 again - I'd rather use Windows XP.

10.1 is already a substantially better product than OS 9. And 10.2 will take it to a whole new level.

10.2 offers functionality beyond 10.1 and way beyond 9. It would be wrong to describe it as a bug fix, and as such I can see no reason why it should be free.

I don't recall OS 9 or 10.1 offering Active Directory support and Windows network browsing. That's no bug fix - that's significant new functionality. If you don't need the new features, and don't want to pay, stick with 10.1.

 

[AmbitiousLemon]

i dont see any people who feel jipped by apple who are actually thinking logically. that alone is the single biggest thing that stands out to me about all of this.

we have lots of people who think it should be free. completely ridiculous. then we have folks thinking that they deserve a discount. guess what? there is an upgrade path, and it is the same as has been used by apple in the past.

we all knew jaguar would come out in 'late summer' (=august/sepetember) and yet knowing this people like alph seemed to think they would be able to get a discount when they purchased months before the release of jaguar. this is just like buying a brand new computer right before a mw. it sucks. i feel sorry for you, but you screwed up and made a bad decision that was a result of poor planning on your part. apple is providing an upgrade path (something so many of your ignore), what seems o bother you is that you did not fit into the time frame for the path. one or two months is all you should have expected from apple, because this is what they have done in the past. expecting more is simply poor judgement on your part. the poor decision was your own not apple's.

groov. the wallstreet is the slowest mac that fits apple's 'supported' guidelines, and you have heard people complain about how slow osx is for many months and yet you made the decision to buy. i can very well beleive that osx was not very good on your wallstreet, i had the same impression of osx on my lombard, but again this was merely a poor decision on your part. you took the oldest most obsolete piece of computer and installed an os witha reputation for being slow on new machines, you should have known what you were getting into. all the issues you mentioned were well known and well discussed on apple's website as well as on most mac sites around the web. you made a poor decision, and yes it sucks but you cant blame apple for that. i know that when i get something new and if even the smallest thing is wrong i am very upset. i expect perfection, and when i dont get it im pissed. that is the reaction i see from you now. you are angry and not reacting logically. itunes3 has been giving me all kinds of problems but im not going to rage against apple about it.

o and btw, if you want that hardware acceleration on your wallstreet there is a lil hack to enable it, message me if you want to try.

 

[groovebuster]

Re: *sigh*

Originally posted by voicegy
Get real, think about whatever else you're into besides Macs and related things. Motocycles. Antiques. Rare books. Exotic plants. Any other hobby or what-have-you I can think of. None of us would BLINK at dropping a premium amount of money on something that adds to our joy of life.

We are talking about a tool, not a stamp collection, right?

Originally posted by voicegy
I know you can't draw an EXACT corollary with what I'm trying to say above, but we're talking about something much bigger here. There's many programmers with mouths to feed at home that worked their collective butts off to bring this work of art, this thing of beauty to the masses. They put out a beta, then a few more upgrades, and add and subtract according to inside decisions and CUSTOMER feedback. Operating System software is a living beast, and is at the heart of any personal computer. Apple believes that this is their Rolls Royce..and packed it with "i" this and "i" that to make it even more attractive, not to mention upgrades to all those OTHER "i" software packages that were GIVEN away (iTunes, iMovie, iPhoto) what, you think those things were thrown together over a weekend and didn't cost anything?

I couldn't care less for the iApps. None of them helps me to get my work done. They are consumer oriented. I wouldn't mind if they wouldn't come with the OS, if the OS would be better then.

Originally posted by voicegy
Is this the generation of GIMME GIMME speaking here? The same people who BELIEVE that artists who create shouldn't be appropriately compensated for their craft? Downloading movies and music without paying a cent for it, believing that the world owes them whatever they can get for nothing.

No, it is the people speaking who think that being ripped by the company we made survive all the years is not OK. Did I get my OS X for free before? I don't think so. I BOUGHT it! So they got already my money for it. Now it is their turn to meet the promises they made all the time and charging me again for the beta-testing I did for them all the months.

Originally posted by voicegy
You know who I think of as I go over all this in my mind? The guys and gals behind the scenes who brought OS X The Latest Version to fruition. Those greedy jerk-offs who work from 10 in the morning until 3 in the afternoon 4 days a week and all drive hot cars and still aren't satisfied? No...I'm talking about the people who worked overtime to get us this far, going home to the wife and the kid(s) and saying "Honey, it seems the community doesn't put value to our work...sometimes I feel that its all for nothing."

You start to make fun, huh?

The same they demand I do as a loyal user! He wouldn't have a job anymore if I wouldn't have paid for his beta-software all the time. Now that he finally made it to deliver something that WORKS he can't just come up and tell me: "Thanks for beta-testing my stuff, if you wonna have the final product please pay the full prrice again now!"

Originally posted by voicegy
The price is set. Scream and yell and blabber about it all you want. Or go over to the PeeCee world. Or at least find a buddy in the education biz and get a discount that way. Or just go ahead and steal it...Apple deserves that after all, don't they?

I think I don't have to comment this!

