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Start paying for OSX again.

Or even better still...

...How about just finding someone who has just bought a new Mac (or is about to), and buying the upgrade disk from them when they're finished installing it?

(it's a pity I don't know anyone out there whose about to buy a new Mac - perhaps anyone in that position might consider selling their upgrade disk on eBay?)

:D
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech
sturm375, which TiBook do you have?? If you have the rev. b, then you WILL be able to run QE (Apple is saying ANY Radeon card will do it, which the rev. b has, 16MB of it actually).

Even if you have the rev. a (400/500MHz) you will be able to run 10.2, it just won't run as fast compared to someone with a Radeon (or better) video card.
Click to expand...

Rev. A 500 MHz

8 MB Video. Everything else, should be find for 10.2

Unfortnuatly, there's not a damn thing anybody can do, it's just a dissappointment. The first Apple I buy, which I bought because of Apples reputation of long lasting hardware, is already too old for the next OS:(
 
First off I am an Apple Lover Through and Through. Now that thats said, there are all very good arguments here. I work at a school and just 3 weeks ago we bought 200 licences for 10.1, even amidst a budget crisis. Now it seems that we are to pay full price for all these licences again if we want to use 10.2. I see no reason why this should be after we just plunked down a few grand to buy these licences. I'm not supporting Microsoft here but Microsoft doesn't charge everytime a service pack comes out. This priceing scheme is going to hurt apple in the long run. This new fiasco has just given our PC loving Administrator one more reason to tell us to go all PC's.....we don't want that to happen but if Apple continues to try and Milk every penny they can out of us we will be forced(willing or not) to switch to the dark side.
 
Originally posted by sturm375
Rev. A 500 MHz

8 MB Video. Everything else, should be find for 10.2

Unfortnuatly, there's not a damn thing anybody can do, it's just a dissappointment. The first Apple I buy, which I bought because of Apples reputation of long lasting hardware, is already too old for the next OS:(
Click to expand...

Your computer is NOT too old to run 10.2, you just won't get the speed BOOST from QE. :rolleyes: You guys need to read over the requirements again... Go here, and you will see your TiBook as being able to run 10.2.

From the requirements page
Confirm that your hardware can run Mac OS X Version 10.2 Jaguar
Mac OS X Version 10.2 requires a Power Mac G3, G4, G4 Cube; iMac; PowerBook G3, G4; iBook; or eMac computer; at least 128MB of physical RAM and a built-in display or a display connected to an Apple-supplied video card. Mac OS X does not support the original PowerBook G3 or processor upgrade cards. Verify your hardware is supported from the list below.
Click to expand...
 
I agreed with Kettle. Everything else about my age, my convictions, my employment status and demands on Apple were completely fabricated. If Apple doesn't make another piece of hardware or software or completely falls into the Pacifice or goes ENRON, it won't bother me a bit. I have made a choice. I choose not to pay for OS X again. Call in whinning, call it disloyal, call it cheap, call it what you like. But know this, neither you nor Janet Reno can make me cough up $130 and I can prove it to you starting now! If you and others don't like whinning, don't click on a forum that is obviously going to irritate you, unless you enjoy fabricating personallities, instead of writing software like you're supposed to be doing. But I sure hope your opinion of me is positive or I won't be able to sleep! Please All Knowing One, I'll believe in professional wrestling if you want me to! If I would have known before I made a post that it had to be approved by you, I would have never bothered. I got to go, I'm sure I'm missing something for nothing somewhere!
 
Originally posted by kaltsasa
I work at a school and just 3 weeks ago we bought 200 licences for 10.1, even amidst a budget crisis. Now it seems that we are to pay full price for all these licences again if we want to use 10.2. I see no reason why this should be after we just plunked down a few grand to buy these licences.
Click to expand...

I work for a school district and if I were in your situation I would be happy with what I have and go for it. Are you saying you cannot be productive with OS 10.1? Are you saying that without Jaguar you might as well toss all the computers in the junk heap and give up and go get some Gateways?

I honestly just don't get it. To be fair, perhaps I should ask: what in Jaguar do your teachers and students absolutely need in order to be productive in your studies? I'll bet no one would even know the difference nor care...as long as you are running software that fits in the curriculum.
 