Originally posted by voicegy
Flame away...I know I'm pretty out of character with this particular post, but I'm thankful for the opportunity to soap-box...and after all, it's just MY opinion.

Of course it is your opinion... and I think it is wrong!

groovebuster

 

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by Foocha
I don't recall OS 9 or 10.1 offering Active Directory support and Windows network browsing. That's no bug fix - that's significant new functionality. If you don't need the new features, and don't want to pay, stick with 10.1.

Nobody wants it for free... show me one peson in this thread who said that!

groovebuster

 

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon

groov. the wallstreet is the slowest mac that fits apple's 'supported' guidelines, and you have heard people complain about how slow osx is for many months and yet you made the decision to buy. i can very well beleive that osx was not very good on your wallstreet, i had the same impression of osx on my lombard, but again this was merely a poor decision on your part. you took the oldest most obsolete piece of computer and installed an os witha reputation for being slow on new machines, you should have known what you were getting into. all the issues you mentioned were well known and well discussed on apple's website as well as on most mac sites around the web. you made a poor decision, and yes it sucks but you cant blame apple for that. i know that when i get something new and if even the smallest thing is wrong i am very upset. i expect perfection, and when i dont get it im pissed. that is the reaction i see from you now. you are angry and not reacting logically. itunes3 has been giving me all kinds of problems but im not going to rage against apple about it.

Oh and btw, if you want that hardware acceleration on your wallstreet there is a lil hack to enable it, message me if you want to try.

I knew it would be slow, but I considered it OK to do just some Office work with it and to transport files, etc... pp. I never expected it to be a mobile graphic workstation still (even it could still be one with MacOS 9). But that nothing of the hardware would be supported wasn't said by Apple and I think they are obliged to do so. The problem was discussed in the support area, that is true. But when Apple says a product is supported I expect that all the features are supported as well and if not that they tell me right away, before I spend the money and that I don't have to read several support and news groups to maybe find some issues before the purchase. That's my logic about something like that. I didn't expect MacOS X to be extraordinarily fast on my Wallstreet, but I didn't expect that it is even slower than it has to because of missing drivers and that I can't use any peripherals anymore.

I think we just have different opinions about that.

Besides that the hack would be highly appreciated! I heard about it before, but never had the time to get deeper into it, since I am running the Wallstreet almost all the time with MacOS 9 again. So if you could send me the instructions how to do that would be really cool, I would be really thankful! I bet it'as worth try. Is the speed increase noticeable?

groovebuster

 

[skyhawk]

Gelfin, dude, are you in a drunken stuper or what? Where is the irony? Maybe you read another post and pasted mine instead and tried desperately to make an arguement. You write software and you have a job and people need money. Well that explains everything! Now it makes sense. I'm going to place my order for jaguar, hey why stop there, I'll order one for you too. Just wait outside your door, I'll have brown deliver it to to asap. I'm glad you set me straight! After all, I'm just a kid that needs to grow up. O.k., quit reading and wait outside the door. Go, go, go on now!

 

[AlphaTech]

Hey lemon, HOW is purchasing the new TiBook within a few weeks of it coming out (MW Tokyo ya twit) poor planning??? I purchased the new TiBook because Apple finally got off their thumbs and put a decent video card inside of it.

You keep making yourself look like a corporate suck-up with statements like that...

You don't see me complaining about paying for 10.1 do you??? That is, unless you are viewing the world through beer goggles.

I never complained about purchasing the Mac OS before, mainly because it was reasonably priced at $100. While the extra $30 might not seem like much to some of you rich twits, for a lot of people it is enough to make them think twice. Especially when we also have a new QT6 Pro key to purchase, and the .mac account to pay for (only $50, but still it all adds up).

BTW, if I remember correctly, 10.1 was offered at a reduced rate for people that purchased systems that CAME with OS X on them. You had to get it from Apple, and wait until they shipped it to you, but it was at least offered.

I have a friend that might be able to make purchases at the educational price, since he works for a college. If possible, I will be getting it from him. Or maybe I will see if my sister can help me to get it for less then the $130 (she is a teacher).

 

[sturm375]

It's not the $129

It's not the $129 that gets me. It's the $3500 I spent on a TiPB, that won't run QE. This TiPB is less than a year old (about 11 months at the time of 10.2 release), and when I bought it, it was the Mid-range. The only diference between the mid-range and high-end, was Airport, larger HD, and more RAM. I bought the Airport, Upgraded the HD and RAM, but I am still stuck with 8 MB of Video RAM, which isn't enough for QE.

Before buying I waited more than 3 months for 10.1 to come out, as soon as it did, I ordered. This is why I am pissed.


BTW:
10.2 = Service Pack (Bug Patch) = FREE everywhere else!


Question:
Do you suppose there will be some parallel updates ie: 10.2.1 and 10.1.7? or are we finished with 10.1.5

 

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by skyhawk
Gelfin, dude, are you in a drunken stuper or what? Where is the irony? Maybe you read another post and pasted mine instead and tried desperately to make an arguement. You write software and you have a job and people need money. Well that explains everything! Now it makes sense. I'm going to place my order for jaguar, hey why stop there, I'll order one for you too. Just wait outside your door, I'll have brown deliver it to to asap. I'm glad you set me straight! After all, I'm just a kid that needs to grow up. O.k., quit reading and wait outside the door. Go, go, go on now!