If we get some computer orders in after August 24th, and come with 10.2, I might just use that to install. ;)

That is something you should consider at the school as well... Whatever you get in for new systems after August 24th should come with 10.2, so just use that cd to install it onto the systems you need to.
 
First off, we'd go get dells ;) But seriously, Ical is an app that people were looking forward to and requires10.2. Reading up on new applications and the immpressions that were given at Macworld Expo(we have people that went) are that more and more apps will be would be requiring 10.2. Jagaur is what the we in the Tech Dept were finally going to consider Upgrading the Macs to OS 10 from 9. 10.2 is an actually really usable OS by the entire school district. I'm not arguing that 10.2 isn't worth $129. I'm arguing that after buying that many 10.1's less then a month ago we should not be "forced" into buying 10.2 upgrades.
 
But using that cd is illigal. Only the computers bought after Mac world expo will be licenced for Mac os 10.2. We here run a legal school, buying legal Licences. We do not want the wrath of Apple nor Microsoft to come down on us.
 
Originally posted by voicegy


I work for a school district and if I were in your situation I would be happy with what I have and go for it. Are you saying you cannot be productive with OS 10.1? Are you saying that without Jaguar you might as well toss all the computers in the junk heap and give up and go get some Gateways?

I honestly just don't get it. To be fair, perhaps I should ask: what in Jaguar do your teachers and students absolutely need in order to be productive in your studies? I'll bet no one would even know the difference nor care...as long as you are running software that fits in the curriculum.
Click to expand...

Well I also work for a school district and I disagree with Apple. Are you the head of your department? Main reason I am asking, throughout the US, budgets are being cut because of enrollment, and less funds coming from the state and federal levels.

As for charging for 10.2, it is a point release. It may have a lot of features in the release, but still is a point release. We just bought 100 licenses of 10.x in June and 20 new iMac's also in June. So technically we don't qualify for a free upgrade. I do believe this is bad on Apple's part as they should have atleast informed us before hand and we would have waited until the 10.2 release was and then ordered.

As for why should we be happy with just 10.1 and not 10.2, well I have been reading a lot that there will be applications that will require 10.2, as you need 10.1 to run a lot of applications that don't work on 10. We currently still run 9, and next year we are looking at switching. We don't have money to fork out every year for a company that decides to do a minor upgrade. And if 10.2 is required for those specific applications, then we can't upgrade either to 10.2. Our district runs the same version of OS on all computers, so we won't just buy the new ones with 10.2 and leave the olds ones at 10.1.

I believe Apple is just being money hungry. As with repairs, most of the iMac's that we send in to get repaired cost atleast $300 to $400. For something that we paid $700 to $800 originally. They have a huge profit margain on the parts and service. They don't need to nickel and dime everybody for everything else.

Thanks,

Corey
 
Originally posted by koltz
I believe Apple is just being money hungry. As with repairs, most of the iMac's that we send in to get repaired cost atleast $300 to $400. For something that we paid $700 to $800 originally. They have a huge profit margain on the parts and service. They don't need to nickel and dime everybody for everything else.
Click to expand...

Apple repair charges a flat rate for systems that are out of warranty... Like those old iMac systems. The pricing is by the system, so it's not the same for the iMac as it is for an iBook or PowerBook or tower.

Didn't you guys get the Applecare plans with the computers??? He have been doing that for about two years now, and it has saved us on more then a few repairs. I for one, am glad I have it on my own home computers, since it has saved me more then it cost for the plan. One repair alone more then pays for the Applecare plan.

BTW, there is NOT a 'huge profit margain' on the parts, and they have to pay the repair tech's to do the work. I have tracked many a repair at Apple, and they spend, on average, three to four hours working on the system. Most computer repair shops charge well over $100/hour for repair work... Most of the parts that they repair/replace are also listed at ~$200-$300 (if not more) and that is to AASP's (with exchange as well). Suddenly a $300-$400 repair doesn't seem all that far out of line... :p
 
Originally posted by AlphaTech


Your computer is NOT too old to run 10.2, you just won't get the speed BOOST from QE. :rolleyes: You guys need to read over the requirements again... Go here, and you will see your TiBook as being able to run 10.2.
Click to expand...

Please Alpha, don't turn this into another flame war.:(

I know perfectly well that my computer will run 10.2, just not QE. Question is: will it be slower on my computer than 10.1.5? I like a lot of the goodies advertised for 10.2 (like GUI navigating a Windows Network).

Point being, I still feel justified in "venting" about a $3500 computer less than a year old, and it is already hitting a "speed bump" with an Apple OS no less.:mad:

I wonder if 10.2 will let me install it on another partition, so I can boot into 10.2 or 10.1.5 or 9.2.2?
 
Originally posted by sturm375


Please Alpha, don't turn this into another flame war.:(

I know perfectly well that my computer will run 10.2, just not QE. Question is: will it be slower on my computer than 10.1.5? I like a lot of the goodies advertised for 10.2 (like GUI navigating a Windows Network).

Point being, I still feel justified in "venting" about a $3500 computer less than a year old, and it is already hitting a "speed bump" with an Apple OS no less.:mad:

I wonder if 10.2 will let me install it on another partition, so I can boot into 10.2 or 10.1.5 or 9.2.2?
Click to expand...

Na, 10.2 will be much faster on your machine than 10.1.5. It will be well worth the upgrade.
 
I doubt 10.2 will be slower than 10.1, even without Quartz Extreme. Everything I've heard from people who've tried the developer releases indicates the opposite.

With regards to purchasing 100s of 10.1 licences just weeks before a MacWorld, and after Job's clearly indicated that a paid-for upgrade wil looming. Hmmm.
 
Originally posted by skyhawk
I agreed with Kettle.
Click to expand...

That wasn't what you did at all. What you did was to attack someone who disagreed with Kettle, calling that person retarded and offering no justification in support of your own position. In your second post, you accused me of being drunk because I disagreed with you, again without giving any indication of why you believe Apple should just GIVE you the 10.2 upgrade.

Everything else about my age, my convictions, my employment status and demands on Apple were completely fabricated.
Click to expand...

Speculated, not fabricated. This is how you're coming across to me. Maybe you have very good reasons for believing that it's wrong for Apple to charge money for OS X. You haven't given any. You've done nothing but hurl hyperbolic invective at those who have a different opinion.

I have made a choice. I choose not to pay for OS X again. Call in whinning, call it disloyal, call it cheap, call it what you like. But know this, neither you nor Janet Reno can make me cough up $130 and I can prove it to you starting now!
Click to expand...

I'm not calling it anything. In fact, if you would reread the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread, you'd see that I don't much care which choice you make. But if you've made your choice and you're satisfied with that choice, what are you complaining about?

And just because it's such an interesting non sequitur, what does Janet Reno have to do with any of this?

If you and others don't like whinning, don't click on a forum that is obviously going to irritate you, unless you enjoy fabricating personallities, instead of writing software like you're supposed to be doing. But I sure hope your opinion of me is positive or I won't be able to sleep! Please All Knowing One, I'll believe in professional wrestling if you want me to! If I would have known before I made a post that it had to be approved by you, I would have never bothered. I got to go, I'm sure I'm missing something for nothing somewhere!
Click to expand...

To turn that around, if you're not interested in discussing and defending your opinion, don't post about it in a discussion forum unless you enjoy making yourself look like a raving lunatic. You don't owe anybody an explanation of your opinion, but on the other hand nobody else is required to accept or respect an opinion you won't even attempt to justify, especially when your only response is unrestrained melodrama and random personal attacks. You're not going to win anybody to your position that way. Of course, there's no reason you should have to, but if you didn't want to persuade us that you were right and we were wrong, then why did you post in the first place?

If you're interested in actually discussing something, I recommend this page as an introduction to some basics of argumentation. I have provided reasons why I feel it's reasonable for Apple to charge for this update. You clearly disagree. I asked a very straightforward question: If Apple doesn't get money from the people who benefit from their work, then who should they get money from? You don't have to answer that question, but if you can do so well, it will be very persuasive.