It's "stupor," and no I'm not. The irony is the part where you claim anybody who doesn't agree with you is retarded and needs to be kept away from the real world, a place where you yourself clearly do not live.

You're throwing a little tantrum, demanding that Apple work really hard to make something you want, and also demanding that they don't charge you any money for it. This isn't about some point of principle. This is about you wanting something for nothing. Apple has historically been very good about giving their customers various perks for free -- things that other vendors tend to charge for or not provide at all. And you just take that for granted and demand more. Apple needs money to pay for both work they've already done and work planned for the future. If they don't get that money from the people who benefit from the work they do, where would you suggest they get it?

The rest of your post makes absolutely no sense, and does absolutely nothing to change my opinion about you. In fact, I'm now pretty sure you're a lot younger than I had initially estimated. I tend to have too high expectations of people, I know, but I can't imagine anyone who has spent any length of time fully supporting himself having such a childish attitude.

If you really want this upgrade, fork out the cash. If you don't think it's worth the cash, don't do the upgrade. It's not a very difficult choice, and nobody's twisting your arm either way.

 

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Ahhh - how refreshing it is to see you folks playing nicely together...

...not.

Look at yourselves - you're tearing each other apart. Sure, everyone's got an opinion, and if you don't agree, well that's just fine. It's what our relatives fought for in the War - freedom of speech. Just don't take it so much to heart - it's not as if it's going to affect the world balance for chrissakes!

Anyway - I for one am going to wait a little while before I take the plunge and upgrade to OSX.2, because I want all of this smoke to blow over to see what Apple are going to do next (re: the price of Jaguar, and the demise of iTools).

I'd definitely upgrade if the price were right - since I'm on OS 10.1.5 at the moment, I feel that I should be entitled to the smaller upgrade path. After all - it's what all the new Macs have installed, and they get the small upgrade for a little under $20. Does that mean the disk I get will be the same upgrade disk supplied to the new Mac owners at the inflated price of £99? And what about those magical little vouchers you get when you buy your system software? What's the point of giving them to us with the previous incarnation of OSX when Apple had absolutely no intention of honouring them?

Oh well - I guess it beats talking about .mac...

 

[Sun Baked]

Under Apple's old naming scheme it may have been MacOS 10.5, but those idiots said they had a tm for System 10 - and Apple spent a heck of a lot to equate Unix with OS X.

Wouldn't make sense to kill the name recognition before you have critical mass for OS X.

 

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Under Apple's old naming scheme it may have been MacOS 10.5, but those idiots said they had a tm for System 10 - and Apple spent a heck of a lot to equate Unix with OS X.

Wouldn't make sense to kill the name recognition before you have critical mass for OS X.

Thanks for noticing. I was beginning to think I was the only one. Apple really wants to keep the version numbers low because they want to keep "OS X" as a trademark. "X" does double duty as "ten" in the roman numeral sense, and also as the letter "X" as being traditionally representative of UNIX-based systems. "OS XI" would be a confusing and less powerful brand, and "OS X 11.0" would annoy the picky. So I've come to think it's reasonable to assume that the major version number will remain "10" for the forseeable future, while the minor version number actually represents a major release of OS X, and the tertiary number represents a minor OS X revision level. This is actually consistent with what they've done so far. 10.1 was a major upgrade, and 10.1.x releases are service updates through Software Update (which are, in fact, always free).

10.2 is a major update both under this numbering scheme and in practical terms. Any release wherein they replace the entire underpinnings of the GUI subsystem (as in the transition from Quartz to QE) cannot be regarded as merely a "bug fix." Even if Quartz were buggy (which I find it's not), patching it is a minor operation. Replacing it is not.

 

[sparkleytone]

the majority of the enhancements of OS X.2 are begun at the kernel level. kernel coding is probably the single most difficult, time consuming, and expensive forms of programming there are. the code must be perfect or else it will not work. then they had to put a working GUI on top of it using an engine that is fast, efficient, and user friendly. not an easy thing to do. look at linux, which hasn't been able to do it yet.

things like samba, ical, and rendezvous are reasons i have preordered my OS X.

that and the fact that i never really bought OS X in the first place, it came with my computer. I don't really count that.

 

[AlphaTech]

sturm375, which TiBook do you have?? If you have the rev. b, then you WILL be able to run QE (Apple is saying ANY Radeon card will do it, which the rev. b has, 16MB of it actually).

Even if you have the rev. a (400/500MHz) you will be able to run 10.2, it just won't run as fast compared to someone with a Radeon (or better) video card.

BTW, I am working on getting a copy of 10.2 at less then retail. That's not to say I won't run out and get it from the Apple store instead of waiting for it, but I have to explore the different options first. If it ends up costing almost as much as the full retail after shipping and such, I will probably just cruise on up into NH and get it without paying sales tax. Yes, I won't send in the tax to MA... you hear that mcrain???