Or, you know, just scream and call me names some more. Whatever. It's your call.
 
O.K. folks.

Before you decide to invest (or in some cases, NOT to invest) in the new Jaguar OS, why don't you wait until -

1. it hits the stores,
2. gets installed onto various makes of Macs, and
3. the benchtests are released (after all, we will no doubt be inundated with these from the great many people who will undoubtedly trial this OS - an especially good site is www.xlr8yourmac.com)

After that, you can then determine whether or not it would be beneficial to upgrade to 10.2 on your computer. Common sense, really...
 
for the fellow who bought a bunch of liciences for his school dsitrict, this is entirely your fault and not apple's. if you did what a good consumer shoudl ahve done and checked you would have realized that jaguar was months away from coming ut and that there would not be an upgrade path for you. also i highly doubt your story since you are not quoting education prices which indicates to me that you know absolutely nothing about schools in the first place. before you come here and fabricate a story to attack apple with perhaps you should think a little harder because your story is a pos.
 
If anyone bought 100s of copies for a school district they should have purchased directly from Apple using the Apple Volume License Program (1-800-747-7483) or through the Apple Education Program.

If the school qualified for the e-Rate then it's not 130 each for 100s of copies - there is an education rate.

Plus there was an announcement of a 3 yr OS X Maintenance Program (same number) where major upgrades are included for 3 years.

It's not Apple fault that they didn't realize that Jaguar wouldn't be free, Jobs clearly stated it would be a "paid" upgrade during the XServe unveiling - he just failed to mention that the upgrade price would be a full whack payment.
 
What a waste of time.

Pay for it or don't. No one is "forcing" you to do a damn thing.

I paid for my car. No one offered me anything free when the next version came out. I didn't bitch.

For anyone who says 10.1.x is not "finished", it's more finished than XP. Service packs are typically bug fixes. 10.2 adds new features. It's not a Service Pack.

Apple is a business. No one should be surprised they are trying to make money. Their earnings fell short of what was predicted; their profit margin fell; they sold fewer computers than the same quarter a year before. They remain one of the "healthy" computer companies. If Gateway goes away, no one will cry (except maybe the cow). If Apple were to suffer the same fate, many of us would be sad. They need to do what it takes to survive in a lousy economy with a sagging tech market. As much as I would have loved a discount, considering I bought my TiBook fairly recently with 10.1 on it, I would never expect one. When Apple chose to make it a paid upgrade, I figured I had a choice to make.

Do it or don't. Quit whining.

Chris
 
Re: What a waste of time.

Originally posted by chmorley
For anyone who says 10.1.x is not "finished", it's more finished than XP. Service packs are typically bug fixes. 10.2 adds new features. It's not a Service Pack.
Click to expand...

Windows 98 Second Edition (Win98SE) was a FREE upgrade (download). If you wanted a disk, and had purchased 98, you paid for shipping, and MS sent you and upgrade disk.

Service pack don't just fix bugs. The origional release of Windows NT 4.0 had no support for plug and play(pray), nor did it have support for USB. As of NT 4.0 sp6 (I think) it has support for both. The origional release of Win2K didn't have support for firewire. SP2 (I think) added that.

Service packs add featurs, and fix bugs, and are free. They increase efficiency in the OS, just like Jaguar.

Jaguar fufills all the promises that Apple made when they introduced OS X.
 
$49 a pop is what we paid for 150 licences thats at the 100-249 educational voulume licencing agreement. That totals out to be $7350. Yes we knew that Jag was to be out some time in the fall, no real hard evidence when it would be out. School starts in August, Budgets are due far before then. We had to have this ordered and we have to have this software installed before school starts. Our Apple rep has not informed us of any Apple OS X Maintenance Program. You say this is all a fabricated story. Mabye you should learn a bit more about schools. First i work with koltz, check his email. koltz@rrsd.k12.wi.us, still want more proof call 608-994-3747 and ask for Alex Kaltsas (me). Money doesn't grow on trees for school districts, especially in a budget crunch as the educational system is seeing right now We'll gladly buy the Jag upgrade after we just bought all these 10.1 licences but they are just going to have to raise your taxes to pay for it.
 
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